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Upgraded front brakes-pre 2008 E450
In 2008, Ford upsized the E450's front brakes significantly.
I'm a few years late, only recently discovering that the front brakes of the pre-2008 E450s can use the same brake rotors, calipers, and pads as the 2008 and later E450s. To complete the package, new caliper brackets, caliper bolts, and brake hoses are required.
The rotors are slightly larger in diameter and almost a half-inch wider. They are also 13 lbs heavier, more mass to absorb braking energy. The brake pads and caliper pistons are larger.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1277783-08-brake-upgrade-with-photos.html#post13736585

If a brake job is on the horizon for your pre-2008 E450, consider this upgrade, especially if you tow.
Towing heavy Jeeps have caused our LD's front brake rotors to warp twice. The next time the brakes need work, the 2008 and later front brakes will be installed.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Upgraded front brakes-pre 2008 E450
Reply #1 –
Larry, this is great news.  When I bought mine, the front rotors are warped and a brake job is on the horizon, especially before Morro Bay.  We do plan on towing in the future so this is a must.

In reading your linked thread, it says to convert the E-250's?   This thread seems to get confused as more people added info so now I am a little confused.  Was thinking I would see the pre-2008 E450 conversion to 2008 E450 with pix, part #s etc. but think this was just an example and one just needs to buy all 2008+ E450 parts.

Ramon
2000 Mid-Bath
2012 Lance 830 Truck Camper/2006 Cummins Dodge Ram Megacab
1985 Multi Plan - Donated to the American Breast Cancer Foundation.
Re: Upgraded front brakes-pre 2008 E450
Reply #2 –
I spent a bit of time on Rock Auto cross-referencing the brake part specifications for the  2003 and 2008 E250, E350, and E450.
It looks like everything should fit. The 2008's knuckles, caliper, caliper brackets, rotors, and pads have the same.part numbers for the E250, E350, and E450.. The same front brakes are used from 2008 to the latest E-series models.
The E450's increased braking power is the result of the greater hydraulic pressure brake line pressure produced by the hydro-boost. The E250 and E350 have vacuum brake boosters, compared to the E450's hydro-boost.
 
An amazing amount of E450 parts have been interchangeable through the years, except the electronics.
Assume I will try this conversion before next summer's longer trip.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Upgraded front brakes-pre 2008 E450
Reply #3 –
Thanks Larry,  If I am the first one to pull this off,  I will post but probably after all the holidays
Ramon
2000 Mid-Bath
2012 Lance 830 Truck Camper/2006 Cummins Dodge Ram Megacab
1985 Multi Plan - Donated to the American Breast Cancer Foundation.
Re: Upgraded front brakes-pre 2008 E450
Reply #4 –
Quote from: Larry W  - 
In 2008, Ford upsized the E450's front brakes significantly.
I'm a few years late, only recently discovering that the front brakes of the pre-2008 E450s can use the same brake rotors, calipers, and pads as the 2008 and later E450s.
Do the 2008's have better specifications due to the better front brakes, like a higher maximum towing weight, than the earlier E450's?
2005 Jayco 24SS
Re: Upgraded front brakes-pre 2008 E450
Reply #5 –
Quote from: mrfixit454  - 
Thanks Larry,  If I am the first one to pull this off,  I will post but probably after all the holidays
Ramon

It should not be hard changing to the larger brakes, nothing is exceptionally mechanically challenging, the biggest issue for me is the weight of the rotors.
If you have decent size air compressor, save up for a Harbor Freight pneumatic/hydraulic jack. it comes in handy along with a set of 12-ton jack stands.
https://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-airhydraulic-bottle-jack-59425.html

The new front rotors require bearings and seals. They come with the races already pressed in. The wheel roller bearings need a slight preload, I use a Parks bicycle torque wrench to set it to 18 in/lbs.

The 2008 brakes require different brake hoses, but they have the same thread size as your LD. While you are doing this, it's a good time to replace all the rubber brake lines in your nearly quarter-century-old LD.
Finding the correct rear hoses was challenging when I rebuilt our 2003 LD brakes two summers ago. It required a bit of mixing and matching, and the OE lines were no longer available.
As the rear brakes seem adequate, I have found no listing of upgrades.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Upgraded front brakes-pre 2008 E450
Reply #6 –
I’m really glad I have a 2008. Hit the jackpot with all the updates and upgrades for that year forward.
Joe B.
2008 26ft  grey/white Rear Bath
Family of 5 hitting the open road as much as we can.
Re: Upgraded front brakes-pre 2008 E450
Reply #7 –
The upgrade of our 2003 LD's front brakes to the larger 2008 and later E450 brakes has been completed and the good news the new larger front brakes fit and work as expected. 
A lot of research went into checking the specs before pulling out the credit card. Rock Auto is a great resource for looking up specifications. I picked a 2010 E450 as the year to order from. Most of the front brake parts are the same from 2008 to 2019.

The new rotors are a 1/2" larger in diameter and the rotor's width increased from 1-1/8" to 1-5/8, the weight increasing about ten pounds, more mass to absorb heat.
The brake pads are the same length as the older brake pads but are 2" tall compared to the 2003's 1-1/2" height, increasing the swept area of the rotor.
The calipers have a revised slide design and the dual piston's diameter has increased from 56 mm to 60 mm, which increases the pressure on the pads when the brakes are applied.
Hopefully, the new parts will increase the lifespan of the front brake rotors, stopping a heavy Jeep Rubicon takes its toll, even with the Jeep having a tow brake system. The West has a lot of long, steep grades.

The question now was if the 2003 master cylinder would push enough fluid to fill the larger caliper's pistons without the brake pedal getting too close to the floor. The newer brakes have a slightly larger diameter master cylinder, its piston increasing from 1.313" to 1.375".  it appears the master cylinder works fine with the bigger brake calipers.
If a bigger master cylinder was needed, a 2003 E-550 has a master brake cylinder with a bigger diameter piston of 1.375", the same size as the 2008+ brakes, which would provide a possible solution if needed, some modification would be needed to bolt up the E-550 MC.
The 2008 and newer E450 master cylinders have metric brake line fittings, while the older 2003 brakes have SAE fittings. A l2008+ MC would not fit without adding adaptors or new brake lines at the MC.

The 2008 and later E450 rear brakes were upgraded too but use a different caliper mounting method that is not compatible with the 2008+ brakes
The rotors were increased in size but the caliper piston's diameter was decreased from 60 mm to 56 mm, decreasing the pressure on the pad. I'm not sure if the performance was greatly increased.
The performance of our 2003 rear brakes was always adequate, and the rotors and pads have never shown signs of overheating and lasted a long time, unlike the front brakes. The original rear rotors were replaced at 130,000 miles,

New wheel bearings and front brake hoses are needed. The 2003 brakes use different hoses for the front brakes.
The front wheel bearings require a 17-in/lb preload.
While I was at it, the front Bilstein shock bushings were tightened.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/albums/72177720323894305/

I can post a parts list if anyone is interested.
Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Upgraded front brakes-pre 2008 E450
Reply #8 –
Hi Larry,  Thanks for doing this..  Yes, parts list please.  Been wanting to do this on my 2000 but not sure if before Morro Bay.

Thanks,
Ramon
2000 Mid-Bath
2012 Lance 830 Truck Camper/2006 Cummins Dodge Ram Megacab
1985 Multi Plan - Donated to the American Breast Cancer Foundation.
Re: Upgraded front brakes-pre 2008 E450
Reply #9 –
For simplicity, I picked a 2010 E-450 for the brake upgrade.
All the parts listed can be sourced from Rock Auto, except for the brake rotors. There are many combination of parts available, the list below is what I bought. YMMV
Rock Auto wanted $150 to ship two rotors. Instead, I bought two premium brake rotors locally from Napa Auto, avoiding the shipping cost. Be prepared for 60 lbs rotors.
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NB_48880626 
Auto Club membership gets a 10% discount at Napa.
Rock Auto has 5% discounts available online.  When pricing parts from Rock Auto, determine the total cost including shipping before buying.

Calipers new (2)
Powerstop S5072   Includes caliper brackets

Brake pads-set  Set comes with silicone lubricant and stainless-steel slide clips.
ACDelco semi-metalic   17D1328MXH.

Brake hose-left
Raybestos BH383314

Brake hose-right
RAYBESTOS BH383922

Caliper bolts (4)
ACDelco  18K7043

Wheel bearings     The outer bearing races come commonly pre-installed in the brake rotors. You only need the roller bearings
Inner (2)
Timken  LM102949

Outer (2)
Timken  15101

Wheel bearing seals (2)
Motorcraft BRS93

DOT-3/DOT-4 brake fluid  Valvoline  2 quarts should be enough to flush the master cylinder and rear brakes and then finish bleeding.
DOT 4 brake fluid has a higher boiling point than DOT 3 and mixes well with DOT 3 fluid. brake fade happens when brake fluid gets hot enough to boil, DOT 4 is overkill for most cars but RV brakes can be subjected to much higher heat levels when towing and descending long, steep downgrades where downshifting isn't enough to keep the speed down.
 Lots of long, steep grades in the West.
Valvoline™ DOT 3&4 Brake Fluid, 12oz
– Valvoline Chemicals

Larry




Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Upgraded front brakes-pre 2008 E450
Reply #10 –
I don't need this upgrade but I gotta say, excellent posts, Larry! Anyone down the road looking for information on this upgrade is going to be thankful for your detailed description.
jor
09 27' MB
10  Suby Forester
Re: Upgraded front brakes-pre 2008 E450
Reply #11 –
Thanks Larry for making this easier for us.  2 things...

1.  Photobucket link not found?  I'm logged in.
2. Did you or can you verify stud lengths for Kapers wheel covers as compared to original stud length?  I assume you are using the extenders?  and it might not matter for you.

Thanks,
Ramon
2000 Mid-Bath
2012 Lance 830 Truck Camper/2006 Cummins Dodge Ram Megacab
1985 Multi Plan - Donated to the American Breast Cancer Foundation.
Re: Upgraded front brakes-pre 2008 E450
Reply #12 –
Quote from: mrfixit454  - 
1.  Photobucket link not found?  I'm logged in.
2. Did you or can you verify stud lengths for Kapers wheel covers as compared to the original stud length?  I assume you are using the extenders?  and it might not matter for you.

Check the Flickr link now.
The NAPA rotor's wheel studs are long enough. to use the stock Kaper SS wheel covers.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Upgraded front brakes-pre 2008 E450
Reply #13 –
Thanks Larry, that looks real nice!
2000 Mid-Bath
2012 Lance 830 Truck Camper/2006 Cummins Dodge Ram Megacab
1985 Multi Plan - Donated to the American Breast Cancer Foundation.
Re: Upgraded front brakes-pre 2008 E450
Reply #14 –
Quote from: mrfixit454  - 
Thanks Larry, that looks real nice!

If you need to do a complete brake job, upgrading to the 2008+ front brakes doesn't cost a lot more except for the new brake hoses.
For any pre-2008 LD that had not replaced the brake hoses yet, it isn't a bad idea to replace them, the rubber hoses deteriorate over time.

See you in two weeks in MB.
Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Upgraded front brakes-pre 2008 E450
Reply #15 –
Larry, is the Right brake hose missing a few #s?   Trying to source
2000 Mid-Bath
2012 Lance 830 Truck Camper/2006 Cummins Dodge Ram Megacab
1985 Multi Plan - Donated to the American Breast Cancer Foundation.
Re: Upgraded front brakes-pre 2008 E450
Reply #17 –
Thank you again Larry.  I might not have got it all the cheapest, but most of it coming next Wednesday.   I pick up rotors, seals and hoses from Napa Tomorrow. Also, I had to add an 8 to brake pads...  17D132"8"MXH.
Ramon


2000 Mid-Bath
2012 Lance 830 Truck Camper/2006 Cummins Dodge Ram Megacab
1985 Multi Plan - Donated to the American Breast Cancer Foundation.
Re: Upgraded front brakes-pre 2008 E450
Reply #18 –
Quote from: mrfixit454  - 
Larry, is the Right brake hose missing a few #s?   Trying to source

Thw mistakes have  been corrected.
Let me know if I messed anything else up.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Upgraded front brakes-pre 2008 E450
Reply #19 –
Quote from: mrfixit454  - 
Thank you again Larry.  I might not have got it all the cheapest, but most of it coming next Wednesday.   I pick up rotors, seals and hoses from Napa Tomorrow.


Are you going to install the new brake parts before MB?  Unless the existing brakes are unusable, I would consider waiting to install them after the trip, it's an involved job to install the new brakes and the time needed to bed the new brake pads in.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Upgraded front brakes-pre 2008 E450
Reply #20 –
Yes, understand that and was considering  the same.  Going to San Clemente after Easter,  much shorter trip, 30 miles.   Current rotors are warped pretty good or I should say act up more if heavy braking.   I could milk it to MB as is, I'm not towing.   I'll think about it over the next few days.  Pads come Tuesday, calipers Wednesday.   I have everything else.  Was thinking yanking rotors Tuesday and install new ones.  Then change calipers and brake lines Thursday.   We would take off the following Tuesday.
Appreciate your input Larry.

Ramon
2000 Mid-Bath
2012 Lance 830 Truck Camper/2006 Cummins Dodge Ram Megacab
1985 Multi Plan - Donated to the American Breast Cancer Foundation.