Replacement for 350 engines January 18, 2001, 10:01:06 pm Yahoo Message Number: 1658GM Performance has (or is about to) release a "crate motor" to replace 350-cubic inch truck engines. This is a long-stroke small block chevy engine with good stuff, including Vortec cylinder heads and is complete from pan to inlet manifold. The price is/will be about $2,600.Warranty (even if you do-it-yourself) is for 3-years/36,000 miles.You can see more (I have no commercial interest in this) at www.paceparts.com. Follow the links through GM Performance ==>Crate Engines ==>383 truck.bob phillips Oxford, Mi
Replacement for 350 engines Reply #1 – January 19, 2001, 10:02:53 am Yahoo Message Number: 1668I have some concerns about these engines in very heavy-duty useage. I assume this is one using the 400 crank to up the displacement to 383, a version that has been around awhile for performance use.The Vortec heads, though, have a chamber of only 64 cc's, which can cause some real compression problems if not used with dished pistons or such. I have not yet seen an actual review of this 'tower/hauler' from GM, which DOES at least appear to be detuned compared to some of the other choices. Still, over 300 hp from this displacement indicates to me compression ratio may be high enough to require premium fuel, and this would be more running expense than I would want.Aluminum heads could reduce octane requirements, but I think these are iron, and aluminum might not be a good choice when pulling that long grade anyway. I am watching the mags for a review of this crate engine, but unfortunately, most of them are performance oriented, so I'm not holding my breath. If you find a review, please post the info here.Steve
Replacement for 350 engines Reply #2 – January 19, 2001, 08:53:04 pm Yahoo Message Number: 1682This 383 uses a special crankshaft for this application. It is not a cut-down 400 crank, but is specially made for the truck engine. GM's low-bidder has had trouble producing the crank, and it has taken since the fall of 99 to get it in production.You are right about the iron Vortec heads, but I think that the compression ratio is on the order of 9:1, and the engine is rated ror 87 octane regular, unleaded gasoline.A friend, unable to get the GM 383 last year, has set out on his own to build one for his pick-up truck. He is using the aluminum, fast burn heads. I am eagerly awaiting his dyno test results. He is building adaptors to connect the Vortec-style, fast burn heads to a (hot rod style) Edelbrock fuel injection manifold. (It is set up for the old style heads with angled retainer bolts and the 4-piece inlet manifold gasket.)His custom engine will cost about 3-times the $2600 of the crate motor.bob
Replacement for 350 engines Reply #3 – January 19, 2001, 08:53:04 pm Yahoo Message Number: 1683This 383 uses a special crankshaft for this application. It is not a cut-down 400 crank, but is specially made for the truck engine. GM's low-bidder has had trouble producing the crank, and it has taken since the fall of 99 to get it in production.You are right about the iron Vortec heads, but I think that the compression ratio is on the order of 9:1, and the engine is rated ror 87 octane regular, unleaded gasoline.A friend, unable to get the GM 383 last year, has set out on his own to build one for his pick-up truck. He is using the aluminum, fast burn heads. I am eagerly awaiting his dyno test results. He is building adaptors to connect the Vortec-style, fast burn heads to a (hot rod style) Edelbrock fuel injection manifold. (It is set up for the old style heads with angled retainer bolts and the 4-piece inlet manifold gasket.)His custom engine will cost about 3-times the $2600 of the crate motor.bob
Replacement for 350 engines Reply #4 – January 22, 2001, 08:58:45 pm Yahoo Message Number: 1749After building many replacement motors thru the years, all I can say is what a deal! My only question is if my 83 LD is worth this much. Just having the warrenty is worth a lot but also having a factory engineered engine is a definite plus over quessing what parts will work well together.
Replacement for 350 engines Reply #5 – January 22, 2001, 11:19:16 pm Yahoo Message Number: 1752This 383 is not approved for emission equipped vehicles, i.e. after 1976. I suppose all you may have to do is hope the visual inspection doesn't flag it, and I don't know what the likelyhood of that is. The shop I get mine smogged at is run by pretty sharp techs.Of course, you can get a brand new 'Goodwrench' 350 certified for pre-'85 applications for under $2000. Also available at Pace. No excitement, but reasonable.Steve
Replacement for 350 engines Reply #6 – January 23, 2001, 08:19:44 pm Yahoo Message Number: 1762Can't agree more.After my first 350 detonation, I came to work at GM and went to the museum of the future (powertrain mock-up area) and ran down the stuff needed to put a 454 L-19 in to the C-30 cut-away chassis. It was a factory option in the late 1980s. The L-19 was quite the turkey. The marine engines had a whole lot more torque and more robust parts.The GM employee engine price, plus all of the accessory drives, mounts, ... made the whole thing unaffordable.The big block wastes more heat than the 350/383 and further obstructs the engine compartment air flow.Otherwise, we might be able to do wheelies in our Lazy Dazes with 500-HP, factory fuel injected replacement engines.bob phillips
Replacement for 350 engines Reply #7 – January 23, 2001, 08:25:07 pm Yahoo Message Number: 1764A colleague, unable to get the 383 truck crate motor last year set out to build his own injected 383 and get it CARB certified. He is still at it!Glad you noted the lack of certification on this engine. I believe that replacing my oil-burning old 350 with the new one would have greatly reduce the local smog count --and coughing cohorts in the campgrounds.bob
Replacement for 350 engines Reply #8 – January 24, 2001, 09:23:52 am Yahoo Message Number: 1765Bob, keep us posted on your friend's progress. I've eyed the Edelbrock MPI system for awile, but they've made no noises about getting it certified for pre-FI 350's in CA.I talked to a place once about an FI conversion they advertised as being CARB legal. When I told them it was an '83 350 with no cat, they said they'd check. They called back and said 'no problem, ..... only thing is, you first have to swap out the block for a post '87 454 with full emissions....'. Right.So far, it's still in the 'academic' arena, as the Rochester carb works decently and passes emissions easily, seem to be no problems with the engine other than a little blowby. The future is pretty certain though, so I'm keeping my ears and eyes open.Steve
Replacement for 350 engines Reply #9 – January 24, 2001, 09:23:52 am Yahoo Message Number: 1766Bob, keep us posted on your friend's progress. I've eyed the Edelbrock MPI system for awile, but they've made no noises about getting it certified for pre-FI 350's in CA.I talked to a place once about an FI conversion they advertised as being CARB legal. When I told them it was an '83 350 with no cat, they said they'd check. They called back and said 'no problem, ..... only thing is, you first have to swap out the block for a post '87 454 with full emissions....'. Right.So far, it's still in the 'academic' arena, as the Rochester carb works decently and passes emissions easily, seem to be no problems with the engine other than a little blowby. The future is pretty certain though, so I'm keeping my ears and eyes open.Steve
Replacement for 350 engines Reply #10 – January 24, 2001, 09:23:52 am Yahoo Message Number: 1767Bob, keep us posted on your friend's progress. I've eyed the Edelbrock MPI system for awile, but they've made no noises about getting it certified for pre-FI 350's in CA.I talked to a place once about an FI conversion they advertised as being CARB legal. When I told them it was an '83 350 with no cat, they said they'd check. They called back and said 'no problem, ..... only thing is, you first have to swap out the block for a post '87 454 with full emissions....'. Right.So far, it's still in the 'academic' arena, as the Rochester carb works decently and passes emissions easily, seem to be no problems with the engine other than a little blowby. The future is pretty certain though, so I'm keeping my ears and eyes open.Steve
Replacement for 350 engines Reply #11 – January 24, 2001, 07:51:18 pm Yahoo Message Number: 1768I would like to know if anyone has had a problem installing a "non-certified engine". I have change motors in several chevy and ford trucks and vans and no smog inspector has ever checked engine identification numbers. It has been my experince that as long as all the original smog equiptment is present, hooked up and sort of operating that is all they look for . The real test is the tailpipe test and on the older LD it is a very minimal standard. They only are looking at idle emissions, which is primarily a function of the carburator working correctly. I would think that your chances of passing this test with a fresh 383 motor from GM would be much greater than your old oil burner. As for getting caught, asl long as the motor is the right color, no one is going to notice anything for the simple reason is that there is no difference between the replacement motor and the original THEY BOTH ARE SMALL BLOCKS. Just try to see the ID numbers on a egine that is installed in a van, I would also suspect that the new modern motor, even non-certified, would be cleaner burning than the origianl when new. I would not lose any sleep over it. As for installing an after market fuel injection system, it's a lot a money for a minimal improvement in fuel economy and emissions. These systems are usually non feedback systems which means they don't monitor the exhaust to minimize emissions. The other thing to think about is who is going to be able to repair it whrn it breaks down in middle of nowhere. Parts are going to be impossiable to obtain in a timely manner. The Q-Jet carb is known to millions of mechanics. If you really care about fuel econimy and emissions, get rid of the old LD and get a newer factory fuel injected model with a overdrive transmission.
Replacement for 350 engines Reply #12 – January 24, 2001, 07:51:18 pm Yahoo Message Number: 1769I would like to know if anyone has had a problem installing a "non-certified engine". I have change motors in several chevy and ford trucks and vans and no smog inspector has ever checked engine identification numbers. It has been my experince that as long as all the original smog equiptment is present, hooked up and sort of operating that is all they look for . The real test is the tailpipe test and on the older LD it is a very minimal standard. They only are looking at idle emissions, which is primarily a function of the carburator working correctly. I would think that your chances of passing this test with a fresh 383 motor from GM would be much greater than your old oil burner. As for getting caught, asl long as the motor is the right color, no one is going to notice anything for the simple reason is that there is no difference between the replacement motor and the original THEY BOTH ARE SMALL BLOCKS. Just try to see the ID numbers on a egine that is installed in a van, I would also suspect that the new modern motor, even non-certified, would be cleaner burning than the origianl when new. I would not lose any sleep over it. As for installing an after market fuel injection system, it's a lot a money for a minimal improvement in fuel economy and emissions. These systems are usually non feedback systems which means they don't monitor the exhaust to minimize emissions. The other thing to think about is who is going to be able to repair it whrn it breaks down in middle of nowhere. Parts are going to be impossiable to obtain in a timely manner. The Q-Jet carb is known to millions of mechanics. If you really care about fuel econimy and emissions, get rid of the old LD and get a newer factory fuel injected model with a overdrive transmission.
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