engine battery April 14, 2023, 09:10:52 am I thought I had qucik queistion and used one of the older thread on unrelated forum .... I think it may be appropriate to start a new thread on this forum. Curious, and also information will help simpler operation future as well ...During winter I stored RV in a shed and plug it via exention cord. Looking back I shuold have put in the trickle charger on but this is history and lesson learned (left cars longer with less battery issues). I first got a jumper starter and was able to put hydraulic leverlers up and start the engine and was able to drive the truck few feet (no where to go and do not want to drivce in traffic just to charge the battery). To solve any future solution I ordered trickle charger Amazon.com: NOCO GENIUS5, 5A Smart Car Battery Charger, 6V and 12V Automotive... and plan is to use it to charge the battery now and continue to use it for future storage. I put this charger on the battery (without taking off any exixting connection from the battery) yesteray late pm. When I put on the charger battery was showig 1 volt and charger recognized battery and I did not have to use any advance features to force the charger to apply additional voltage ..... 1) RV tail lights were flickering with charger voltage changing so were the lights on the big foot pannel. I check around midnight (6 hours in charging) and battery voltage was showing 2.5, slow but steady progress but flickering lights were unexpected I did some quck research and guess changing voltage from trickle charger was causing the flickering.2) This morning (18 hours into charge), battery is still less then 25% charge. Lights continue to flicker and now I was hearing some fan from the engine. Fan is located inside the engine, checked dashboard and no lights there and yes there is no key in the ignition and no gas consumption either. Voltage was showing up 4V at battery, still slow progress. 3) Engine fan noise may be normal but I could not explain it and last thing I want to do is to screw up anything in the engine. I took battery connections off and reattach the charger (should I done it earlier, don't know yet). Both tail lights and big foot flickering light as expecting are off now and no fan noise for now (and I do not expect to hear it again during charging but will continue to check during entire charging period, not sure how long it would be). I think putting charger connection on top of battery connections was not right as well, with clear connection between charger and battery I was noticing same current fluctuation on the battery as I was seeing at charger, previously I was not noticing voltage fluatin on battery terminal (and guess charging was not optimal, just guess, no idea how it works) Perhaps battery connections were absorbing additional energy for lights but then who knows ...Now few questions ...1) Is tail light/big foot light flickering is normal with trickle charger? if yes, I will not bother removing battery connection for future use of unmonitored trickle charging for months.2) any idea what that fan noise was? Engine was off and seems like some sensor triggered cooling fan but I do not know anything about car/truck working.3) for future use for trickle charging should I take out battery connection? Motorhome will be unattended for months at a time. Guess this is covered in (1).4) engine battery remind me of older cars. Been decades since I have seen these type of batteries where we have to put in water for maintainance. Do I need to put some distilled water to maintain the battery? Equivalent AGM battery is close to $300, wouldn't it be easy to just drive to store and get agm replacement battery? I will first give current charging process to complete. This charger is supposed to tell me if battery is not able to retain the charge and battery need to be replaced. No, I do not have $300 to throw away but it is nothig compared to headache if I get stuck in the middle of no where ... 5) Reason I selected this charger is for the accessory which allow charger to connect cigrate lighter to charge battery. It will make life little easy, I simply put the charger inside the coach, connect one end of the charger to 110 V outlet in the coach (remember I connect coach via extension cord during storage) and attach other end to the cigrate ligter ... issue is, if cigrate lighter is not live without ignition key in place charger will not detect battery and will not work. I can put the ignition key in but for six months it does not make sense. I think one lighter is somewhere on the dashbord and I do believe one is in the glufcompartment. I know that these lighters do have 12V when I turn off the engine but there may a timer ... do anybody knows if one of this lighter is always hot? I think I can check from voltmeter. Other option is to attach o ring connector to the battery terminal perminantly and somehow bring wire outside from front grill and attach charger there. Engine compartment is not that wide and I think I can route the wire but is there a way to get the wire out from the front grill? If this is a difficult task I am fine keeping engine door open while out and put some blinking bright light and fresh cab at engine bay to keep my friends away ...Regards, As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: engine battery Reply #1 – April 14, 2023, 10:02:03 am Muhammad,When you get the battery fully charged, if it does not hold a charge, take it to Ford. Your chassis is still under warranty until 3 years, 36000 miles. And your question about adding water...these are sealed batteries; no maintenance required.I had trouble with my chassis battery and had it replaced this last fall under warranty. It wouldn't hold a charge longer than a week if it was sitting. I was also under the impression that the solarboost3000i sent a trickle charge to the chassis battery after it sent enough to the house batteries. The lights on the panel seem to indicate that it charges the aux battery.Linda 1 Likes
Re: engine battery Reply #2 – April 14, 2023, 10:03:48 am Also, the fan noise is the computers waking up.
Re: engine battery Reply #3 – April 14, 2023, 10:38:50 am Quote from: Linda B - April 14, 2023, 10:03:48 amAlso, the fan noise is the computers waking up. Glad to hear from you Linda after a long .... how is life treating you?Thanks for informaton on the battery, as you can see I am not knowledgeable about cars, I was going to ask dealer to put in water in the battery, now I know better. I am going on Monday for oil change and dealer will check the battery. I know they cover the battery under bumper to bumper warrenty but there is fine print about long term storage exclusion :-) plus I was surprised that big foot is connectd with chasis battery, which may give another reaason to deny free replacement ... I checked the charging status and it is moving along pretty well after I removed the other connections. I think charger should tell me if battery is not able to hold the charge long enough, I will keep the charger attached for next 24 hours. Information from charger along with dealer input will help. I do have about 25 days before I leave and one way or the other I will find out if battery can hold the charge. I am glad I did not wait till the last minute to prepare for the trip. Good input on fan but it does not make sense, why computer will even try to start if ignition is off unless computer is always on when battery is charged. I never seen fan running when car or truck is switched off but I don't know enough.All:About cigrate lighter I found following wording in the manual ... see how wording change from 12V to 110V ,,, explicitly stated that 110 V will not work if ignition is turned but12V outlet wording is little confusing. May be there is a way to program on how long cigrate lighter will stay hot after turning off the engine. This will make it easy to trickle charge the battery from inside the coach.-----12 Volt DC Power PointWARNING: Do not plug optional electrical accessories into the cigar lighter socket. Incorrect use of the cigar lighter can cause damage not covered by the vehicle warranty, and can result in fire or serious injury.Note: When you switch the ignition on, you can use the socket to power 12 volt appliances with a maximum current rating of 15 amps. If the power supply does not work after you switch the ignition off, switch the ignition on.Note: Do not hang any accessory from the accessory plug.Note: Do not use the power point over the vehicle capacity of 12 volt DC 180 watts or a fuse may blow.Note: Always keep the power point caps closed when not in use.Do not insert objects other than an accessory plug into the power point. This damages the power point and may blow the fuse.Run the vehicle for full capacity use of the power point.To prevent the battery from running out of charge:• Do not use the power point longer than necessary when the vehicle is not running.• Do not leave devices plugged in overnight or when you park your vehicle for extended periods.LocationsPower points may be in the following locations:• On the instrument panel.• Inside the glove box.• Behind the driver's seat, upper trim panel.110 Volt AC Power Point (If Equipped)WARNING: Do not keep electrical devices plugged in the power point whenever the device is not in use. Do not use any extension cord with the 110 volt AC power point, since it will defeat the safety protection design. Doing so may cause the power point to overload due to powering multiple devices that can reach beyond the 150 watt load limit and could result in fire or serious injury.Note: The power point turns off when you switch the ignition off, or when the battery voltage drops below 11 volts.You can use the power point for electric devices that require up to 150 watts. It is on the rear of the center console.
Re: engine battery Reply #4 – April 15, 2023, 11:42:03 am Good chance your battery will not hold a reasonable charge after being drained and sitting for so long. I would replace it before leaving on your long trip. If the old battery revives (and even if it does not), I suggest carrying a large lithium battery jumper or a set of jumper cables that will reach from the coach battery to the starting battery. Since the coach battery and starting are both grounded to the chassis, a single jumper cable long enough to reach from the positive terminal of the coach battery to the positive terminal on the starting battery is all you need.The battery trickle charger can be plugged into a lighter plug but check to see which plug, if any, is powered from the starting battery. LD rewired some of the lighter plugs to receive power from the coach, there are variations in different model years.There should be no fans running in the engine compartment whenthe engine is niot running, Good chance you heard the HVAC fan running.Larry 1 Likes
Re: engine battery Reply #5 – April 15, 2023, 01:10:06 pm "I suggest carrying a large lithium battery jumper..."According to his earlier post he has the NOCO 5 jump start device. 1 Likes
Re: engine battery Reply #6 – April 15, 2023, 05:59:53 pm Steve and Larry,Thanks for advice.I claimed bit more space for tools for this trip and beside NOCO GENIUS5 trickle car charger, I am also keeping GOOLOO GP4000 Jump Starter. I dont expect to use Noco during the trip but for jump start, hope it will be used only to help somebody ele ....As for battery, when I found the problem, it had ony 1V. I put the trickle charger for two days and it did go from quater to half to one third before jumping back to quater ...... NOCO have two functions one to force start (when battery is below 1V) and second function is review (I don't know what this small piece of equipment does but claim is this function will clean the electrodes). I was not expecting much but nothing to loose, I am seeing the dealer on Monday anyways and have a jumper start with me so I used the review mode. It ran for four hours without any complain about battery. Last evening I started recharging the battery process again, checked this morning and charging level was at three quaterbut and in the afternoon it seems that noco is trying to charge it fully. Votage on the battery was 13.4V (never seen it above 11V before). Tomottow I have to take the motorhome out of the shed anyway to presureize plumbing and put in annual black tank chemical before driving it to the dealer on Monday. I will have two data points one from Noco (yet another function which show if battery is not able to keep the charge) and one from dealer about battery'a health. I will also keep motorhome idle for two weeks and if there is any issue at all I will simply replace battery with AGM.Larry, I was curious about the fan, not sure what is the fan you mentioned but I will use shaikh google to find out.PS: Pretty long message from me, please understand this is not my first language :-)Edit: After writing above message I did go to shed to check battery charging progress and NOCO (trickle charger) is showing solid Green which according to the manual battery is fully chaged and NOCO is in trickle mode. I will keep the charger in place till late tomorrow am in case NOCO think battery is not able to hold the charge. While battery is disconnected it is easy to check which lighter is wired with engine battery. I can also uncrews Noco battery clips to expose two rings connections can be perminantly mount to the battery only possible if I find a way to bring a wire out from front grill. NOCO is a trickle charger and I was impressed about the algorithm ... it was putting just a little more voltage on the battery then battery capacity at any instance. Took loooong time to bring to to full charge, I am glad I was patient but no victory yet, lets see the result little longer ... was hoping to install new battery but there is no indicator so far that battery is bad.
Re: engine battery Reply #7 – April 15, 2023, 08:33:01 pm A lead-acid battery that has discharged down to 1 volt is one I would not put any trust in, regardless of whether it appears to have been recharged. Rather than wait to see how it behaves, I'd just replace it. 1 Likes
Re: engine battery Reply #8 – April 15, 2023, 08:35:47 pm Quote from: Andy Baird - April 15, 2023, 08:33:01 pmA lead-acid battery that has discharged down to 1 volt is one I would not put any trust in, regardless of whether it appears to have been recharged. Rather than wait to see how it behaves, I'd just replace it.Andy,I do trust your judgement .. both Rich and Larry also asked me not to trust voltmeter readings alone ... will do whatever I can to perform load test and will push dealer to use tools in their disposal to test the battery as well .. ThanksThanks
Re: engine battery Reply #9 – April 16, 2023, 10:09:55 am The 'proper' way to 'trust' battery voltage is to let the lead acid battery set unused with nothing attached for at least 24 hours. At this point, all the chemistry has settled down. You can measure the voltage at that point and get some sort of reading that matters. But any lead acid battery that has gone to 1 volt is damaged no matter what. glen 2 Likes
Re: engine battery Reply #10 – April 16, 2023, 01:04:18 pm Glen,Thanks.If I do not have this group, I am satisfied with battery after performed some testing this morning but based on experienced input I will ask dealer to change the battery no matter what. Does not make sense to increase the risk during this long trip. Lesson learned and next time I will put trickle charger if I have to store the motorhome (not that I am lazy, I did not know built in trickle charger only work with solar energy).For now I have to figure out why kitchen focet is not working when all the other focets are working fine after dewinterization .... this was the first focet I turned on and my theory is that some particles got stuck in first focet I turned on and just need to disassemble the focet and clean it ... will do some reseach before disassembling anything .... all the plumping looks fine, no visible leak or intermittent pump starting. Keep learning and with time I am having courage to tackle few problems on the road and not scared of complicated mechanism. Still a long way to go ...Glad to have this family to help me.Regards,Edit: tons of information here on cleaning the foucet and this video will help as well .... need CLR but seems like my wife can use it for other purposes as well at home https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNP-NYWsCyA 1 Likes
Re: engine battery Reply #11 – April 18, 2023, 12:41:49 pm Just want to put the closure ... dealer changed the battery under warranty... not sure if it would have happen without my pressure. I did go for oil change but after hearing about upcoming trip dealer did some proactive maintenance (of course with my permission)Not sure how much of maintenance really needed or required. Truck has about 23K but in absence of any knowledge or background I take professional advice:-). If nothing else will give some peace of mind.As for battery it was free under warranty but I saw a line item on invoice about battery prep! If there is no other pressing need we can close this thread.Thanks for your input and help. Hope I will be able to start depositing someday.RegardsEdit: before I move forward some more info which may help somebody in future in my shoes 1) at least in 2021 MB dashboard cigrate lighter is connected with the engine battery and cigrate lighter is always hot 2) In my senario where a) storage is under the shed and there is no sun light to trickle charge the engine battery b) shore power is available (and have a 110 socket close to driver cockpit), "NOCO GENIUS5" + "NOCO GC003 X-Connect 12V Dual-Size Male Plug Accessory for NOCO Genius Smart Battery Chargers" is a simple and easy way to trickle cigrate the battery via cigrate lighter connection. Just one unknown to me .... intial stage of charging when battery was at low voltage, charger was using pulses of currents and I noticed pulses changed to constant current/voltage once battery was in a better shape. Fluctuations in power may cause car electronics issues and I will watchng it and in the worst case I might have to just throwaway cigrate lighter adaptor (I doubt I will see power fluctuation again) 2 Likes
Re: engine battery Reply #12 – April 19, 2023, 02:24:24 pm Quote from: Muhammad - April 18, 2023, 12:41:49 pmbefore I move forward some more info which may help somebody in future in my shoes 1) at least in 2021 MB dashboard cigrate lighter is connected with the engine battery and cigrate lighter is always hotMuhammad,Through trial and error I discovered something about the dashboard cigarette lighter that you may find interesting. On my 2021 MB the cigarette lighter does stay hot after turning off the key as long as there is a load present on the plug. There seems to be a “keep alive” circuit built in that will keep the plug hot as long as there is some amount of current draw. Once you pull the plug out of the cigarette lighter with the key off, it will power off the cigarette lighter after a few minutes. Turning the key on/off will reset the keep alive circuit and power the cigarette lighter again.The thing I don’t know is what effect your battery charger will have on the keep alive circuit since current is flowing into the battery instead of out of the battery. There may be no difference at all, it depends on how the circuit was designed. You may have to experiment some to determine if the function of the cigarette lighter and keep alive circuit meet your needs.Again… if the cigarette lighter is off when the key is off, just momentarily turn the key on and off to reset the keep alive circuit.- John
Re: engine battery Reply #13 – April 19, 2023, 05:20:06 pm "On my 2021 MB the cigarette lighter does stay hot after turning off the key as long as there is a load..."JohnI also stumbled upon this while searching for the phantom that was pulling my start battery down over a short period of idleness. Turned out to be my GPS which I would leave plugged in even while not in use. Unplugging the GPS cured the problem!
Re: engine battery Reply #14 – April 19, 2023, 06:37:12 pm Quote from: Lazy Bones - April 19, 2023, 05:20:06 pm"On my 2021 MB the cigarette lighter does stay hot after turning off the key as long as there is a load..."JohnI also stumbled upon this while searching for the phantom that was pulling my start battery down over a short period of idleness. Turned out to be my GPS which I would leave plugged in even while not in use. Unplugging the GPS cured the problem! Ultra Gauges will do the same, I need to unplug the one in my Cherokee or it will drain the battery in a week.It appears many newer cars and trucks leave the electrical power connected for a few minutes before cutting it off. This can cause problems when towing hybrid vehicles with electrically boosted brakes.LarryLarry
Re: engine battery Reply #15 – April 19, 2023, 06:52:54 pm I think I checked voltage when RV was parked for few hrs .... Adaptor between citrate lighter and charger should be delivered soon. Will post my findings ....
Re: engine battery Reply #16 – April 19, 2023, 07:33:48 pm John,You saved me from wasting the time .... system did not detect the battery (there is light which comes up in case any voltage is present). Putting the key in the ignition and taking it out right away did the magic. Will check in an hour or so and if your observations are correct system should continue to stay in trickle charging mode indefinately ....Did not notice any light blinking but not claiming the victory yet ....I will report back in case of any anamoly otherwise this experiment is successful. I am grateful to be surrounded by folks who are smarter then me.Ron, thanks again for suggesting trickle charger otherwise I would be in the same position a year from now.Regards,
Re: engine battery Reply #17 – April 19, 2023, 10:17:36 pm come back with a question ... cigrate lighter is hot for about two hours ... no need to get exact readings for this experiment and I did not bother ... it was hot after 1 hrs and there was no power after about 2-2.5 hrs. when i put key in ignition connection established (as advertised by vendor). it is pretty secure location (we do not lock our home) beside security is there any other issue keeping the key in the ignition? I did not move the key in the ignition and there are no lights on the dashboard or radio pannel ....for now it is just the experiment, for long term storage, if keeping the key in the ignition is an issue i can simply put the ring connection in the battery and hopefully bring the wire out from the front grill and attach charger there but if there is no harm to battery or truck by keeping the key in the ignition i rather have the convinence of keeping the charger inside. i don't know enough and will rely on your wisdom.i will also keep an eye open for 1) charger continue to be connected by just keeping the key in the ignition (most probably it will stay connected) 2) and charger continue to show battery fully chaged (which it is showing right inow), this will be a proof that battery discharge, if any, is compensated by trickle charger.Edit: A quick search on google indicate possible issue with ignition coil warming (does not make sense ignition is not on) and BCM (new term for me, body control module) issues iovertime. Enough warning to stay with the easy solution of putting the ring connection perminantly whenever I store the motorhome next time.
Re: engine battery Reply #18 – April 20, 2023, 12:08:55 pm If the electrical remains on while charging through the cigarette lighter plug, you may not be getting a full or any charge due to the electrical system's power draw while still energized.IMO, it would be preferable to attach the battery charger directly to the battery and eliminate any problems or having to leave the key in the ignition.Larry 1 Likes
Re: engine battery Reply #19 – April 20, 2023, 01:07:33 pm Quote from: Larry W - April 20, 2023, 12:08:55 pmIf the electrical remains on while charging through the cigarette lighter plug, you may not be getting a full or any charge due to the electrical system's power draw while still energized.IMO, it would be preferable to attach the battery charger directly to the battery and eliminate any problems or having to leave the key in the ignition.LarryThanks Larry. I am taking your advice and will connect charger directly to the battery. Adaptor is on its way back to Amazon.My next trip is in 20 days, 1) for how long I can safely park RV under the shed without trickle charger 2) during next trip, we will be staying few places for 7-10 days, is my assumption that RV has built in chasis battery trickle charger which work with solar is right?Regards,
Re: engine battery Reply #20 – April 20, 2023, 02:55:09 pm For 15 years I left my ‘06 TK in outside storage for weeks at a time, occasionally a month or more, without any problems with the starting battery. No trickle charger, no disconnects (although I never left any device like a GPS plugged in). Surely an unattended week or ten days should not pose a problem on a decent battery. I replaced my batteries twice: at 6-7 year intervals, with whatever Costco was selling. Was I just lucky? How about others? — Jon
Re: engine battery Reply #21 – April 20, 2023, 05:19:51 pm I’ve left my 2017 TK inside, unplugged for 4-6 weeks without issue. But I am very careful (now) to turn off power drains.
Re: engine battery Reply #22 – April 20, 2023, 06:00:42 pm "Was I just lucky? How about others? — "Not just luck, that's the way it's supposed to be... after all, they are called 'Storage Batteries' are they not?Perhaps it's lack of understanding how automotive electrical systems work, it's the same for motor homes as it is for automobiles!
Re: engine battery Reply #23 – April 20, 2023, 06:07:14 pm A good battery should be able to start the engine after two months, in warm weather.I believe your LD has a Blue Sky 3000i solar controller that is wired to charge the starting battery, when solar is available. If so, there is nothing to worry about.Larry
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