LD Box Awning Revisited March 14, 2003, 01:12:29 am Yahoo Message Number: 19842Interesting, Very Interesting, as Artie would say.To clear up some of my comments - The A & E 8K & 9K series awnings cost more and are worth the cost in functionality and safety. The above A & E Awnings adjust for less than the full 8 ft extension - We did that many times in narrow camping spaces with full control and safety under breezy conditions. We've found our box awning less than safe to put away after the wind comes up because we had to DISCONNECT the side supports from the body and stow them on the outer awning rail. While we are doing that, the extended box awning is unsupported -- Wheeee...... Maintenance? In three years use with the A & E 8K series, all we did was wash the awning material once a year. NO rail or slide or anything else maintenance was required (Though I did include the awning metal in the twice yearly treatment with Protect-All. (We have since switched to 303 Protectant.) When we sold the BF, the awning looked and worked perfectly.A & E hard to deploy? Really now! Look at the A & E two step and one step models for real ease in deployment and retraction. (Now how did that box awning crank get stowed in that compartment under the lawn chairs and outdoor carpet.......)Box Awning advantage - Well, it sure is a lot easier to remove from the motorhome...... Then there is that nice little gap between the box awning and the side of the motorhome that the fog runs down.. (Can't put it up in rain, you know...)Yours for Windless Days, Don McG
Re: LD Box Awning Revisited Reply #1 – March 14, 2003, 09:36:26 am Yahoo Message Number: 19848QuoteInteresting, Very Interesting, as Artie would say.Box Awning advantage - Well, it sure is a lot easier to remove from the motorhome...... Then there is that nice little gap between the box awning and the side of the motorhome that the fog runs down.. (Can't put it up in rain, you know...)Yours for Windless Days, Don McG Don, You should get a new awning! A new one would be about 1% of the cost of a new LD (or a few tanks of gas at the rate things are going) and you could likely sell the old one on E-Bay for about half that amount. You have many good points. My only disagreement with you is characterizing the stock awning, and by implication LD, as cheap. It's not. If LD wanted cheap they would have either left it off or used one of the truly cheap low end roll-up style awnings. I think a fair assessment would be that the two types are different, with different advantages/disadvantages. You've done a great job of explaining the advantages of traditional awnings and others the advantages of the box awning that LD uses. Let us know how the switch goes, particularly the location of anchor points for the feet of the side supports. Some of us may eventually want to follow suit. By the way, I think A&E sells a rubber strip of some sort to seal the gap between the Horizon awning and the motorhome.Terry Palo Alto
Re: LD Box Awning Revisited Reply #2 – March 14, 2003, 10:48:46 am Yahoo Message Number: 19852QuoteInteresting, Very Interesting, as Artie would say.To clear up some of my comments -The A & E 8K & 9K series awnings cost more and are worth the cost in functionality and safety. I can't comment on the current awning LD uses, but our '83 uses the stock 'Capri' model from A&E. This is presumably what you refer to as a box awning.I have compared it to other awnings while idling away time in cg's, and it certainly is easier to deploy and stow than 90% of the other awnings out there, and seems higher quality too. Generally, I can deploy the awning, including the struts, faster than any of my competitors. If I leave the struts pre-deployed - which is as easy as with any non-box model, I can extend it in half the time, with no elevation in heartrate. I've never been bested. Motors and gizmos would just slow you down.What I really like about it, though, is the solid eave, which has a built-in rain gutter. Rain is channelled off the ends, instead of dripping off the front edge, where wind can whip it around. As Mike said, it's nice too to be able to stow the entire mechanism, where it won't contribute to noise and visibility issues while on long drives.This all may not apply to new models, but might be of passing interest to those shopping for older models.Steve
Re: LD Box Awning Revisited Reply #3 – March 15, 2003, 09:02:11 am Yahoo Message Number: 19878Don, Let me clear up some things for you as well. The A&E 8500 is listed at a very slightly higher in price in the old CW 2002 master catalog than the Horizon box awning if you are pricing the one with aluminum weather shield but is only a $27 more in the 14' size than the Horizon 14' 9" awning if you're a PC member. It is cheaper when pricing it with the more common vinyl shield that most people get. In fact if you look at the 9000 series that is a more expensive awning and in my opinion A&E's best with a better woven acrylic material and standard with aluminum shield you can get them for the same price as the 8500 model at CW if buy it from Campers Choice and the 8500 is cheaper than the Horizon by $150. CW will match competitors prices so even if purchased at CW you can buy the 8500 awning cheaper than the Horizon and the "top of the line" 9000 model for only $27 more. I couldn't find a lower cost on the Horizon/Fiamma awning than the PC price from CW in the 2002 catalog.It is true that with most awnings you don't need to fully extend them. I thought you complained though that the 1' difference in fully extended size was a problem for you and made the box awning useless in many cases so it should be a moot point. But let's look at a situation that happened with me all too often with a longer awning. On several occasions it was not even deployable because the awning was too long for the clear area in the campsite. It could have been extended only about 2' or less. A shorter awning would have been able to be fully extended and fit between the obstructions! This happened on numerous occassions due to where we camped. The campsite was wide enough to get into and had adequate room but at the front or rear or both there was an obstruction close to the RV. The center of the site had a nice clearing but trees or branches of trees or other obstructions on either end made it impossible to extend the long awning more than a foot or two and therefore worthless. A shorter awning would have allowed a full extension and it often would have come in handy either for rain or sun protection depending on the day. I've never had an unsafe experience with the Horizon awning. You can leave the side arms attached and retract the awning just like the other A&E awnings or those of other mfgs if needed in windy conditions if you use the right trick as previously mentioned by another poster. You just need to remove them prior to completely stowing or leave them and the awning out the few inches without worry of damage to it and easier deployment when the wind abates. I've had my awning out often in breezy conditions with no problems and in some very breezy ones also. In higher winds using tie-downs awnings can still be used without problems regardless of type. In very high winds no awning should be used regardless of type.Talking about unsupported, that is another issue with the exposed roller type awnings. They are unsupported in the middle when stowed for travel unless you buy the aftermarket supports for them. Without them they bounce and can damage or chafe the RV sides as they do that. Of course with the shorter ones it may be less of a problem but with the long ones it certainly is. I know because the aluminum sided trailer the awning was on I learned the hard way. Not all aluminum sided RVs have plywood under the aluminum either! In fact on many, I'd even say most, the thin aluminum siding is the only outer skin! Without the support the roller tube can also get bent due to the bouncing they do during travel especially on bad roads. The cradle supports for the roller bar cost anywhere from $32-55 depending on type and brand and you don't need those with the box awning to protect the roller bar or RV.Maintenance; the side arms and end rafters on those type adjust by sliding and if not cleaned and lubed get full of dirt, sand, road grit, pollen, sap, and whatever pollutants the rain washes out of the air making them difficult to slide. On the 1-step or 2-step models the tracks on the sides also get dirty and can trap a bunch of it. If uncleaned the awning is difficult to deploy and you need to spray them with silicone, WD-40, or some other lubricant and keep it clean. With the box awning they stay much cleaner because they are stored with the awning in the box so while in storage or on the road they don't get dirty. The exposed roller awnings do take longer to set up in my experience and I always seem to get mine set up quicker than others with the exposed type faster just like Steve mentioned. I wouldn't say the 1- step type are faster because they aren't with the slow motor. The 2- step maybe but it appears they take about the same time as my box awning and longer if the owner needs to clean debris from the tracks and lube it. With the 2-step you still need to find the pull tool and if you mount the crank handle for the Horizon with the hardware they provide you never have a problem remembering where it is!As for quality the Fiamma has received TUV quality approval certification. TUV is the German Quality Test Institute and it's much tougher to get TUV approval than UL approval in the USA, much tougher! The roller tube is guaranteed against rust. They have a patent-pending dual shock absorber system to protect the awning and the RV. They crank faster, have heavy anodized aluminum (15mil), and even the patented auto-lock you seem to have a problem with is TUV certified and considered a generation ahead of all the others! It also has the largest width awning fabric of any box awning in the same length by 2+". If it weren't for the fact they sell the awning to A&E Dometic without fabric and they add their own, even the fabric would be better. For those that claim it has a weaker fabric they are wrong! A&E only uses 2 types of fabric on all their awnings, double sided vinyl or woven acrylic and only the 9000 and optionally the 1- step use the acrylic type. All others use the same double sided vinyl material. Fiamma's material is much better though it may not have the fashion appeal that some may like or the color choices. Their fabric is scratch resistant, 5 layer, translucent letting in more light and yet blocking 85% of the suns UV rays.True the only screen room made specifically for it is Fiamma's and more expensive but not when comparing "apples to apples". If you add the vertical portion of the rafter supports that are standard in their design to others you pay around $95ea and I think only Faulkner has them as an option so you need to add in another $190 to the price of others. There are many other improvements in design based on the website description and what I've found in others. Aain I haven't yet seen them in person. The awning like so many other things is a person preference item and the reason there are so many types is because everyone has a difference of opinion as to what is best, at least for them. As mentioned before you can easily sell the box awning on Ebay or elsewhere and have no problem finding a buyer. It would offset the cost to you of replacing the awning you don't like with one you do. It is up to each owner or potential owner to decide what the best awning for them is. ALL have pros and cons and none is perfect for all or in all situations. From my point of view the Horizon awning is superior to the exposed roller type. As I said before "to each his own"!Mike
Topic: LD Box Awning Revisited (Read 7 times)
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Topic: LD Box Awning Revisited (Read 7 times)
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