Solar Upgrade January 24, 2025, 09:22:21 pm Finally bit the bullet and did a solar upgrade today. Discount Solar added 400 W of rooftop panels to the existing factory 100 W panel (which had to be relocated to make room). Swapped out the aging AGM batteries for two 100 watt lithium batteries made by US Battery, and added a Victron SmartShunt battery monitor. Also, added a Xantrex whole house inverter/ charger. Kudos to the crew at Discount Solar! They had guys swarming all over Nocona doing various tasks for this one day install.Now just learning and monitoring the system, and enjoying hanging out with some good Lazy Daze folks at Q! 😊 11 Likes
Re: Solar Upgrade Reply #1 – January 25, 2025, 10:36:51 am Nice, clean install Greg, and properly sized cables too. Gotta say, I love those red batteries!jor
Re: Solar Upgrade Reply #2 – January 25, 2025, 11:07:07 am Greg - sounds great! Can you share kinda how big a "bite" the project was to your wallet? We are thinking of going in a similar direction, but are a tad hesitant because of cost.QuoteOn Jan 24, 2025, at 8:26 PM, HiLola
Re: Solar Upgrade Reply #3 – January 25, 2025, 01:07:56 pm Thanks, Jor, they are kind of snazzy! I opted for the US Battery because they are made in the good old USA and are priced much less than Battle Born. I did seriously consider some of the Chinese brands as I’ve heard good things about certain brands, though.DANDTE, I’ll send you a personal message. 1 Likes
Re: Solar Upgrade Reply #4 – January 25, 2025, 06:26:08 pm We had Discount add 570 watts on top and 3-100Ah Lifeblue lithiums, 2K Xantrex inverter in 2020 and as per their MO, got it done in a day. It has performed flawlessly ever since - I mean, not one problem - zip! Amazingly reliable.We boondock almost everywhere here in NM and the southwest, the only limiting factor in staying out are tank capacities - we manage up to 10 days out. A really nice feature of the Lifeblue setup is the bluetooth feature to check on battery capacities. I can't say enough good things about Discount Solar - they did a great job. 3 Likes
Re: Solar Upgrade Reply #5 – January 25, 2025, 09:50:49 pm Thanks for sharing your experience with Discount Solar, Jaxon. That gives me confidence that I made the right choice as I was also looking at Solar Bill, but I’d heard some negative things about them. I think the owner of Discount is an electrical engineer so that gives me confidence as well. I know that my experience was certainly a good one. I am hanging around Q right now and monitoring the system and so far everything is working perfectly! 2 Likes
Re: Solar Upgrade Reply #6 – January 26, 2025, 10:29:08 pm I am amazed at today’s technology! I downloaded the apps for my new batteries and the Xantrex charger/inverter. Between those two and the Victron SmartShunt, it makes it really easy to manage your power needs. Here is a screen shot of one of the batteries from the battery app. These are direct replacements for the stock Lazy Daze AGM batteries.US 12V G24 Lithium-Ion Battery | Essential Li® | U.S. Battery Mfg. 1 Likes
Re: Solar Upgrade Reply #7 – January 27, 2025, 12:27:25 am It'll be interesting to see how the SoC indicated by the batteries matches up with that of the SmartShunt. Ideally they should match pretty closely. But several of us have observed that they don't necessarily. If you find that the readings diverge as the battery discharges... trust the SmartShunt. :-) Let us know what you find out. 2 Likes
Re: Solar Upgrade Reply #8 – January 27, 2025, 09:16:24 am Quote from: Andy Baird - January 27, 2025, 12:27:25 amIt'll be interesting to see how the SoC indicated by the batteries matches up with that of the SmartShunt. Ideally they should match pretty closely. But several of us have observed that they don't necessarily. If you find that the readings diverge as the battery discharges... trust the SmartShunt. :-) Let us know what you find out.Thanks for pointing out that difference, Andy! I’ve been monitoring the system with the Victron since Friday’s install but just downloaded the battery BMS app yesterday. You are correct, sir! Here’s what I’m seeing this morning after making coffee using the inverter. As you can see, the batteries show a higher value than the Victron so I’ll be sure to use the more conservative value of the Victron. I wonder why the difference though?Got some rain overnight here at Q so probably not going to be a great solar day but makes for a more interesting sunrise. Heading to Yuma later today so hopefully it will be a little bit warmer!
Re: Solar Upgrade Reply #9 – January 27, 2025, 10:28:44 am OK, this is weird. The Victron just now switched to 100% SOC instantly, while the battery BMS still shows in the 80% range. What’s up with that?
Re: Solar Upgrade Reply #10 – January 27, 2025, 12:03:59 pm QuoteThe Victron just now switched to 100% SOC instantlyIf your shunt monitor is a Victron 712 you might have to calibrate it at 100%. jor 1 Likes
Re: Solar Upgrade Reply #11 – January 27, 2025, 01:07:41 pm Hi, Jor. It’s a Smart Shunt 500A/50mV. I didn’t get any paperwork with it from the installer so plan on going back there in a few days to get the info on it.
Re: Solar Upgrade Reply #12 – January 27, 2025, 01:41:24 pm Hi Jor; There is no stand alone display. Your Cell phone is it. I personally wouldn't want my phone to be the only monitor of what is going on with my electrical system, but most people are happy using that and essentially ignore the readout. So Greg can add one if he wants to at a later date. Greg, The app that runs your batteries can be designated as #1 and #2, OR 'A' and 'B', or some similar designator, so you can tell the batteries apart. If one battery started doing something odd, you want to be able to identify physically which one is which. That time remaining detail I think is more meant for something like a trolling motor marine situation. If you were running a high power drain item, air fryer, Microwave etc. that value would take on more significance as it got closer to zero. The processor is trying to give you an estimate of when you are going to run out of power. With input from engine, solar, generator, really too many variable inputs and outputs to be very meaningful. Greg; your 2017 Alternator is dependent on engine RPM for the maximum output, and other drains like lighting, dash air, chassis battery and running the engine, all make for a highly uncertain availability of power to charge the LiF batteries. I don't think you need to worry much about that. The alternator can handle upwards of 180 Amps IIRC. I don't know what your converter, the original Parallax, can put out. Probably in the 55-65 Amp range. People complained about the two fan always running feature, so LD downrated the converter from 75 Amps. 400 Watts of solar is a good match for 200 AH of battery bank. I've never been below 70% SOC with my 400 AH (two SOK 206's) battery bank. RonB
Re: Solar Upgrade Reply #13 – January 27, 2025, 04:08:39 pm "I wonder why the difference though?"If the batteries are like my Lithionics batteries, they're only measuring full amps, so they miss small drains that are less than an amp. That adds up, and it accounts for the increasing discrepancy. The Victron devices measure much smaller currents, so they are more accurate. 1 Likes
Re: Solar Upgrade Reply #14 – January 28, 2025, 08:19:18 am Quote from: RonB - January 27, 2025, 01:41:24 pmHi Jor; There is no stand alone display. Your Cell phone is it. I personally wouldn't want my phone to be the only monitor of what is going on with my electrical system, but most people are happy using that and essentially ignore the readout. So Greg can add one if he wants to at a later date. Greg, The app that runs your batteries can be designated as #1 and #2, OR 'A' and 'B', or some similar designator, so you can tell the batteries apart. If one battery started doing something odd, you want to be able to identify physically which one is which. That time remaining detail I think is more meant for something like a trolling motor marine situation. If you were running a high power drain item, air fryer, Microwave etc. that value would take on more significance as it got closer to zero. The processor is trying to give you an estimate of when you are going to run out of power. With input from engine, solar, generator, really too many variable inputs and outputs to be very meaningful. Greg; your 2017 Alternator is dependent on engine RPM for the maximum output, and other drains like lighting, dash air, chassis battery and running the engine, all make for a highly uncertain availability of power to charge the LiF batteries. I don't think you need to worry much about that. The alternator can handle upwards of 180 Amps IIRC. I don't know what your converter, the original Parallax, can put out. Probably in the 55-65 Amp range. People complained about the two fan always running feature, so LD downrated the converter from 75 Amps. 400 Watts of solar is a good match for 200 AH of battery bank. I've never been below 70% SOC with my 400 AH (two SOK 206's) battery bank. RonBThanks for your post, Ron. I thought about adding a stand-alone display but, to save $, I went with Bluetooth only option. I’m going to use the system as is and see how it goes. I may at some point be convinced that a mounted display is needed. I must say it’s pretty cool that I can lay here in bed drinking coffee and monitor the system with my phone though!Regarding the lithium battery designation, I did go in and rename them Fwd and Aft, as they relate to their positions in the battery box.A question that I should’ve asked when I had my installation done was, since they are removing the existing converter – charger from the system and using the Xantrex unit as a charger – inverter, how is electricity converted from AC to DC when plugged into shore power? Does the Xantrex unit also perform that function? I am heading back to Q in a couple of days so plan on stopping by Discount Solar as inquiring minds want to know!
Re: Solar Upgrade Reply #15 – January 28, 2025, 09:36:02 am Hi Greg; Yes the Xantrex performs the same function as your converter, with a few more functions added. Was it installed in the same location as the converter? RonB
Re: Solar Upgrade Reply #16 – January 28, 2025, 10:24:40 am Oh, cool! No, the Xantrex is installed in the large cabinet underneath the fridge. Victoria is probably not gonna be too happy about losing that space, so I’ll need to make it up to her! So I can potentially remove the old converter-charger it sounds like? 1 Likes
Re: Solar Upgrade Reply #17 – January 28, 2025, 12:54:54 pm Hi Greg; You could but the space isn't too usable. It is part of your power distribution center, fuse panel and wiring of branch circuits. No door, you have to remove four screws to get into it. RonB 1 Likes
Re: Solar Upgrade Reply #18 – January 28, 2025, 11:00:38 pm Ron, I don’t have a problem leaving it there as a back up (just need to reconnect a wire) but by removing it, it would remove a little weight and provide better access to the water pump. But, I think the brown power center cover wouldn’t have a place to screw into if removed so . . .
Re: Solar Upgrade Reply #19 – February 02, 2025, 02:13:59 pm Here’s a fun little factoid: I got to thinking, “I wonder how much weight savings I achieved by doing this lithium battery upgrade?” The two new lithium batteries weigh 86 pounds less than the old AGM’s, but when you add in the weight of the inverter and remote switch, two solar panels, the shunt, and miscellaneous wiring, I estimate a net weight savings of only about 10 pounds. Not much but I’ll take it being that the solar input more than quadrupled and battery capacity essentially doubled!
Re: Solar Upgrade Reply #20 – February 02, 2025, 07:38:14 pm Hi Greg; The solar panels I replaced weigh a lot less than the old ones, are higher efficiency, a lot less expensive too. With 450 watts, it weighs a lot less. About a 20 pound decrease. The Lead acids I removed, and the slide out tray, weighed about 145 pounds. The Lif's were 48 pounds each, with heater and hold down brackets, about 110 pounds. About 35# less, so with the 20#, about 55 pounds. The Li compatible converter saved about 20 pounds over the old one. (Real iron low frequency transformer) to a 'switcher at 55 Amps. (Progressive Dynamics and fuse board.) The DC to DC converter was about 10 pounds and Inverter another ten pounds, wiring about 10 pounds, so that 30# cut into my savings, so the rig is about 45 pounds lighter. As you said, more power as the benefit. RonB 1 Likes
Re: Solar Upgrade Reply #21 – February 02, 2025, 08:04:53 pm When our LD was a couple of years old, I added two 80-watt solar panels and built a battery box that was hung under the coach that held four T-105 golf cart batteries.Battery tray- new | FlickrRemoving the lead-acid batteries and the heavy metal box and supporting structure and replacing it with three 100-amp hour lithium batteries reduced the overall weight by 125 pounds and provided twice the usable power.All three of the early solar panels have been replaced with much lighter and physically smaller panels with greater output.These are wonderful times with solar panels and lithium batteries dropping in price, a nice change from a world where everything seems to be more expensive every day.Larry 6 Likes
Re: Solar Upgrade Reply #22 – February 03, 2025, 09:07:17 am Quoteand built a battery box that was hung under the coach that held four T-105 golf cart batteries.Now that's what I call some excellent work. Makes me wish I had switched to LD years ago. Lots of exciting stuff with early adopters and creative thinking! jor 1 Likes
Re: Solar Upgrade Reply #23 – February 03, 2025, 12:15:00 pm Quote from: jor - February 03, 2025, 09:07:17 amNow that's what I call some excellent work. Makes me wish I had switched to LD years ago. Lots of exciting stuff with early adopters and creative thinking! jorIt was an interesting project needing to cantilever almost 300 pounds of batteries and tray off the frame. It took many evenings of measuring and fitting to shoehorn it in place. It worked fine for 18 years and three sets of batteries until the lithium battery upgrade. The battery pack was dropped annually for maintenance, to make sure the battery cables were secure and the watering system was working correctly.We wanted more battery capacity but there wasn't a place available inside that could be sealed airtight, this was before AGM batteries became common.On our 1983 22 FL, I built an airtight, vented-to-the-outside box that held two T-105s, located behind one of the barrel chairs, replacing the single stock Series 27 Deep cycle battery..Larry 2 Likes
Re: Solar Upgrade Reply #24 – February 10, 2025, 11:25:38 am An unexpected surprise! Back home now and the LD is parked so close to the house, the Victron SmartShunt and battery BMS apps can be accessed from inside the house. Cool!
Topic: Solar Upgrade (Read 1847 times)
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