Dragonfly April 16, 2024, 04:05:45 pm Yesterday I was at a local RV service center and, while waiting for some work to be done, was talking to the service advisor about lithium batteries. She said they only use Dragonfly batteries. It appears they are associated with Battleborn and I was wondering what the difference is between the two brands. Anyone know?Lithium-Ion Battery Manufacturers & Renewable Energy Storage | Dragonfly Energy
Re: Dragonfly Reply #1 – April 16, 2024, 04:52:23 pm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S4OPgpCtok&ab_channel=BattleBornBatteriesI'll say as a general observation that lithium battery technology right now is changing very quickly. Once an established service shop or manufacturer finds a brand they trust, they are hesitant to change because they can get burned if the new brand doesn't deliver the quality or support they need over the service life of the battery.In other words, an established shop will never be the place to get the latest battery or the cheapest prices. Their relationships evolve too slowly for them to be jumping to the newest new thing. At the same time, they are less likely to get caught up in the new new thing that turns out to have a hidden problem.Not every manufacturer needs to move as slowly as Lazy Daze did, but there are reasons that they value a battery, for example, that isn't changing every few months. Rich 1 Likes
Re: Dragonfly Reply #2 – April 16, 2024, 05:02:02 pm Battleborn is Dragonfly's line of consumer lithium batteries.They are known for quality batteries and good customer service...at a price. They are expensive compared to many other lithium batteries where prices have been steadily falling over the past few years Battleborn is an exception, its prices have gone up while not improving any of their features. IMO, they were a better value a few years ago. Bluetooth should be a standard feature at the price point.Will Prowse made a few negative comments recently about their lack of innovation and rising prices. Battleborn vs Epoch Batteries (thread migration) | DIY Solar Power ForumOur LD has two Battleborn batteries, they were a decent buy at the time when they were $150 cheaper. I wouldn't buy them today. They have been troublefree.100Ah 12V GC2 LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Battery | Battle Born BatteriesEven a well-known lithium battery by Victron is much cheaper than Battleborn's 100-amp/hr battery.Amazon.com: Victron Energy Lithium SuperPack 12.8-Volt 100Ah High Current...Larry 1 Likes As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: Dragonfly Reply #3 – July 28, 2024, 04:33:13 pm When it come time to replace my house batteries, would switching to 2 lithium batteries be advised?
Re: Dragonfly Reply #4 – July 28, 2024, 08:18:36 pm Last January 2023 we upgraded to Lion Safari. The cost with labor was about $2300. This included a DC-to-DC convertor. Last year we had major ice and snow incidences. Temps stayed below freeze for a few weeks. I live in the PNW it rains for several days each year. No issues so far. I tend to be hard on my equipment. If it can break I'll break it. What I'm saying is so far one year and change it's working as it should. Lion Safari UT 1300 BT - Lion Energyglen
Re: Dragonfly Reply #5 – July 28, 2024, 09:11:39 pm Glen,Are those batteries a simple OEM swap? They're pretty pricey.
Re: Dragonfly Reply #6 – July 28, 2024, 10:53:36 pm Hi Will; Direct swap will work. A 'but' here. The batteries are expensive at the outset, but will last longer and provide more useable power over the years, so it makes up for the initial outlay over the years. In order to maximize the usefulness of these expensive batteries, other small changes to surrounding circuitry can make them easier to use, and easier to charge, discharge, and monitor their status. My personal preference as it stands now (prices change fast, along with features) is the SOK brand 12.8v 206 AH battery. Available through Amazon Amazon.com: SOK Battery 12V 206Ah Heated LiFePO4 Metal Box SK12V206H :... They have internal bluetooth, built in heater for cold weather climes, and are UL approved. Two of these fit in my battery box, with removal of the slide out tray. You won't need the tray, since you don't need to slide them out for maintenance. At just 48 pounds each they weigh less than the 65 pound Trojan lead acid each. They are similar in price with the AGM batteries, and IMO far superior to those. Two of these LiFe batteries provide 400 AH, and can be discharged to 20% without harming them. The number one add-on for these, is Solar panels. Four 100 Watt, 12vdc panels are good, https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Monocrystalline-Solar-Compact-Design/dp/B07GF5JY35/ref=asc_df_B07GF5JY35/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=692875362841&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17869982514973384684&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031352&hvtargid=pla-2281435178858&mcid=d761ac5b9889374088e4834c7b7f2cb1&hvocijid=17869982514973384684-B07GF5JY35-&hvexpln=73&gad_source=1&th=1 (about $400 total) but you need to upgrade your solar controller if you go much over 500 watts. Most people here use the controller provided by Lazy Daze in later years. The Blue Sky Energy R3000i. I upgraded my 20A to a 30A. https://www.solar-electric.com/lib/wind-sun/SB3000i-manual.pdf Other changes include a new converter/battery charger. Not too hard to do, about $300. I also added a 2kw true sine wave inverter to run my wife's hair dryer, or microwave oven. That is a great option, but not mandatory. That addition can wait of course, depending on your camping style. You don't say what part of the country you are in, or where you would be camping. RV park with full hook ups, or 'boondocking' makes a big difference; where best to spend money. RonB 1 Likes As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: Dragonfly Reply #7 – July 29, 2024, 09:05:50 am Quote from: Dtbback - July 28, 2024, 09:11:39 pmGlen,Are those batteries a simple OEM swap? They're pretty pricey.Yes and no. The batteries are 12V so ya need to go from a series to a parallel connection. You'll need to re-wire the connections and connection wires need to be the same length. One 12V lithium has more useful power than two 6V lead acid. The key here is you can discharge lithium to 10 to 20% with no harm but lead acid can only go to 50%. Also, the internal resistance of lithium is very very low so 'setting' or 'resting' discharge is much lower than lead acid. Lion Safari UT 1300 BT - Lion Energy
Re: Dragonfly Reply #8 – July 29, 2024, 12:30:56 pm Most converters will work with lithium batteries, solar controllers can be adjusted for better charging,The price of lithium batteries have fallen so that I wouldn’t pay much more than $300 per 100 amps @ 12 volts.Larry 1 Likes
Re: Dragonfly Reply #9 – July 30, 2024, 10:26:46 am Some Dragonfly news:Dragonfly Energy Enters into M Licensing Agreement with Stryten EnergyHopefully their pricing will come down to be more competitive with the Chinese market.
Re: Dragonfly Reply #10 – July 30, 2024, 01:28:18 pm My buddy installed 4 Vestwood 200 ah lithium last year in his Winnebago.The company is Chinese and started out making large commercial lithium batteries.Then they added more smaller batteries for the RV market.He paid $500 each for the 200 ah batteries after looking at some you tube videos showingsomeone cutting like 6 or 7 different batteries open and seeing how they were put together.So far, he hasn't had any issues and the difference in power storage is amazing.The Chinese own the lithium market now, and nobody else can compete with them, at least on price point.And price seems to be the most important thing these days.When my Trojan T-105's need replaced, I'm going with some of the 100 ah ones for cheaper than new T 105's or any AGM battery out there.It's one thing I'm happy the Chinese are flooding the market with.
Re: Dragonfly Reply #11 – July 30, 2024, 07:17:24 pm "Hopefully their pricing will come down to be more competitive with the Chinese market."To my eyes, the crux of that announcement is "The partnership allows Stryten Energy to manufacture and distribute Battle Born Batteries under license, leveraging the brand’s strong reputation." In other words, they'll buy the same cheap Chinese LiFePO4 cells Battle Born uses, and assemble BB batteries under license. They get to take advantage of BB's reputation, while BB gets a wider market.I don't see any reason in the Stryten agreement to hope for lower prices on BB's batteries. That may yet happen--Battle Born probably can't go on forever charging premium prices for mediocre batteries--but this Stryten deal doesn't sound as if it's going to make it happen. Even if Stryten could assemble batteries for less money than Battle Born, it doesn't seem likely they could outcompete companies like SOK who can take advantage of lower wages. 2 Likes
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