Questions for mylazydaze February 05, 2001, 07:23:22 pm Yahoo Message Number: 1871Could you tell why you chose to buy LD after owning a Born Free? Did you have problems with the BF? Other than price and aluminum vs fiberglass, what do you see as the main differences between the two? How would you compare quality of materials and construction? Thanks for any input.
Questions for mylazydaze Reply #1 – February 05, 2001, 10:36:37 pm Yahoo Message Number: 1874I have never owned a Born Free, but I'll tell you why I didn't buy one after comparing the two very carefully before deciding. #1 - LD has a much more spacious feeling inside; the BF feels cramped. #2 - I couldn't justify in any way the $20K price difference that the BF cost, after you add the options that come standard on the LD. #3 - I noticed that used BF's advertised in the paper seemed to stay in there for weeks, i.e., hard to sell. The used LD's always seemed to go in a very few days. On the positive side, I think their construction is very comparable, and very high quality.Jerry 26.5 MB
Questions for mylazydaze Reply #2 – February 05, 2001, 11:31:48 pm Yahoo Message Number: 1875I really need to be asked more specific questions in order to be concise in an Email message.There are many reasons for our purchase choice, including personal experience, price, handling, weight, balance, etc, etc. It would be better if you could give me some specifics on the things you are interested in most. Aluminum vs fiberglas made no difference to me. Each has it pros and cons. I wax our units at least twice each year, so the Born Free looked as good as new when it left us. I used high carnuba content boat wax, and occasionally a boat wax cleaner. Gloss dull out on the gelcoat was not a problem. On the other hand, the Imron type paint used on the Lazy Daze has at least a ten year life with high gloss if cared for, so that is not a problem either.The materials used by these two manufacturers is different and each uses high quality materials of thier own type - but again, the types of materials is not all the same between the two manufacturers.Construction quality, that is the execution of the individual manufacturer's designs, appears similar in the current manufacture. I have been through both plants - several times at Born Free and once at Lazy Daze. The designs are not at all the same between Born Free and Lazy Daze.So, you can see that my answers can seem kind of silly when they are so general. Details, I can try to handle "more bettter".Lastly, we chose to buy the Lazy Daze for a multitude of reasons. Among these were outstanding coach design weight management with its resultant effect on driveability, exceptional thoughtfulness in the design of features and build execution, an unsurpassed reputation openly expressed by Lazy Daze owners (Have you heard of a used Born Free owners group?) and many, many other detailed items.I'd be happy to answer any specific questions.Don McGYes, I had problems with the Born Free during the three years we owned it. The differences between the two are those
Questions for mylazydaze Reply #3 – February 06, 2001, 06:17:55 am Yahoo Message Number: 1876Thanks Don, for your continuing help with info. How about the Cabinets including doors and latches? And furniture, would you say they are comparable? The flexsteel in the BF looked & felt very nice. Is the generator quieter inside BF or LD? How about external storage? Were the problems with your BF related to chassis, appliances, or to the coach itself? Any comments on the rear airbags of the BF? My main concerns with BF are no spare tire, no insulation in floor other than carpet & pad, and of course, the price. My main concern (so far) with LD is distance from the factory and silly California tax laws for delivery. Regarding your comment about balance, I take it that you feel the LD drives better?
Questions for mylazydaze Reply #4 – February 06, 2001, 06:17:55 am Yahoo Message Number: 1877Thanks Don, for your continuing help with info. How about the Cabinets including doors and latches? And furniture, would you say they are comparable? The flexsteel in the BF looked & felt very nice. Is the generator quieter inside BF or LD? How about external storage? Were the problems with your BF related to chassis, appliances, or to the coach itself? Any comments on the rear airbags of the BF? My main concerns with BF are no spare tire, no insulation in floor other than carpet & pad, and of course, the price. My main concern (so far) with LD is distance from the factory and silly California tax laws for delivery. Regarding your comment about balance, I take it that you feel the LD drives better?
Questions for mylazydaze Reply #5 – February 06, 2001, 06:04:09 pm Yahoo Message Number: 1888I had exactly the same impression of the Isatas. They feel like they are missing the comfortable nuances of the LD; they cost $20 or 30K more (who knows, they play the car salesperson tricks).The Isata had nice (real) paint-grade woodwork and small, useless compartments.bob phillips
Questions for mylazydaze Reply #6 – February 06, 2001, 07:48:30 pm Yahoo Message Number: 1892The cabinets are of noticeably heavier oak construction in earlier Born Free units. Later Born Free units have slightly lighter oak cabinets. The oak lavatory door on our Born free weighed almost 40 pounds. That is a bit overdone in my opinion. The Born Free seemed quite top heavy in comparison to our Lazy Daze. The cabinet latches on our Born Free broke regularly until we installed Bilstein shock absorbers on the Ford chassis. We broke as many as six on one trip before that. Born Free changed the latch design in about 1997 to a more positive latch but some of those also broke for some customers. The hinges on the overhead Born Free cabinets are of articulated design and are used to keep the doors open. We literally wore out one door hinge in three years of use. The Lazy daze hinges are simple, very durable and the struts seem to do a good job of holding the overhead cabinet doors open. The Lazy daze panels and overhead cabinet doors are well designed and nicely built - nothing flimsy about them but not overly heavy. We believe ours will easily last the life of the vehicle.The Born Free furniture is usually made by FlexSteel. The flexsteel Jacknife or Easy Bed couch makes into the most uncomfortable sleeping unit I have ever experienced. The Born Free foam couches are more comfortable than the Flexsteel couche beds but nothing in comparison to the multi density foam used in the Lazy Daze. There is real comfort. The two Flexsteel van chairs bolted to the floor in the living area both swivel and recline and are very comfortablebut take up a lot of valuable space without providing any storage spaces. THe Lazy Daze dinette is both very comfortable and provides lots of storage space, and a comfortable bed conversion with its multi-density foam cushions.I'll cover the rest in another reply, as we now have to leave to pick up our daughter.Don McG
Questions for mylazydaze Reply #7 – February 07, 2001, 01:35:03 pm Yahoo Message Number: 1896Here is part one of the concluding reply to your query: Concluding cabinets: Cabinets in our Born Free were functional. Cabinets in our Lazy Daze have designed-in extras that make them more than just functional - they are easier to use and more tuned to the user's needs. You need to look at these units yourself to see the differences.Concluding Flexsteel: The driver's and passenger's cab seats seem a bit wider in the Lazy Daze than do the Flexsteel van seats in our Born Free. However, either is comfortable enough for us to travel 400 freeway miles in a day.The generator is quieter to us in our Lazy Daze and seems to transfer less heat and vibration into the coach through the floor. However, this is not such a big deal unless you plan a lot of generator use. In our case, we struggle to remember that our generator should be run the recommended time under load each month. I believe the difference in noise and heat transfer may be the Lazy Daze floor insulation. Our Born Free appeared to have no special floor insulation.External Storage. There appears to me to be much more external storage on the Lazy Daze. For example, the only way a spare tire could be carried on our Born Free was on a bumper mount or (not recommended)on the roof. On our Lazy Daze, it can be carried in part of one external compartment. External under floor storage compartments seem scarce on Born Free in comparison to Lazy Daze. You just have to see these units for yourself to realize the differences!Our Problems. Essentially all our problems were with the Born Free coach itself. It is only fair to say that in our conversations with other Born Free owners at conventions, some had had similar problems and some had had no problems at all.Don
Questions for mylazydaze Reply #8 – February 07, 2001, 01:37:43 pm Yahoo Message Number: 1897Part two of concluding reply: Rear Air Bags. My comments are that they are a "crutch" for a less than perfect match of coach weight and balance to an RV chassis. They certainly work in reducing cornering "lean" and rear "sag", but they also stiffen up the rear ride. You do not notice this when test driving a lightly or unloaded new coach but you will when travelling down a bumpy freeway or secondary roads with a full load. The air bage have an allowable leak down rate, so they need occasional checking and occasional pumping up to the recommended pressure. Without Bilsteins or Steer Safe, our new Born Free was a real handful to drive on rutted freeways or rolling, curved secondary roads. After adding those features, it drove very nicely. The ride, though, was still quite harsh in the rear. Our Lazy Daze has the Bilstein option and handles and rides noticeable better than our Born Free did after the mods. Even so, I will probably install Steer Safe for the added protection in case of a tire blowout. I highly recommend you visit the factory of whatever make you order, just for your own peace of mind. There is no substitute for first hand looking at and being inside each of the models and floor plans to guide your decision. Lazy Daze has each floor plan coach in their showroom. Last time I was at Born Free, they also had each floor plan available. We did not find any difficulty with the California tax law. We paid Lazy Daze in advance by bank transfer, then they sent us the necessary sales paperwork by overnight UPS, we took that to our state licensing department, paid the difference between CA sales tax and our state sales tax, bought our license and established title in our name. Then when we arrived at Lazy Daze, they installed our state license plates as part of the delivery process. Essentially, when we bought our Born Free, we used the same prepayment process and brought our license plates with us when we picked up our unit. Basically, you need to do the research with your state's license / revenue departments and choose the best way for you to handle the purchase. I know I would not let the CA sales tax stop me from buying the unit I wanted. We trusted Lazy Daze enough to prepay the coach price. They performed to our best expectations. Our new coach was excellently built and prepared for delivery, under cover and waiting alongside were the two packages of supplies that we had sent ahead. The one small item we noticed during walkthrough was corrected within 15 minutes, while we finished our delivery training on the operating features of our new Lazy Daze. They have our highest recommendations!! One more part follows Don
Questions for mylazydaze Reply #9 – February 07, 2001, 01:39:37 pm Yahoo Message Number: 1898Last part of concluding replyBalance. The Lazy Daze appears to me to have better basic balance in the location of heavy items and in the basic coach structural design. On Spare Tires, we did not have one on our Born Free - our one slow leak occurred when in our secured storage parking. A bunper mounted spare tire can be ordered on a new Born Free or by retrofit of a bumper bracket on an existing Born Free by contacting their service department. We depended on the Ford 3 year, 36,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty and sold our unit when about three years old. Pricing, I'll leave to your judgement. Suffice it to say that we found Lazy Daze offered much better value. Miscellaneous Item. The most popular Born Free for many years has appeared to be the 24 ft rear bath. The sleeping areas are the cab overhead and the couch(es). The best chassis for this unit in my opinion is the E-450, 14,005 LB MVGW and not the E-350, 11,500 lb MVGW. I have not recently checked to see what chassis is basic to this unit. Summary. To me, these two companies make units that are significantly different in price, detailed feature design, interior space, internal and external storage and to a lessor degree, in external size. While my wife and I, our small corgi and old cat were all on speaking terms after a 16 state, six week tour in our Born Free, there is no way we would have tried to live in it. Our Lazy Daze is a different catagory and we would not hesitate to live it it for a six month extended travel time. While many people may "move down" from a diesel pusher to a Born Free, we feel we "moved up" from a Born Free to a Lazy Daze. Hope this answers your questions, Don
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