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Satellite Internet
Yahoo Message Number: 58044
As a soon-to-be full-timer, I would like to install satellite internet. After reading the postings of this group, it appears that I must order the components sent to me, and then install them myself.
How difficult would this be for an older woman (73) without help? Are there things I should know that have not been included in the above- mentioned postings? Dependable internet contact is very important to me. How secure are satellite internet messages?

I would appreciate whatever help anyone could give me.

Thanks Jackie Hogan

Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Satellite Internet
Reply #1
Yahoo Message Number: 58046
You might be able to hook a portable unit up by yourself, but I would not even attempt to install a roof-mounted unit.  That would involve several trips up to the roof, drilling holes in the roof, etc.  Leave that type to a much younger person.

Dick

Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Satellite Internet
Reply #2
Yahoo Message Number: 58048
Thanks, Dick. I should have said that it was a portable set-up that I was interested in.

Jackie

Re: Satellite Internet
Reply #3
Yahoo Message Number: 58049
If you're not mechanically proficient and computer savvy, it's better to employ a professional to set up your satellite gear.  The web forum at http://www.datastormusers.com is a great source of information and advice about what satellite service to choose, and what company to use to set up your equipment.

Many technicians in this business are nomadic, traveling between RV gatherings and trade shows, so if you can wait for a few weeks it's likely that one will be passing through your area.

Two-way satellite communications is only one way of maintaining an Internet connection while on the road.  WiFi service has become very common in parks, campgrounds and rest stops. WiFi driectories are available to help you find a WiFi access point (often for free) in towns on your route.  If your computer doesn't have a WiFi networking interface, you can add one for $30 or less.

It's also possible to use your cell phone to link your computer to the Internet.  Contact your cell phone provider for details about the service, and to learn if data service is available using your specific phone. For example, Verizon Wireless offers a Mobile Office Kit that includes software and a cable appropriate for connecting your phone to the computer.  Cingular and Sprint offer similar setups.

How to set up WiFi and cell phone network access used to be pretty specialized knowledge, but today any geeky high school student will know enough to get this service running.
(I have a four year old friend who is learning to spell so she can type in URLs like www.cartoonnetwork.com)

Which service you choose depends on how often you camp in the boondocks (beyond the reach of WiFi and cell phone service), and how often you need and want to use the Internet.  Satellite Internet service is very expensive, but it can get you online just about anywhere from Calgary to Cancun.

--oryoki

Re: Satellite Internet
Reply #4
Yahoo Message Number: 58051
Hi Jackie,

In addition to Oryoki's excellent summation of sat internet vs cell phone or wireless, I want to add that a mobile sat internet setup is most effective when you will stay in one place for more than a couple of days.  It involves some significant assembling of dish, feedhorn, bracket, tripod and cabling every time you set it up and take it down.
Depending on where you store the various parts for travel (for instance our dish is up on the ladder) getting it all out and put together can be tiring.
 Personally, if I traveled alone and moved frequently I would consider shelling out the big bucks for an automatic motosat unit.

Jonna in Tortuga, 2001 Teal RB find us here http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=1013


Re: Satellite Internet
Reply #6
Yahoo Message Number: 58053
No more or less secure than terrestrial Internet.  That is, not secure unless encripted.

best,  paul

Re: Satellite Internet
Reply #7
Yahoo Message Number: 58058
"As a soon-to-be full-timer, I would like to install satellite internet. After reading the postings of this group, it appears that I must order the components sent to me, and then install them myself. How difficult would this be for an older woman (73) without help?"
 If you go with a roof-mounted automatic aiming system (DataStorm/MotoSAT), you must have it installed--you don't want to be hoisting 100 pounds up to the roof by yourself.
 If you choose a tripod-mounted DirecWay system as many of us have, you can set it up yourself, but I'll tell you that putting the dish on top of the tripod is a chore--it is bulky and fairly heavy, a very awkward thing to lift and position on top of a small mounting post while standing on a stepladder. You might find this to be more than you cared to tackle on a regular basis. If you can find somebody near you with a tripod-mount system, I'd suggest trying it out before you make a buying decision.
 If you can get by with less-than-broadband speeds, a cell phone connection might be your best bet, since it's inexpensive, lightweight, and setup is a snap. If you use a Mac, SmithMicro's QuickLink Mobile software (about $35) plus a $30 data cable will get you online quite easily; the software does all the hard work. Hopefully there are equivalent utilities for Windows.

Andy Baird
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"

Re: Satellite Internet
Reply #8
Yahoo Message Number: 58064
Quote
If you're not mechanically proficient and computer savvy, it's better to employ a professional to set up your satellite gear.  The web forum at http://www.datastormusers.com is a great source of information and advice
Thank you Oryoki. I think I'm fairly mechanically proficient and have had computers since 1983, so am fairly proficient there too. I guess I am more worried about the physical aspects - how heavy the components are, and how difficult it is to lift and work with them.

As to WiFi, it is wonderful when available, but on a trip to Tennessee last Fall I seldom stayed at a place that had access. And I wasn't happy with cell phone access as coverage wasn't available in many areas I stayed in. I prefer to stay in state or federal campgrounds, BLM, forest service, and other such places.

Thanks for the website info. I'll check it out.

Jackie

Re: Satellite Internet
Reply #9
Yahoo Message Number: 58065
Quote
The minimum cost of Datastorm service just dropped from $99/month to $80/month, see:

Be sure to check out the speed tests of this new lower cost service late in the thread.
Thanks, Paul. I'll check it out.

Jackie

Re: Satellite Internet
Reply #10
Yahoo Message Number: 58066
Quote
Hi Jackie,

In addition to Oryoki's excellent summation of sat internet vs cell phone or wireless, I want to add that a mobile sat internet setup is most effective when you will stay in one place for more than a couple of days.  It involves some significant assembling of dish, feedhorn, bracket, tripod and cabling every time you set it up and take it
down.
 
Quote
Depending on where you store the various parts for travel (for instance our dish is up on the ladder) getting it all out and put together can be tiring.
 Personally, if I traveled alone and moved frequently I would consider shelling out the big bucks for an automatic motosat unit.
Jonna,
 Thanks! It may involve more work than I want to do each time I set up somewhere. The permanent mounting sounds ideal, however, I'd have to think long and hard about spending so much money. Isn't that the $6000 system? Perhaps if I get frustrated enough I'll consider it. Oh well, I guess I knew it wouldn't be simple.

My remaining furniture will be picked up today, so will be at home from now on in my RV, which is currently at a nearby mobile home park, where I'll stay until escrow closes and various business details are wrapped up. I'll be so glad to get all that over with so I can finally hit the road.

Jackie

Re: Satellite Internet
Reply #11
Yahoo Message Number: 58067
Verizon does offer something similar for Windoze.  It worked fine for us to connect our cell phones to our laptop.  In addition, Verizon acted as our ISP so there was no additional cost for that.

best,  paul

Quote
If you can get by with less-than-broadband speeds, a cell phone
connection might be your
 
Quote
best bet, since it's inexpensive, lightweight, and setup is a snap.
If you use a Mac,
 
Quote
SmithMicro's QuickLink Mobile software (about $35) plus a $30 data
cable will get you online
 
Quote
quite easily; the software does all the hard work. Hopefully there
are equivalent utilities for

Re: Satellite Internet
Reply #12
Yahoo Message Number: 58068
Quote
If you go with a roof-mounted automatic aiming system
(DataStorm/MotoSAT), you must
 
Quote
have it installed--you don't want to be hoisting 100 pounds up to
the roof by yourself.

Quote
If you choose a tripod-mounted DirecWay system as many of us have,
you can set it up
 
Quote
yourself, but I'll tell you that putting the dish on top of the
tripod is a chore--it is bulky and
 
Quote
fairly heavy, a very awkward thing to lift and position on top of
a small mounting post while
 
Quote
standing on a stepladder. You might find this to be more than you
cared to tackle on a
 
Quote
regular basis. If you can find somebody near you with a tripod-
mount system, I'd suggest

Quote
trying it out before you make a buying decision.
Andy,

That sounds scary! The physical difficulty is probably more than I would want to try to deal with, or perhaps more than I can handle.
Your suggestion of finding someone who actually has such a system is a good one. I think I'd better wait (although frustrated and annoyed at the other, not-too-adequate solutions).

Thanks,

Jackie

Re: Satellite Internet
Reply #13
Yahoo Message Number: 58069
"I guess I am more worried about the physical aspects - how heavy the components are, and how difficult it is to lift and work with them."

Jackie, I had a chance to lift Andy's Datastorm dish and I think it would be a daunting task to set it up alone. The weight may not be an issue but the bulkiness makes it very awkward to handle. I'm 62 and my UPS days left me stronger than the average bear, female that is ;-).  Sooner or later I'd end up dropping it or wrenching my back trying to position it on the tripod.

Karen - no more brown in my wardrobe-  and still "stuck" in Jersey

Re: Satellite Internet
Reply #14
Yahoo Message Number: 58072
It may help to compare Jonna's decription of setup with with a tripod mount (Direcway) with my setup with a roof mount (Datastorm).

When I park to sign

Re: Satellite Internet
Reply #15
Yahoo Message Number: 58119
"I think I'm fairly mechanically proficient and have had computers since 1983, so am fairly proficient there too. I guess I am more worried about the physical aspects - how heavy the components are, and how difficult it is to lift and work with them."
 Further to what I wrote recently: the DirecWay dish is indeed bulky and fairly heavy, but I've recently found that wrangling it is a lot easier if I don't set the tripod to its full height.
Of course this violates the "dish must be five feet off the ground so that nobody can stand in front of it for half an hour and cook their brains" rule, but I figure if anyone's dumb enough to do that--on MY campsite!--they deserve what they get. So I take back what I said, at least partly. It's no cinch, but it's doable even if you don't have a lot of physical strength. No stepladder needed this way, either. :-)
 "As to WiFi, it is wonderful when available, but on a trip to Tennessee last Fall I seldom stayed at a place that had access. And I wasn't happy with cell phone access as coverage wasn't available in many areas I stayed in. I prefer to stay in state or federal campgrounds, BLM, forest service, and other such places."
 I'm with you there--I prefer state forests myself. But I find that with a Wilson Trucker external cell phone antenna on the roof, I can almost always get a good enough signal to get online, no matter where I am. The Wilson magnet-mount antennas are only thirty or forty bucks with the needed adapter cable for a particular cell phone, so this is something I recommend every RVer carry.
 Some of you are probably wondering how I attach a magnet-mount antenna to an aluminum roof. The answer is to buy a steel electrical outlet box cover plate at Home Depot for 82¢ and stick it to the roof with Goop. :-) If you want to be fancy, you can paint it white before you put it in place. I put mine on the corner of the roof near the ladder, so that it's easy to climb up and stick the Wilson antenna to it.
 Actually, in many cases the Wilson antenna is usable inside the coach if you stick it to a pizza pan or other steel item--you'll see a definite increase in signal strength. But the roof is best of all.

Andy Baird
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"

Re: Satellite Internet
Reply #16
Yahoo Message Number: 58120
"[The tripod-mount satellite dish] may involve more work than I want to do each time I set up somewhere."
 It takes me lees than half an hour altogether, now that I have the hang of it. (This assumes you have an Align-A-Site aiming device; without it, it may take longer and you will not be able to scout for suitable sites very effectively.) The Dustyfoot tripod system comes with an Align-A-Site included; other sellers (to my knowledge) don't include it, but you can buy it separately for about $150. That makes the Dustyfoot system a better deal, in my humble opinion.
 "The permanent mounting sounds ideal, however, I'd have to think long and hard about spending so much money. Isn't that the $6,000 system? Perhaps if I get frustrated enough I'll consider it."
 Yup, it is the $6,000 system....versus $1,500 for a tripod-mount system. The extra $4,500 buys you a major improvement in convenience and ease of use, as Paul pointed out. I often envy MotoSAT owners.
 However, there is one other tradeoff involved: with a roof-mounted MotoSAT, your choice of where to park is very tightly constrained, because the dish has to be where it can see the satellite--meaning your rig has to be where the *dish* wants to be. In a wooded area, this may be impossible to achieve.
 Off the top of my head I can think of at least five places in the past month or two where I could not possibly have gotten online with a roof-mounted dish, but was able to do so by placing my tripod in just the right spot (determined with the Align-A-Site)...usually near the extreme corner of the site next to the road, where it would not be possible to park because half of the rig would be blocking the road.
 In short, with a tripod-mount dish you have the nuisance of setup...but you also have flexibility of placement that will let you get online in many wooded places where MotoSAT owners cannot. Of course, if all your camping is in desert areas, this is less of a concern.
But if you like to be where the trees are...

Andy Baird
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"

Re: Satellite Internet
Reply #17
Yahoo Message Number: 58141
Quote
Jackie, I had a chance to lift Andy's Datastorm dish and I think it would be a daunting task to set it up alone. The weight may not be an issue but the bulkiness makes it very awkward to handle. I'm 62 and my UPS days left me stronger than the average bear, female that is ;-).  Sooner or later I'd end up dropping it or wrenching my back trying to position it on the tripod.
Thanks, Karen. It doesn't sound like something I'd want to do over and over again, so will struggle along with WiFi and phone until a permanent set up becomes more affordable, or I become too frustrated and give in at the high installation price.

Jackie

Re: Satellite Internet
Reply #18
Yahoo Message Number: 58142
Quote
It may help to compare Jonna's decription of setup with with a tripod mount (Direcway) with my setup with a roof mount (Datastorm).

When I park to signin to an RV Park I power up the modems and positioner.  By the time I come out of the office the positioner has found out where it is via its GPS.  I then drive and park at our camp site.  I then push on the "Search" button on the positioner and go outside to hook up electric and water.  By the time I come back in it's not uncommon to be on the Internet.  Other times when satellites or the network operations center are acting up it takes longer
than 15
 
Quote
minutes and we leave the modems and positioner working and go shopping or whatever and we're on the Internet when we get back.

I've been surprised to hear that many folks don't object to the high initial cost of Datastorm ($5,000) as much as the high cost of monthly service (formerly a minimum of $99/month).  The new lower minimum cost of $80 for even faster service than the slower old $99/month service might give pause to some.

best,  paul
Wow! That sounds wonderful! It's the initial cost that gets to me.
Since I will no longer have two land lines to pay for or other expenses connected with a house, the monthly charge doesn't sound too bad to me.

Jackie

Re: Satellite Internet
Reply #19
Yahoo Message Number: 58148
Quote
Further to what I wrote recently: the DirecWay dish is indeed
bulky and fairly heavy, but
 
Quote
I've recently found that wrangling it is a lot easier if I don't
set the tripod to its full height.
 
Quote
Of course this violates the "dish must be five feet off the ground
so that nobody can stand
 
Quote
in front of it for half an hour and cook their brains" rule, but I
figure if anyone's dumb
 
Quote
enough to do that--on MY campsite!--they deserve what they get. So
I take back what I
 
Quote
said, at least partly. It's no cinch, but it's doable even if you
don't have a lot of physical

Quote
strength. No stepladder needed this way, either. :-)

Some of you are probably wondering how I attach a magnet-mount
antenna to an
 
Quote
aluminum roof. The answer is to buy a steel electrical outlet box
cover plate at Home
 
Quote
Depot for 82¢ and stick it to the roof with Goop. :-) If you want
to be fancy, you can paint
 
Quote
it white before you put it in place. I put mine on the corner of
the roof near the ladder, so
 
Quote
that it's easy to climb up and stick the Wilson antenna to it.

Andy Baird
Andy,

Does the system work as well with the dish at the lower height?

I also put a steel plate on my roof, but positioned it next to the cabover vent/escape hatch, secured it with eterna-bond tape, and ran the wire through the vent. I generally leave the antenna on the roof and it usually stays in place. Using it does help.

Jackie

Re: Satellite Internet
Reply #20
Yahoo Message Number: 58150
Quote
It takes me lees than half an hour altogether, now that I have the
hang of it. (This assumes
 
Quote
you have an Align-A-Site aiming device; without it, it may take
longer and you will not be
 
Quote
able to scout for suitable sites very effectively.) The Dustyfoot
tripod system comes with an

Quote
Align-A-Site included;

However, there is one other tradeoff involved: with a roof-mounted
MotoSAT, your choice
 
Quote
of where to park is very tightly constrained, because the dish has
to be where it can see
 
Quote
the satellite--meaning your rig has to be where the *dish* wants
to be. In a wooded area,

Quote
this may be impossible to achieve.

In short, with a tripod-mount dish you have the nuisance of
setup...but you also have
 
Quote
flexibility of placement that will let you get online in many
wooded places where MotoSAT
 
Quote
owners cannot. Of course, if all your camping is in desert areas,
this is less of a concern.

Quote
But if you like to be where the trees are...
Andy,

Dustyfoot does sound like the system to go with, if I decide to go with a portable system. Since my family is in California, that will be where I spend much of my time even when I no longer have a house here. With so many mountains and trees in the western states that is definitely something I should think about. I'd better wait to digest all the info everyone has supplied before I make a decision. I really appreciate all the help. It really proves the old saying that many heads are better than one.

Jackie

Quote
Andy Baird

Re: Satellite Internet
Reply #21
Yahoo Message Number: 58152
The height issue is to keep humans out of the range of the microwave signal to prevent harm to them.

But from signal strength standpoint it does not matter much if your dish is 22,000 miles from the satellite or 22,000 miles plus 2 feet ;)

best,  paul

Re: Satellite Internet
Reply #22
Yahoo Message Number: 58156
I certainly agree with the Dustyfoot recommendation. He is highly respected at Datastormusers.com for tripod and rooftop systems.
 On trees though, I can't recall a campground where I was not able to get online with my Datastorm.  It's also not very common that trees caused me to have to move my RV around, either within the site I was assigned to or to another one.

In addition, trees are generally more of a problem as your latitude increases (because the antenna shoots closer to the horizon as you move North in latitude).  (Conversely, trees are generally less of a problem as you move South - with the exception of a particularly peverse coconut tree that kept jumping in front of my Datastorm in Teacapan, Mexico as I moved several times :)

While we were at our baby daughter's summer home in UP Michigan we were surrounded by big trees and no one, tripod or roofmount, could get on the Internet.  However, we were able to use our Datastorm antenna to get DirecTV through the trees and see the Tour de France....Good thing, too.  Kathleen would have left for a local motel if I did not get the Tour on.

Moreover, a DatstormUsers.com user developed a map of RV Parks and sites that are Datastorm-user friendly, see: http://satellitefriendly.com/

best,  paul
 PS> I see the cost of a Datastorm installation being quoted at $6,000.
It's still not cheap and it varies from dealer to dealer but the general figure I'm familiar with is $5,000.  If you have any questions, dealers will be happy to give you a specific quote.

Follow the rules regarding satellite internet
Reply #23
Yahoo Message Number: 58159
In a former life, I installed data networking equipment for a living.  I can't let Andy's remarks pass without comment.

"Andy Baird" wrote:

Quote
Of course this violates the "dish must be five feet off the ground so that nobody can stand in front of it for half an hour and cook their brains" rule, but I figure if anyone's dumb enough to do that--on MY campsite!--they deserve what they get.
 and [I avoided trees by] placing my tripod in just the right spot...usually near the extreme corner of the site next to the road
So basically, anyone walking their dog along the road of the campground puts their head directly in the path of the microwaves Andy's Direcway system is transmitting.  Sure, the strength of the signal is not very high, passing birds are in no danger of being vaporized. It's the cumulative effect of the exposure we experience that's the issue.

The FCC has created rules to protect public safety.
The rules include either mounting the dish so (1) the bottom of the dish is at least 5' off the ground, or (2) the dish is surrounded by a barrier that keeps people at least 6 feet away

The Dustyfoot website has a photo of a simple barrier for a tripod system:  http://www.dustyfoot.com/Dish.html

Just putting the tripod within the edges of campsite is not enough to limit microwave exposure. Anybody who has spent time in a campground knows that kids regularly run around and through the campsites, and naturally want to explore new things.

The FCC rules do the public no good if the people using tripod-mounted satellite equipment think they can just ignore them whenever it's not convenient.  Please, if you plan to use satellite equipment, learn the rules regarding its use -- and then follow the rules!  To do otherwise is irresponsible and selfish.

So mount the satellite equipment up as high as possible, and use a barrier to keep unsuspecting people away.

--oryoki

Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Follow the rules regarding satellite
Reply #24
Yahoo Message Number: 58172
On Sun, 2005-09-18 at 17:50 +0000, oryoki2000 wrote:

Quote
In a former life, I installed data networking equipment for a living.  I can't let Andy's remarks pass without comment.

"Andy Baird" wrote:

Of course this violates the "dish must be five feet off the ground so that nobody can stand in front of it for half an hour and cook their brains" rule, but I figure if anyone's dumb enough to do that--on MY campsite!--they deserve what they get.

and

[I avoided trees by] placing my tripod in just the right spot...usually near the extreme corner of the site next to the road
...

Here's a contrary opinion:
 http://hps.org/publicinformation/ate/q3572.html

We are talking about 1 watt of energy spread over several square feet.
Now, let us think about a cell phone next to your ear.  Digital cell phones when transmitting are 0.6 watts, analog cell phones 1.3 watts.
And people yak on those for hours on end.  Do you see the "disconnect"? :)

Alex '05 MB Charlotte, NC