Black Tanks (& grey) - sensors March 16, 2003, 10:21:55 am Yahoo Message Number: 19909I've seen references to the sensors clogging up on both of these, but in searching the archives I didn't see much obvious about how to clean.The LD manual mentions Simple Green for the grey tank - can that also be used in the black tank? Will it work? I did read through http://phrannie.org/macerator.html to get a better idea of how to handle blank tanks. Does the ice & Dawn or Joy trick actually work? (Also, is that a good idea for the grey tank as well?) He basically indicates that the ice rubbing around in the tank (while you're driving) will help clean things up.For the fresh water tanks - how well does the the Chlorine sol'n then the vinegar, mentioned in the LD manual work? My goal here is to get Kitty (my recently purchased 2000 LD 26.5 MB) as clean as possible (although she already seems quite clean) before I start travelling with her. She doesn't have any smell at the moment, but her sensors (both black and grey) don't register accurately.Thanks in advance....Terri 2000 LD 26.5 MB
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Black Tanks (& grey) - sensors Reply #1 – March 17, 2003, 07:29:00 pm Yahoo Message Number: 19958Terry wrote: (snip) - - - but her sensors (both black and grey) don't register accurately. - - -Terry, try this sometime: Empty the black tank Add a few gallons of water Turn off the water pump Add 3-4-5 bags of cracked ice (be sure to bang the bag some so it will be all loose and not in big chunks. The goal is to get all the ice down the toilet into the black tank. You might need to use a broom handle or something to 'encourage' the ice (Optional) Add a few cups of ice-cream salt (it keeps the ice frozen a bit longer) Drive the RV around for 20-30 minutesThis scours the paper and stuff off the sensors.If it's still not clean, do it again.I don't know what to tell you about the gray tank.Sarah and Mz. Daisy in AZ[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Black Tanks (& grey) - sensors Reply #2 – March 18, 2003, 11:59:15 am Yahoo Message Number: 19978"The LD manual mentions Simple Green for the grey tank - can that also be used in the black tank? Will it work?"I can't say for sure but it should work and since the LD manual recommends it I would say that the Newtons use this method themselves and that's why they recommend it. Simple Green is a good cleaner and environmentally friendly so you could try it. If you fill the tanks and add almost any of the bacterial enzyme type products and let it sit for at least a day and then drive to a dump station and dump and rinse the tank that will often be all that is needed to clean the sensors. I know several people that also use vinegar only in both tanks to control odor and keep the tanks and sensors clean. They claim that 1 cup of vinegar is all that is needed and within 24hrs all toilet paper and other solids are reduced to liquid. Vinegar contains a lot of enzymes especially apple cider vinegar, distilled white also has a lot because the enzymes aren't harmed by distillation. Although vinegar is a sanitizing agent that can kill many bacteria it also has many enzymes that break down solids. It is the enzymes produced by the beneficial bacteria in the bacterial enzyme tank products that actually do the work so use of vinegar has merit. When I run out of my tank product I plan to test it out myself. Vinegar is much cheaper and has a lot more uses!"Does the ice & Dawn or Joy trick actually work? (Also, is that a good idea for the grey tank as well?" Again I know a lot of people that use this method and swear by it but I've never needed to try it. Good tank flushing and use of the enzyme products is the best way to avoid the problem from the start. Since you have bought used once you get the sensors clean if you practice good tank maintenance you shouldn't have to worry about it anymore. I've only had the sensors in various RVs not work properly a few times and always after I had to dump at a dump station where I couldn't rinse the tanks out well for various reasons. Normally if that happens I fill the tanks with water and drive several miles and then dump and they again work fine."For the fresh water tanks - how well does the Chlorine sol'n then the vinegar, mentioned in the LD manual work?"It works great! You don't need to use 1/2c bleach to 1gl water for every 15gls of tank/heater capacity as the manual states though, 1/4c is all that is really needed. Bleach can make plastic pipes brittle and deteriorate rubber seals; more is not better! Using vinegar is better than using baking soda for removing the bleach odor and taste without adding one of its own. Baking soda will leave a residue and vinegar won't because it is a rinsing agent among all its many other good properties. Baking soda can also add a foul taste of its own and it can persist for a long time because of the residue in the pipes it leaves. If you use vinegar in the pipes after having used baking soda the reaction of the two will release CO and it also cleans it out quite well. Below is the tech tip from Motor Home magazine for tank flushing.Flush Out Freshwater Tanks - 04/08/2002 When taking a motorhome out of storage, flush the freshwater tank. Add a quarter cup of household bleach for each 15 gallons of capacity. Fill the tank almost to capacity, leaving room for sloshing. Drive the coach to mix the bleach. Run the hot water to get the bleach through the water heater. Drain the freshwater tank. Refill, along with a quarter cup of baking soda per 15 gallons. Drive to mix, run the hot water, drain and refill with fresh water.One thing I recommend you have done is to get the brake fluid changed. It may not have ever been done and should be done every 2- 3yrs max to avoid boiling the brake fluid and losing your brakes. This is more important on heavy vehicles than cars but should be done with all vehicles. It is in this months MH tips on the Motor Home magazine website, see link below. http://www.motorhomemagazine.com/mhtips/index.cfm?month=3&year=2003Good luck with your "new to you" LD!Mike
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Black Tanks (& grey) - sensors Reply #3 – March 18, 2003, 06:23:23 pm Yahoo Message Number: 19990Sarah,I hate to disagree, but while the salt may do all sorts of good things, I do not think it will not keep the ice frozen longer.
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Black Tanks (& grey) - sensors Reply #4 – March 18, 2003, 08:29:42 pm Yahoo Message Number: 20003Barry wrote: (snip) - - I hate to disagree, but while the salt may do all sorts of good things, I do not think it will not keep the ice frozen longer. - - Well, you're sure right Barry - I don't know where my mind went. Thanks for the correction, plus the comment about the environment. The salt thing is a bad idea.Sarah ~^_^~[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Black Tanks (& grey) - sensors Reply #5 – March 16, 2003, 05:00:04 pm Yahoo Message Number: 19918I have been having some trouble with the sensor in my grey tank, but I have found that a wand connected to a hose at the dump station does an excellent job of cleaning the black water tank. My wife washes it thouroughly whenever we have a water hydrant available at our dump site. (about 80% of thge time)Allen
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Black Tanks (& grey) - sensors Reply #6 – March 18, 2003, 06:31:49 pm Yahoo Message Number: 19991Barry,I know it sounds funny, but salt does help ice stay cold. I don't remember where I learned that fact, but it's true. Salt can heat up and chill ice. It's one of those crazy chemistry things. I'm sure someone can explain why that is.-Victor p.s. - salt is still used a great deal on sidewalks around Colorado. Even businesses use it.
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Black Tanks (& grey) - sensors Reply #7 – March 18, 2003, 06:48:41 pm Yahoo Message Number: 19993OK Victor, We may be about to start one of those 'interesting discussions' (read disagreements) of which the LD group is fortunate not to have very many.While salt will make an ice/water/salt mixture colder than a pla
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Black Tanks (& grey) - sensors Reply #8 – March 18, 2003, 07:01:48 pm Yahoo Message Number: 19995Quote From: Barry Barnes To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Black Tanks (& grey) - sensorsOK Victor, We may be about to start one of those 'interesting discussions' (read disagreements) of which the LD group is fortunate not to have very many. Barry - added by RSRWe can nip this one in the bud if we all check the following site: www.wcssience.com/saltandfreezing/ofwater.html.Ron ">lifewithalazydazerv-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: wcssience web site Reply #9 – March 19, 2003, 07:56:49 am Yahoo Message Number: 20019Ron, That is a great site that I've never seen before. Thanks for the link.Charles.
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Black Tanks (& grey) - sensors Reply #10 – March 19, 2003, 08:37:03 am Yahoo Message Number: 20021Ron,Thanks.The link given was missing a c
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Black Tanks (& grey) - sensors Reply #11 – March 19, 2003, 04:00:13 pm Yahoo Message Number: 20034Barry,Thanks for explanation. I'm still young (relatively) and impressionable, so when I get corrected, it's no big deal. There is a lot of knowledge out there that I have yet to acquire. I was just going off what I learned a long time ago. Perhaps it wasn't explained very well at the time, or I wasn't paying attention. :-)Ron, Thanks for the link.-Victor
Re: Salt and ice Reply #12 – March 19, 2003, 06:19:11 pm Yahoo Message Number: 20039"In my understanding, the ice itself melts faster when you add the salt." Exactly correct. That's why we put salt on icy sidewalks--not to keep them frozen, but to melt them. Adding salt to the tank along with the ice will achieve the opposite effect from what you want, if your purpose is to keep the ice frozen so it will grind the crud off the sensors.Andy Baird :-)
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Black Tanks (& grey) - sensors Reply #13 – March 19, 2003, 07:05:23 pm Yahoo Message Number: 20047Victor,No problem. Thanks to Ron, we were 'nipped in the bud' before we could do any damage by discussing at length. I was being pendantic to bring my objection up, but as a one-time professor, it is difficult to let slightly incorrect information in the field of physics slide by.Now back to LDs.Barry 26.5 RB Texas
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Black Tanks (& grey) - sensors Reply #14 – March 19, 2003, 07:28:39 pm Yahoo Message Number: 20049Quote From: Barry Barnes To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 6:05 PM Subject: Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Black Tanks (& grey) - sensorsVictor,No problem. Thanks to Ron, we were 'nipped in the bud' before we could do any damage by discussing at length. I was being pendantic to bring my objection up, but as a one-time professor, it is difficult to let slightly incorrect information in the field of physics slide by.Now back to LDs.Barry 26.5 RB TexasTouche'!Ron ">lifewithalazydazerv-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Black Tanks (& grey) - sensors Reply #15 – March 20, 2003, 06:33:22 pm Yahoo Message Number: 20070QuoteBarry,I know it sounds funny, but salt does help ice stay cold. I don't Quoteremember where I learned that fact, but it's true. Salt can heat up and Quotechill ice. It's one of those crazy chemistry things. I'm sure someone canQuoteexplain why that is.-Victor If you have an old White Mountain ice cream freezer you can see this principle at work. To freeze the cream mixture you pack ice and salt around the metal mixing container (and crank like crazy for about 45 minutes or until your arm gives out). The reason for salt is a saline solution freezes at a lower temperature than water. How much lower depends on the ratio of salt to water. The resulting brine becomes super-cooled as it envelopes the mixing container, causing the mixture inside to freeze. Similarly, applying salt to roads and sidewalks melts ice because the presence of salt reduces freezing temperatures below ambient atmospheric levels and you are left with liquid on the surfaces instead of ice.
Re: Black Tanks (& grey) - sensors Reply #16 – March 23, 2003, 02:37:48 pm Yahoo Message Number: 20142Quote from: Sanchez, Victor"Barry,I know it sounds funny, but salt does help ice stay cold. I don't remember where I learned that fact, but it's true. Salt can heat up and chill ice. It's one of those crazy chemistry things. I'm sure someone can explain why that is.-VictorIf you have an old White Mountain ice cream freezer you can see this principle at work. To freeze the cream mixture you pack ice and salt around the metal mixing container (and crank like crazy for about 45 minutes or until your arm gives out). The reason for salt is a saline solution freezes at a lower temperature than water. How much lower depends on the ratio of salt to water. The resulting brine becomes super-cooled as it envelopes the mixing container, causing the mixture inside to freeze. Similarly, applying salt to roads and sidewalks melts ice because the presence of salt reduces freezing temperatures below ambient atmospheric levels and you are left with liquid on the surfaces instead of ice. Here's two more cents about ice and salt. What happens is that water plus salt freezes at a lower temperature than pure H2O, so the ice starts to melt. The temperature of the brine does not fall (!), but the melting process absorbs *heat* (the specific heat of fusion). That heat is supplied by the cream and sugar mix, which started out a lot warmer than the brine. The water part of the recipe starts to freeze and the arm exercise keeps the crystals in the cream nicely broken up so the ice cream is smooth.John -- whose physics degree is making me hungry....
Topic: Black Tanks (& grey) - sensors (Read 19 times)
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Topic: Black Tanks (& grey) - sensors (Read 19 times)
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