Shorepower at home June 19, 2003, 07:36:45 pm Yahoo Message Number: 23584I've been wondering how to plug in my LD at home. I made my maiden trip to Camping World today, found an adapter that takes the LD plug on one end and puts out a regular 3-prong plug on the other....is this the way? Or do I need a special circuit installed at home? I don't want to blow anything up by trying it!Sue[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Shorepower at home Reply #1 – June 19, 2003, 07:48:00 pm Yahoo Message Number: 23585QuoteI've been wondering how to plug in my LD at home. I made my maiden trip to Camping World today, found an adapter that takes the LD plug on one end and puts out a regular 3-prong plug on the other....is this the way? Or do I need a special circuit installed at home? I don't want to blow anything up by trying it!Sue, That adapter is exactly what you need! Just don't try to turn on the LD air conditioner or other very large electrical loads. For running most of the 12V system in the LD, you won't draw enough 110VAC current to be much of an issue. The worst that might happen, if the home circuit you plug into happens to be heavily used, is that you'll trip one of the house's circuit breakers. We leave our LD plugged into an outet in our garage most of the time it's home. I just watch the batteries and add a little distilled water every 2-3 months.Art
Re: Shorepower at home Reply #2 – June 19, 2003, 08:39:06 pm Yahoo Message Number: 23591QuoteI've been wondering how to plug in my LD at home. I made my maiden trip to Camping World today, found an adapter that takes the LD plug on one end and puts out a regular 3-prong plug on the other....is this the way? Or do I need a special circuit installed at home? I don't want to blow anything up by trying it!Quote Sue Sue, if you want to run the air conditioner, you will need at least a 20A dedicated circuit from your service panel on your house. This would be best too for running a portable electric heater. If all you are using is the 12V appliances and lights, then any wall socket will do.Steve
Shorepower at home Reply #3 – June 20, 2003, 08:41:37 am Yahoo Message Number: 23615I'll confess up front, I'm really stupid about things electrical (or all things mechanical if it comes to that!), but does this mean you use your regular, heavy-duty outdoor extension cord, plugging it into the Camping World adapter and then into an outlet at your house that you know is 20A? How do you know if an outlet IS 20A? (told you I was stupid!!)Leslie MassachusettsQuote Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 00:39:05 -0000 From: aq433 Subject: Re: Shorepower at home
Re: Shorepower at home Reply #4 – June 20, 2003, 09:42:05 am Yahoo Message Number: 23617QuoteI'll confess up front, I'm really stupid about things electrical (or all Quotethings mechanical if it comes to that!), but does this mean you use your regular, heavy-duty outdoor extension cord, plugging it into the Camping World adapter and then into an outlet at your house that you know is 20A? QuoteHow do you know if an outlet IS 20A? (told you I was stupid!!)Leslie Massachusetts Hi Leslie,I'm on the road plugged in at my brother's place in San Angelo, TX. I'm using a 50' 30-amp power cord (Camping World #17301), and a 25' 30-amp power cord (CW #5310), as extensions to the built-in 25' power cord on the LD. I'm plugged in to a 15-amp outlet (a regular household outlet) using a dog-bone adapter, 15 male to 30 female, (CW #18341). All is well except I can't use the microwave or the air conditioner.At home in San Diego I have a dedicated 30-amp circuit put in by an electrician and it doesn't need a dog bone adapter. The outlet accepts the 30-amp "crow's feet" power plug on the end of the LD cord. With that circuit I can run the microwave and the air conditioner.Bob, 2000 LD 26.5' MB
Re: Shorepower at home Reply #5 – June 20, 2003, 09:52:52 am Yahoo Message Number: 23618Quotethings mechanical if it comes to that!), but does this mean you use your regular, heavy-duty outdoor extension cord, plugging it into the Camping World adapter and then into an outlet at your house that you know is 20A?QuoteHow do you know if an outlet IS 20A? It will be safe to assume you have no 20A outlets in your home. If they are the conventional 3-prong socket that you use with your TV or vacuum cleaner, they are 15A. Many lighting circuits - i.e. circuit breakers controlling your overhead room lights - ARE 20A, but the circuit you connect to should be dedicated, i.e. not used for aything else but your LD, while you are using it for that. If you DO intend to run such items as the air conditioner, therefore, and your home service has the capacity to add an additional 20A or 30A circuit, having an electrician wire in a convenient outlet to directly plug in your LD 30A RV-type plug is the best way to go.Steve
Re: Shorepower at home Reply #6 – June 20, 2003, 11:20:57 am Yahoo Message Number: 23620Here's my 2 cents. This isn't that complicated, really The way I thought it worked was that most modern homes have 20 amp circuits (if you look at the breakers there will be "20" stamped on them somewhere), but your house has 15 amp outlets/sockets (the typical 3 prong socket in your wall). Multiple sockets are attached to the circuit. In my garage, I have a 15 amp socket (attached to a 20 amp circuit), attached to my '84 LD through an adapter (like yours) to a 25' 30 amp cable I got at home depot. Originally, my LD had a 15 amp plug on the cord, but this was switched out to a heavier cord by a previous owner, so now I need the adapter.My garage circuit is seperate from the other circuits in the house, so I essentially have a dedicated 20 amp circuit for my LD. It works fine, runs anything I want including the A/C and Microwave. I have a full-time voltage meter in my LD and with the A/C on, the voltage drops from 120 to about 118. If I then turn on the microwave with the A/C going, it drops to about 114 volts. Still in the safe range, but I never run the microwave when I'm plugged in at home anyway.By the way, this did not work with a conventional "heavy duty" extension cord. I had a thick orange cord I used for my power tools and it didn't do the job, voltage would drop below 110 when I'd turn on the A/C with that cord. I verified my garage circuit was dedicated to the garage by flipping breakers and watching what lights went out. I now have all my breakers labelled.One last thing, my '84 originally came with a 15 amp plug on the cord. The old LD's, even with A/C, were apparently designed to work off a 15 amp socket (therefore presumably a lower amp circuit). Maybe, the newer ones aren't like this, I don't know, I also don't know if the newer A/C's draw more or less than the old Coleman on top of mine.Anyway, I did it without hiring an electrician, but I was lucky and have a garage circuit I don't use for anything but my LD.Chuck.
Re: Shorepower at home Reply #7 – June 20, 2003, 02:18:06 pm Yahoo Message Number: 23626QuoteMy garage circuit is seperate from the other circuits in the house, so I essentially have a dedicated 20 amp circuit for my LD. It works fine, runs anything I want including the A/C and Microwave. I have a full-time voltage meter in my LD and with the A/C on, the voltage drops from 120 to about 118. If I then turn on the microwave with the A/C going, it drops to about 114 volts. Still in the safe range It is common for 15A sockets to be connected to 20A circuits, and code requires the wiring be sized to the protection. It is unusual to have one 15A socket dedicated to its own 20A circuit though. This sounds like an 'engineering change' to the original wiring by someone, else why not use a standard 20A socket? They will accept a 15A plug too, since the neutral side is handled with a 'T' that will accept either a parallel or right-angle prong.Quote One last thing, my '84 originally came with a 15 amp plug on the cord. The old LD's, even with A/C, were apparently designed to work off a 15 amp socket (therefore presumably a lower amp circuit). Maybe, the newer ones aren't like this, I don't know, I also don't know if the newer A/C's draw more or less than the old Coleman on Since ours came with air from LD in '83, I only have anecdotal reports, but those say that at one time LDs all came standard with 15A cords and circuits unless air was installed during build - and then came standard with the 30A setup. I would suspect then that yours had the roof air installed after the original build, and the 30A circuit was put in at the same time. This is common. In earlier years, LD downplayed the need for optional air because of the included evaporative cooler, and I suspect many purchased it without but later regretted it.Steve
Re: Shorepower at home Reply #8 – June 20, 2003, 02:41:34 pm Yahoo Message Number: 23628Hey, thanks everyone for the great responses on the power question. I'm finally learning how to use my multimeter...this sounds like a great project for me to practice with it. I was using my multimeter this morning to troubleshoot a battery-powered electric lantern that quit working. I found a lead that had come unsoldered, re-soldered the lead, got a good reading on it once, but then couldn't get another good reading on the leads. I ended up trashing the lantern, but it was a good exercise. I've been a little nervous about sticking the probes into a 120 v socket (funny, coming from the girl that was suspended in Jr. High for sticking foiled gum wrappers in the sockets and blowing out the school, started a fire too). Thanks again for the info!Sue[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Shorepower at home Reply #9 – June 20, 2003, 03:03:32 pm Yahoo Message Number: 23630"Since ours came with air from LD in '83, I only have anecdotal reports, but those say that at one time LDs all came standard with 15A cords and circuits unless air was installed during build - and then came standard with the 30A setup."SteveOur '83 LD did not have a factory A/C. It was added later. It had a 15 amp plug and cord when we bought it. I suffered from a lot of voltage drop when the A/C was operated and the cord got very warm. I eventually replaced it with a 30 amp cord.Larry
Re: Shorepower at home Reply #10 – June 20, 2003, 03:09:03 pm Yahoo Message Number: 23631(funny, coming from the girl that was suspended in Jr. High for sticking foiled gum wrappers in the sockets and blowing out the school, started a fire too). Thanks again for the info!Quote Sue Yikes! Sue, let me first caution you that differentiating between a 15A and 20A circuit is most definitely NOT done with a meter. Checking the circuit breaker marking should be adequate, knowing the wire gauge used in the wall is the good insurance. If you don't feel perfectly comfortable making AC measurements, I would stick to 12V dc ones until your experience builds the confidence. Soldering is a good skill to learn, and practice will improve it. One thing to be aware of, though, is electronic solder comes pre-packages with solder flux. This does a pretty good job of allowing the solder to alloy with and 'flow' into the metals of the joint you are bonding. It will not remove most exides nor clean off exceptionally dirty surfaces. These may need to first be pre-cleaned with a pencil eraser before assembly for joining. The flux is also an insulator, and will typically leave a non-conductive, often clear residue on the surface of the bond that may resist a gentle touch from a test meter probe.Steve
Re: Shorepower at home Reply #11 – June 20, 2003, 03:15:15 pm Yahoo Message Number: 23633QuoteOur '83 LD did not have a factory A/C. It was added later. It had a 15 amp plug and cord when we bought it. I suffered from a lot of voltage drop when the A/C was operated and the cord got very warm. I eventually replaced it with a 30 amp cord.Larry I suspect in most cases add-on air is not done at the factory. I also suspect many aftermarket add-ons would also not bother with adding in the 30A circuit, since that is a job in itself. Some here have said they did take to to LD for the job, though, and the electrical was upgraded at that time.Steve
Re: Shorepower at home Reply #12 – June 20, 2003, 03:21:47 pm Yahoo Message Number: 23634"...It will not remove most exides nor clean off exceptionallyQuotedirty surfaces..." This should of course be 'oxides'. The 'o' is nowhere near the 'e' on the keyboard, so I have no explanation for it. Oxides, of course, occur when oxygen in the air reacts with the surface of metal - e.g. iron oxide (rust) - and they typically resist casual cleaning and are poor conductors.
Re: Shorepower at home Reply #13 – June 20, 2003, 04:18:34 pm Yahoo Message Number: 23637"my '84 originally came with a 15 amp plug on the cord. The old LD's, even with A/C, were apparently designed to work off a 15 amp socket (therefore presumably a lower amp circuit)." Gertie, my 1985 22' twin/king, came with a 15A cord and plug. I had the original swamp cooler (useless in the east where I live) removed and a 13,500 BTU Coleman Mach air conditioner installed, but retained the 15A circuit. The Coleman A/C is a high-efficiency unit that draws only 10.1A, so it's well within the 15A capacity of the cord. Running the microwave oven at the same time would be asking for trouble, though, so I don't do that. Despite this minor drawback, I'm really pleased with my 15A setup, because it means I can plug in anywhere--not just at campgrounds, but at friends' houses--without having to worry about special plugs, adapters or circuits. Like having a 22' rig, having a 15A power system means I can go just about anywhere...and I like that. :-)Andy Baird :-)
Is this the 30 amp setup? (Was Re: Shorepower at home) Reply #14 – June 22, 2003, 09:18:39 pm Yahoo Message Number: 23694Quote(Chuck) My garage circuit is seperate from the other circuits in the house so I essentially have a dedicated 20 amp circuit for my LD...Quote(Steve) It is unusual to have one 15A socket dedicated to its own 20A circuit though....Steve, that would be unusual, what I was trying to say (and apparently not clearly) was that I have a 20A circuit that is dedicated to my garage, I only use 1 of the 5 sockets on the circuit, and that is the one I use to plug into the LD.Quote(Chuck) One last thing, my '84 originally came with a 15 amp plug... Quote(Steve) I would suspect then that yours had the roof air installed after the original build... I bet that is exactly what happened. I love this group it always gets me thinking. My LD has both the swamp cooler and the A/C. I didn't know if I had a 15 or 30 amp setup. When I put the microwave in, I remember looking at the breakers and thinking "that's plenty" but the size didn't stick with me. I just went out and looked, the breakers are both 30A, One is labelled "A/C" the other "110 Recepticles/Refrig". The fuse diagram inside the cover is labelled: 1. 15A Water Pump 2. 15A 12V Cooler 3. 20A Front Coach Lights 4. 20A Front Coach Lights (as needed) 5. 20A Rear Lights 6. 20A Rear Lights (if needed) 7. 20A Monitor Panel/TV Receptacle 8. 30A 12V RefrigI'm hoping this means it has the 30A setup?Chuck.
Is this the 30 amp setup? (Was Re: Shorepower at home) Reply #15 – June 23, 2003, 12:15:42 am Yahoo Message Number: 23697Quotesize didn't stick with me. I just went out and looked, the breakers are both 30A, One is labelled "A/C" the other "110 Recepticles/Refrig". The fuse diagram inside the cover is labelled: Chuck, for what it's worth, my box is a model 6336 and has two 20A breakers and a 30A max rating, which I think is standard. The rating of the dc fuses doesn't count - the total ac consumption of the converter would be less than 4 Amps at full dc load.Steve
Shorepower at home Reply #16 – June 20, 2003, 03:58:04 pm Yahoo Message Number: 23636Thanks Steve!!! Good points! I do some stained glass soldering...but definitely found soldering the leads to be tough...it seemed to require 3 or 4 hands to hold the lead in place and get it fixed. I had trouble with the solder flowing on my first attempt, so I used my gel flux on the 2nd attempt (I was using solder from an electronics-repair kit, not my SG solder). I should have thought to clean stuff up a little first. Also I never realized the flux may have blocked the meter--I was getting good signals from where the lead broke off, then no signal after I fixed it. Hmmm...maybe I should go pull the poor little lantern out of the trash and play around some more...it's really good practice. I will check my circuit box to see what amperage is marked for my garage circuit. I assume once I'm plugged in, then I would use the meter in an LD socket to test for voltage and voltage drop as various appliances are used.
[Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Shorepower at home Reply #17 – June 20, 2003, 04:22:10 pm Yahoo Message Number: 23638QuoteThanks Steve!!! Good points! I do some stained glass soldering...but definitely found soldering the leads to be tough...it seemed to require 3 or 4 hands to hold the lead in place and get it fixedThere are some significant differences when compared to the glass techniques. I was unfamiliar with that, but when Nancy took it up, I was collared to help her through some tough spots, and her instruction was significantly different than what works for electronic connections. She was told to melt the solder, then flow it onto the copper or lead joints, and avoid getting the workpiece or lead too hot. In particular, the lead seemed to melt awfully easily.Two things are particularly important with electronic solder bonds:- The connection must be made and secure mechanically before soldering. You shouldn't have to hold it together to keep the parts connected, wires should be tightly crimped to terminals, etc.- The connection should be heated with a pre-tinned soldering iron tip, and solder applied to the surfaces to be bonded to melt it. It should not be melted by contact with the tool.In some cases you may find the bonding surfaces in such bad shape that you will have to sand, erase, and pre-tin them before making the mechanical connection and soldering together. If the workpieces need some temporary support while you work, don't use metal where it will conduct heat away from the joint - wood sometimes works well.Steve
Soldering technique Reply #18 – June 20, 2003, 07:33:31 pm Yahoo Message Number: 23648"when Nancy took up [stained glass], I was collared to help her through some tough spots, and her instruction was significantly different than what works for electronic connections. She was told to melt the solder, then flow it onto the copper or lead joints, and avoid getting the workpiece or lead too hot. In particular, the lead seemed to melt awfully easily." You're exactly right: the soldering method when doing lead-channel stained glass work is the opposite of good soldering technique for anything else, due to the lead's very low melting point. I did stained glass that way once or twice-- what an almighty pain! Then I discovered the Tiffany (copper foil) method. What a difference! It is at least ten times easier, and very nearly foolproof. First, you DO NOT have to cut your patterns and your glass undersize with special knives or scissors to accommodate the thickness of the lead. You cut exactly to size, then wrap self-adhesive 1/4" copper foil (available from any stained-glass supplies dealer) around the edges of each piece. Lay the pieces next to each other on a board. There's no cutting lead channels to exact length (1/8" too short and you throw it away), carefully mitering the corners, opening up collapsed lead channels, etc. Just assemble the piece like a big jigsaw puzzle. Then brush on liquid acid flux and solder in the normal way you would do any electrical connection: heat the *joint*, not the solder...then flow on enough solder to make a nice smooth, shiny bead. (I know you know this, Steve, but I mention it for the benefit of those who haven't had training in soldering. Besides, this paragraph is my excuse for an otherwise way off-topic post! ;-) The resulting stained glass piece looks exactly like lead-channel work, but is far easier to achieve...and fatal errors (like melting the damn lead by accident) are nonexistent. Any mistakes you make can easily be touched up--the underlying copper won't melt, so there's no risk of ever destroying a joint with too much heat....something that can happen in seconds with lead channel. For the life of me I don't understand why anyone still teaches the lead-channel method, when copper foil has been available for a century or more. Hey, if it was good enough for Louis Comfort Tiffany, it's good enough for me! Tell Nancy to try copper foil next time. I'm willing to bet she'll never go back to the medieval (literally!) torture of working with lead.And now back to our regularly scheduled program...Andy Baird :-)
Re: Soldering technique Reply #19 – June 21, 2003, 01:08:48 am Yahoo Message Number: 23658Quotewas good enough for Louis Comfort Tiffany, it's good enough for me! Tell Nancy to try copper foil next time. I'm willing to bet she'll never go back to theQuotemedieval (literally!) torture of working with lead. Actually, only the first piece she did for class was lead - so far the rest are foil. They still taught her to do it the same way, but you're right - it works fine if I apply the techniques I know, and no danger of melting the copper!Steve
Re: Soldering technique Reply #20 – June 21, 2003, 10:48:02 am Yahoo Message Number: 23670"First, you DO NOT have to cut your patterns and your glass undersize with special knives or scissors to accommodate the thickness of the lead.For the life of me I don't understand why anyone still teaches the lead-channel method, when copper foil has been available for a century or more."AndyDuring my stain glass stage I wondered the same thing. Copper foil windows seem to be stronger because the tape is glued to the glass and they required fewer brace bars on larger windows. The major down side of foil is that the glass must be cut to closer tolerances. The deep groves of lead channel will hide small mistakes better than foil. Buying an electric diamond grinder, for glass, made this whole process much faster and easier.My friend, Howard, owned a stained glass shop for years and taught classes. He preferred lead channel, claiming it was much faster, required much less soldering and cost less in materials. When you are working for a living, time is money. For the record, most of his personal work was done in foil.Larry
Re: Was Soldering technique now Stained Glass Reply #21 – June 21, 2003, 07:56:06 pm Yahoo Message Number: 23676Well Andy, I'll be darned! I'm a pretty fine stained glass artist myself. (Use both copper foil and "Damned melting lead" techniques, plus a variety of mosaic stuff to boot.)Now I am really dashed - I thought I knew SOMETHING you didn't! Are you a master gardener too?Sorry this is so off topic...Linda
Re: Stained glass Reply #22 – June 22, 2003, 11:31:19 am Yahoo Message Number: 23681"I thought I knew SOMETHING you didn't! Are you a master gardener too?" Not a chance! My apartment is like a hospice for plants: they come here to die. ;-)Andy Baird :-)
Was: Stained Glass, Now: only 1 Andy Baird? Reply #23 – June 22, 2003, 01:17:29 pm Yahoo Message Number: 23685Linda wrote: . . . Now I am really dashed - I thought I knew SOMETHING you (Andy Baird) didn't! Are you a master gardener too? . . .Linda - this just adds to the evidence I've been collecting for the past three plus years. I have contacted the east-coast branch of the FBI, CIA, Columbo and James Bond. I don't believe for one minute that there is just one Andy Baird. I think there's a whole bunch of people in a room somewhere in NJ who just monitor this list. For openers, there's an architect, cabinet maker, electrical engineer, geologist, historian, web-master, computer guru, artist, historian, mechanic, technical writer, philosopher, interior designer, plumber, photographer, journalist/writer, etceteras all of whom are probably enlightened, as you can never get a hostile or short-tempered response from any of themThe jig's up Andy - your cover's been blown - - -Sarah[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shorepower at home Reply #24 – June 20, 2003, 04:45:46 pm Yahoo Message Number: 23640QuoteI've been wondering how to plug in my LD at home. I made my maiden trip to Camping World today, found an adapter that takes the LD plug on one end and puts out a regular 3-prong plug on the other....is this the way? Or do I need a special circuit installed at home? I don't want to blow anything up by trying it! You can use the plug adapter to plug in your RV, but you should avoid using the A/C with that arrangement. I suggest that you have a dedicated 30 amp line installed from your switch box. I did that, and it was not too expensive. A more costly consideration is getting a dump station installed where you park your LD. I haven't done that, yet, but I am considering it.Allen
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