Maintaining Lithium Batteries

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February 16, 2025, 11:25:00 am

Since I am new to lithium batteries, a question arises: Is there any detriment to the batteries to let the solar system keep them charged up daily while not using the rig?

Re: Maintaining Lithium Batteries

Reply #1 – February 16, 2025, 11:33:17 am

Quote from: HiLola - February 16, 2025, 11:25:00 am

Since I am new to lithium batteries, a question arises: Is there any detriment to the batteries to let the solar system keep them charged up daily while not using the rig?

.

Not that I’m aware of - we’ve had our solar on the 24’ for 5 years, always on under the sun, with no ill effects. Once fully charged, the controller stops charging.

Can’t wait to get the 27’ “solarized”, 😎

Re: Maintaining Lithium Batteries

Reply #2 – February 16, 2025, 01:11:30 pm

Our LD's home parking spot has shore power, but the converter is always turned off. The solar panels easily maintain the lithium batteries and provide power to anything that uses 12-volt power.
To test the system, our compressor ice chest ran for over a year continuously exclusively on solar power.
After three years, I see no decrease in available power and have not experienced any problems.

Lithium batteries continue to improve and decrease in cost. Will Prowse keeps on finding low-cost, high-quality batteries.
5 12V 100Ah Battery "Wattcycle" | DIY Solar Power Forum

Amazon.com: WattCycle 12V 100Ah LiFePO4 Lithium Battery - BCI Group 24,...

Larry

As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Maintaining Lithium Batteries

Reply #3 – February 20, 2025, 08:50:17 pm

Quote from: Larry W - February 16, 2025, 01:11:30 pm

Our LD's home parking spot has shore power, but the converter is always turned off. The solar panels easily maintain the lithium batteries and provide power to anything that uses 12-volt power.
To test the system, our compressor ice chest ran for over a year continuously exclusively on solar power.
After three years, I see no decrease in available power and have not experienced any problems.

Lithium batteries continue to improve and decrease in cost. Will Prowse keeps on finding low-cost, high-quality batteries.
5 12V 100Ah Battery "Wattcycle" | DIY Solar Power Forum

Thanks for the Wattcycle battery tip. Been waiting for lighter battery to use on my trolling motor. At 23 lbs and good price this may be the ticket. Any suggestions on how to monitor the charge of the battery? It does not have blue tooth and no indicators on the battery itself. I would have the battery in a plastic battery box on an inflatable boat. I found this one on Amazon which I may be able to mount on top of the battery box.

Amazon.com: IPX7 Waterproof Battery Monitor with Bracket 7-100V,12v 24v 36v...

Ron S
Amazon.com: WattCycle 12V 100Ah LiFePO4 Lithium Battery - BCI Group 24,...

Larry

As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Maintaining Lithium Batteries

Reply #4 – February 21, 2025, 02:30:43 am

You need a battery monitor with shunt to monitor the available charge.
Here is an inexpensive battery monitor. Something like this could be built into a battery box.
Amazon.com: DC Multifunction Battery Monitor Meter,0-200V,0-100A (Widely...

Larry

As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Maintaining Lithium Batteries

Reply #5 – February 21, 2025, 12:48:09 pm

This is very tempting to move at least two of our Lead acid batteries to Lithium. We will probably be snow camping in March, usually we plug in at Chrystal Mountain but they have moved the short term RV spaces so access is no longer ski in and ski out. The whole reason for bringing our LD to the ski area parking was good access throughout the day. You could have breakfast before you ski and later ski back for lunch or take a break at any time. Now you have to wait for a bus to bring you to and from the far parking lot and they don't run much in the middle of the day. We think a better plan might be to drive out each day the seven miles for the night and return at 6am to get a close in spot at the day ski lot. With that we give would up plug in power and will depend on batteries more. We have been doing that in central Oregon for years. Although we have been depending on the April Oregon sun to recharge our batteries. March in the PNW might be tough? Maybe some added new Lithium battery power might make the difference. Currently we can last in 25 degrees about two days without solar. Adding an additional 100ah usable with a set of new Lithium batteries might be the difference?
   It makes sense that now we change out our two lead acid batteries for two Lithium and try it out. Will those Lithium batteries at Amazon fit in our tray that is setup for two 6V golf cart style batteries? I will have to go and measure. We will have to make some adjustments. Our solar controller, shore power charge controller and a DC to DC charge from our alternator?

   Karen~Liam
   98 ~ MB
   NinA

Re: Maintaining Lithium Batteries

Reply #6 – February 21, 2025, 06:29:17 pm

Be certain to get lithium batteries with built-in heaters, given the below-freezing temperatures you're talking about.

Re: Maintaining Lithium Batteries

Reply #7 – February 21, 2025, 07:45:47 pm

The 206 AH S.O.K. batteries with metal cases now come with internal heaters. (And U.L. approval and bluetooth each).
They will both fit in the battery box, and some insulation between the battery bottoms and the plugged up vented louvered doors. I did rip out the slide out tray and repaired the bottom of the box with a new interior surface.
Amazon.com: SOK Battery 12V 206Ah Heated LiFePO4 Metal Box SK12V206H :...
Two fit on end, 'bottom' handles can be removed without affecting the warranty. Sealed rivnuts can have the handle screws removed without dropping nut inside the box. The square holes in the back fit the battery terminals, to wire them up. The central hole that can be seen in the floor fits a spacer between the batteries. An aluminum angle goes over the top outside edge of the batteries to keep them from moving. The box is taller and left room for an Anderson 50A plug at the top. (I ended up not using the plug because of the difficulty of opening and closing the battery door with the extra side rubber gasket on the door). The vent holes were plugged up with caulking and an insulating panel inside the door. Black painted underlayment panels to cover the batteries. Cutout at the bottom for the cam-lock clearance. The blue showing where the cam lock cutout is, is insulating sheet. RonB

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Re: Maintaining Lithium Batteries

Reply #8 – February 21, 2025, 10:07:46 pm

These are the batteries I just purchased. They are the same size as the original batteries so fit nicely. I was told they have heaters but don’t see that in the online documents so need to contact the company to verify that. The BMS info can be accessed via Bluetooth.

Regarding the louvered vents in the exterior battery compartment access door, I simply covered them with duct tape for now but do plan on installing foam board to the door.

https://www.usbattery.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/US_12VG24_124.2.pdf

Re: Maintaining Lithium Batteries

Reply #9 – February 22, 2025, 03:46:54 pm

I watched Will Prowse disassemble about 15 Lithium Batteries last night and came to the conclusion that all of these batteries are not created equally but some are well built and you do not have to pay a lot for them to get a good battery. SOK seems to be a good value with Bluetooth and heaters. Prices have dropped considerably since last year and with the threat of tariffs we may be seeing the lowest prices for some time now.

Andy you bet that I want my golf-cart style batteries located in the LD battery box to be heated! I may also replace the two 12V lead acid batteries I installed under our dinette 8 or so years ago. Those since they are located in our LD may not have to be heated?

Ron, I remember when you got the SOKs and were setting them up, your installation looks good. I may also get rid of the slide trays although they do work in our LD which one year older then yours. We have not been able to figure why our Generator is not staying on but I have not spent any time with it yet. Having new 400ah or more in Lithium would work for us, it would be double or more then what we have now and make the our non working Getset more obsolete. <edit>I just noticed that these are 206ah batteries!

Greg, We are willing to pay more for batteries with heaters since we are more likely to be out in cold weather and will need to use them. Also having Bluetooth monitoring of the new Lithium batteries would be a plus. We changed our power converter a few years ago which will work with Lithium. Our Blue Ski 3000i is also Lithium ready for our solar setup. So I think we are mostly ready.

Karen~Liam
98 ~ MB
NinA

Re: Maintaining Lithium Batteries

Reply #10 – February 22, 2025, 04:46:26 pm

Karen & Liam, a couple of comments:

First, just a reminder that batteries don't substitute for a generator. They don't create electricity; they only store it. Getting bigger batteries is like getting a bigger gas tank... you still have to be able to fill it.

"I may also replace the two 12V lead acid batteries I installed under our dinette 8 or so years ago. Those since they are located in our LD may not have to be heated?"

No "maybes" about it--if you're going to replace two of your batteries, you should replace all four. Mixing lead-acid and lithium batteries (especially if the lead-acid ones are quite old) would be a bad idea. The two types have different charging and discharging characteristics. The old lead-acid batteries would likely drag down the performance of the lithium batteries. You'll be much better off replacing them all at once, if possible with four identical batteries--same capacity, make, and model.

Re: Maintaining Lithium Batteries

Reply #11 – February 22, 2025, 06:37:46 pm

Thanks Andy! That makes sense about mixing battery chemistry's. I have read about some hybred mixed battery setups but we don't want to go that route. We don't use our Genset, mostly we run it to exercise it. We have not really needed AC either. We don't travel places in the time of year that we have needed AC. I know that in a warming world that is going to get more difficult. This spring or summer when I get some time I may look at our Genset but it is looking more like it will have to come out to trouble shoot it and repair, some thing that is low priority for my time right now.

Karen~Liam
98 ~ MB

Re: Maintaining Lithium Batteries

Reply #12 – February 23, 2025, 02:47:57 am

You may be right about the cost of lithium batteries going up soon, they have dropped in price so much over the last few years, I wonder how much cheaper the prices can drop?

Andy is correct about getting rid of the old lead-acid batteries. Hybrid systems can be difficult to set up and they add more costs.
Instead of putting the one or two additional batteries under the dinette, install them in the compartment under the refrigerator. This would keep the cable runs from the batteries as short as possible. With lithium, I like each battery to have its own positive and negative cables running to common terminals before running a positive cable to a battery switch and a negative cable to the battery monitor post. Install a high amperage fuse to protect from shorts.
The battery cables need to be properly sized for both the maximum draw and charging levels.

If buying heated batteries, get heaters on all of them to maintain as even temperature of all the batteries as possible. To help keep the batteries in an acceptable temperature range, install a vent in the door under the refrigerator and cut away some of the battery box's rear wall. A computer fan mounted in the door vent would be helpful in very cold weather.
I recently found out that with a 2-gauge cable running from the starter's battery terminal to the coach batteries, through a 3-way marine battery switch (set in the "Both" position). The discharged battery pack (100-amp/hour used from a 300-amp/hour battery pack) can charged at 70-80-amps on a 130-amp alternator when the engine is running. The output drops some as the alternator warms up.
I have been experimenting with this without problems but you may want to use a DC-DC converter for charging., I'll let you how this experiment proceeds.
Running the engine to charge the battery can charge at a higher rate than most converters when powered by the generator. It may be more efficient to run the engine to recharge the battery than the generator while you can use the dash heater to help warm the interior.

You will like how quickly lithium batteries charge compared to lead-acid, they make the most out of the available charging power, no matter the source.

Larry

Re: Maintaining Lithium Batteries

Reply #13 – February 23, 2025, 10:48:01 am

Larry W
Phoenix Cruiser finally has delivered their first Volta non-generator. They use a 8,000W alternator to charge the system. I wonder if this alternator could be an option in a LD to charge quicker?

Ron S

Re: Maintaining Lithium Batteries

Reply #14 – February 23, 2025, 11:21:54 am

A 8000 watt alternator at 12v is over 600 amps, sounds kinda fishy, wonder how it’s done.

As to upgrading an existing RV, you can find 300+ amp alternators, but that requires a bit of rewiring to handle the power.

www.tucsonalternator.com

Re: Maintaining Lithium Batteries

Reply #15 – February 23, 2025, 12:53:29 pm

Quote from: Sarz272000 - February 23, 2025, 10:48:01 am

Larry W
Phoenix Cruiser finally has delivered their first Volta non-generator. They use an 8,000W alternator to charge the system. I wonder if this alternator could be an option in a LD to charge quicker?

The V10 does not have the space available for a huge, semi-tractor-size alternator without some sort of adaptor kit, if it is even possible. It would require changing the serpentine belt arrangement to a much wider and heavier belt and pulleys.
One of the 400-AMP alternators that Dave linked to will fit and provide up to 4800 watts, two to three times the amperage output as the stock alternators. Tucson Alternators also sells a heavy wiring kit to be used with their alternator. I would hope the stock serpentine belt can handle the strain of running a high-output alternator.

A 400-amp alternator would need additional wiring upgrades to a lithium battery bank. This arrangement is available now if you want to go in this direction for less than $1000 in parts.
It would be a lot cheaper than buying a new Volta.

Larry

Re: Maintaining Lithium Batteries

Reply #16 – February 23, 2025, 05:03:15 pm

A small update about my lithium battery upgrade and upkeep.   First let me say I make no recommendations about doing what I do. It's just me.
About two or three years ago I had a lithium battery install.   Two 12v parallel.   I haven't adjusted our Blue Sky controller for lithium. I'm still using the factory settings.
I live in the Pacific Northwest on the west side of the mountains.   That means we get a few. 100 degree days in the summer and a few below freezing snow and ice days in the winter.   We get about 50 plus inches of rain.
I'm sharing all that to give you an idea of what our LD Twin King lives under.
I don't have a battery heater or blue tooth connection on my batteries.
Bottom line to all this is my batteries are doing great.   The two. 100 watt factory installed solar panels keep the batteries charged and topped off.

Glen

Re: Maintaining Lithium Batteries

Reply #17 – March 03, 2025, 05:11:48 pm

To seal the original battery box, the louvred vents were simply covered with duct tape inside, then some 1” thick foam packing material I had laying around the garage was cut slightly larger and inserted over the taped areas, held in by friction.

Re: Maintaining Lithium Batteries

Reply #18 – March 03, 2025, 11:01:48 pm

Quote

One of the 400-AMP alternators that Dave linked to will fit and provide up to 4800 watts, two to three times the amperage output as the stock alternators. Tucson Alternators also sells a heavy wiring kit to be used with their alternator. I would hope the stock serpentine belt can handle the strain of running a high-output alternator.

A 400-amp alternator would need additional wiring upgrades to a lithium battery bank. This arrangement is available now if you want to go in this direction for less than $1000 in parts.
It would be a lot cheaper than buying a new Volta.

Larry

How much power (or amps) does the 400A alternator produce at idle? If this is too low, then it would be less useful to run the engine instead of the generator.

Re: Maintaining Lithium Batteries

Reply #19 – March 04, 2025, 02:25:35 am

When charging batteries with the generator, it’s the size of the converter than determines the charge level, usually 45 or 55 amps.
Our stock 130 amp alternator will charge at 70-80 amp when connected with 2-gauge cable with the engine idling.
I would assume a larger alternator would produce more at idle speeds, even more if the idle speed is increased.

Larry

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February 16, 2025, 11:25:00 am

Reply #1 – February 16, 2025, 11:33:17 am

Reply #2 – February 16, 2025, 01:11:30 pm

Reply #3 – February 20, 2025, 08:50:17 pm

Reply #4 – February 21, 2025, 02:30:43 am

Reply #5 – February 21, 2025, 12:48:09 pm

Reply #6 – February 21, 2025, 06:29:17 pm

Reply #7 – February 21, 2025, 07:45:47 pm

Reply #8 – February 21, 2025, 10:07:46 pm

Reply #9 – February 22, 2025, 03:46:54 pm

Reply #10 – February 22, 2025, 04:46:26 pm

Reply #11 – February 22, 2025, 06:37:46 pm

Reply #12 – February 23, 2025, 02:47:57 am

Reply #13 – February 23, 2025, 10:48:01 am

Reply #14 – February 23, 2025, 11:21:54 am

Reply #15 – February 23, 2025, 12:53:29 pm

Reply #16 – February 23, 2025, 05:03:15 pm

Reply #17 – March 03, 2025, 05:11:48 pm

Reply #18 – March 03, 2025, 11:01:48 pm

Reply #19 – March 04, 2025, 02:25:35 am

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