What wires do I tap into? July 14, 2021, 06:49:43 pm Hi All,I'm installing a small fan on the underside of a cabinet to circulate air inside my LD when I don't want the vent fans running. I have taken apart the cabinet and found a wiring bundle and traced it. I'm trying to figure out which wires I should tap. There are 3 red wires, 3 white wires, a green and a yellow. The green and yellow go to a speaker..those are out. One red and white go to a 12v outlet, I think I should let that stay by itself. That leaves 2 more reds and 2 more whites. They lead to the overhead area where there is one LED light and a vent fan, and they might traverse over to the TV. I think I should pick a red wire that has the least load, but I don't know which one doesn't have the vent fan on it. And then I'm stumped about the whites. How do I tell which one matches up to which red? Does it matter which one I choose? Aren't the whites all interconnected? The circuit board is no help as there are 3 LED light circuits, one 12v outlet circuit, and one TV outlet circuit. I guess I could pull fuses to see what exactly is on each circuit, but that wouldn't tell me what wire belongs to what circuit.Help!Linda
Re: What wires do I tap into? Reply #1 – July 14, 2021, 08:32:08 pm Some more info...I just mapped the circuits for the fuses1 not used(electric step)2 15a Labeled LED lights (if needed) there is a red wire connected, but removing fuse does nothing 3 15a Labeled LED lights. 2 red wires connected here controls 14 LED lights, stove hood, overhead and mid cabin fans, pass. side 12v outlet, TV 12v outlet4 15a Labeled LED lights Shower light, bath fan, bath area overhead LED5 15a Labeled 12v receptacle 12v outlet under dinette and over dinette couch6 7.5a Labeled TV/Antenna power amplifier That's right TV and Antenna amp7-11 appliances, water pump, etcSo there is a bunch of stuff on that #3 circuit and I'm not sure what's up with the #2. I think they're wired in parallel because I had to remove both 2 and 3 to get the lights to go out 2 or 3 didn't do anything by themselves. Can you wire a set of fuses in parallel? Linda
Re: What wires do I tap into? Reply #2 – July 14, 2021, 10:51:10 pm Quote from: Linda B - July 14, 2021, 06:49:43 pm I think they're wired in parallel because I had to remove both 2 and 3 to get the lights to go out 2 or 3 didn't do anything by themselves. Can you wire a set of fuses in parallel?Linda,Yes, I’ve seen fuses wired in parallel, although it’s not a good practice in my opinion.I don’t think it really matters which red/white wire pair you tap into to power the fan. The new fan at most will only draw 1 or 2 amps which can be easily handled by the existing wires and fuse(s). Most likely the red wire is the +12v side of the circuit and the white wire is the return ground. Pick one of the red wires and tap into it with the (+) positive fan wire, then do the same with the (-) negative fan wire and one of the white wires.BTW - you should probably use crimped connectors instead of wire nuts so things don’t rattle apart.Good luck with your project,- John
Re: What wires do I tap into? Reply #3 – July 14, 2021, 11:00:46 pm So Linda, is the fan for circulating air when the LD is in storage?
Re: What wires do I tap into? Reply #4 – July 14, 2021, 11:48:24 pm Quote from: HiLola - July 14, 2021, 11:00:46 pmSo Linda, is the fan for circulating air when the LD is in storage?No, just sometimes you need a bit of a breeze and don't need outside air. Kinda like a ceiling fan. Just to stir things up 1 Likes
Re: What wires do I tap into? Reply #5 – July 15, 2021, 04:33:26 am Out of curiosity, what fan did you install? For what it worth, I've been happy with Hella Turbo fans. But even better are Caframo's Sirocco II fans, which are quieter and move more air. Both of these are marine gear, and hence not cheap, but in my experience, they're well worthwhile.
Re: What wires do I tap into? Reply #6 – July 15, 2021, 08:57:22 am Quote from: Andy Baird - July 15, 2021, 04:33:26 amOut of curiosity, what fan did you install? For what it worth, I've been happy with Hella Turbo fans. But even better are Caframo's Sirocco II fans, which are quieter and move more air. Both of these are marine gear, and hence not cheap, but in my experience, they're well worthwhile.Andy,I'm using Amazon.com: Bora Fan from SEEKR by Caframo: Sports & Outdoors, a bit smaller and not quite as expensive as the Sirocco II, but it has a grill on the back side which the Sirocco doesn't. I figure I need that protection because of my roommates (cats). As you say, it does move lots of air and it is quiet. It has a three speed switch on the face of the fan, but I'm also wiring in an on/off rocker switch next to it on the cabinet baseThe only objection to this fan that you don't see anywhere is that they have a ferrite bead on the power wire about 4" from the fan base. It is blow molded there with no way to remove it without damaging the wire. I even took apart the fan to see if I could temporarily remove the wire from the fan side and reconnect it after threading the wire through the cabinet. It is soldered in place to a circuit board that controls the 3 speed switch. I ended up zip tying it to the back of the fan in an inconspicuous place (after consulting youtube.)Linda As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: What wires do I tap into? Reply #7 – July 15, 2021, 09:24:50 am Quote from: JohnR - July 14, 2021, 10:51:10 pmLinda,Yes, I’ve seen fuses wired in parallel, although it’s not a good practice in my opinion.I don’t think it really matters which red/white wire pair you tap into to power the fan. The new fan at most will only draw 1 or 2 amps which can be easily handled by the existing wires and fuse(s). Most likely the red wire is the +12v side of the circuit and the white wire is the return ground. Pick one of the red wires and tap into it with the (+) positive fan wire, then do the same with the (-) negative fan wire and one of the white wires.BTW - you should probably use crimped connectors instead of wire nuts so things don’t rattle apart.Good luck with your project,- JohnThanks John,I think LD may use the #2 as an extra place to connect a wire when a customer asks for electrical add ons as I did? Still in the same circuit, but another place to jam in a wire. It does say "if needed". Yeah, I'm using crimps on the wire extensions although I think I'm going to use Wago lever nuts to connect the 3 way connections (covered in 3m 33 tape). I'm also going to get out my multi-meter and see for sure which is + and - although it should be +red and -white as you say. I've had that meter for a while and I'll have to read the directions to figure it out, but I will.Linda 1 Likes
Re: What wires do I tap into? Reply #8 – July 15, 2021, 11:49:44 am Quote from: Linda B - July 15, 2021, 08:57:22 amThe only objection to this fan that you don't see anywhere is that they have a ferrite bead on the power wire about 4" from the fan base. It is blow molded there with no way to remove it without damaging the wire. I even took apart the fan to see if I could temporarily remove the wire from the fan side and reconnect it after threading the wire through the cabinet. It is soldered in place to a circuit board that controls the 3 speed switch. I ended up zip tying it to the back of the fan in an inconspicuous place (after consulting youtube.)Linda,Yeah, it’s good that you left the ferrite bead on the power cord. The FCC sets radiated emission limits on products sold in the US so they don’t interfere with other electronic devices. The fan would still work if you had cut it off, but you may have noticed some odd behavior with your radio, tv, display panel, etc.Please let us know how everything turns out. The Bora fan looks like a nice fan. I’ve added it to my Amazon wishlist - John
Re: What wires do I tap into? Reply #9 – July 15, 2021, 12:42:51 pm I looked at the Bora, but ended up buying a couple of Sirocco II fans, based on a boating friend's recommendation. The Bora looks good, though, and it's less expensive. Let us know how you like it. (I've also used Caframo's 747 and 757 fans... but with no blade guard, you wouldn't want one of those where your cat could tangle with it.)Having a fan mounted under a cabinet in the dinette area, and another one at the foot of the bed, is a big improvement in comfort, especially when dry camping. In fact, back in the Eighties Lazy Daze used to install fans in these locations as standard features. They even had a switch at the head of the bed to control the fan at the foot of the bed. It's too bad they stopped doing that."they have a ferrite bead on the power wire about 4" from the fan base."Yes, I do get tired of the proliferating ferrite cores. I know they can serve a useful noise-suppression function, but all these lumps can get in the way. As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: What wires do I tap into? Reply #10 – July 15, 2021, 02:07:46 pm Hi Linda; As Andy noted those ferrite lumps are for electrical noise suppression. If there is room, they can be re-located inside the fan housing. That is where they should be. I suspect it is for the surge when the switch is operated on or off. Often modern electronics includes a soft start/stop current control routinely. I would hope that these fans are electronically commutated DC motors. RonB
Re: What wires do I tap into? Reply #11 – July 15, 2021, 03:31:57 pm Quote from: Linda B - July 15, 2021, 09:24:50 am Yeah, I'm using crimps on the wire extensions although I think I'm going to use Wago lever nuts to connect the 3 way connections (covered in 3M 33 tape). I see Wago-style lever nuts in many devices but I didn't know they could be bought separately, for personal projects.Nice that they are rated for use in high vibration and corrosive environments.These could save a lot of time and frustration in doing home and RV electrical work.221 sample order | WAGO USAWAGO 221 LEVER-NUTS 72pc Compact Wire Splicing Connector Assortment....Larry As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: What wires do I tap into? Reply #12 – July 15, 2021, 06:00:45 pm Most of the wiring connections in my 2017 Airstream were done with Walmart-grade crimped butt splices. (I replaced them with FTZ Crimp 'n' Seal butt splices.) In my 2019 Airstream, the same connections were made with Wago connectors. I think the Wago connectors are an improvement, although I'm not convinced that they're better than Crimp 'n' Seal splices, properly crimped and shrunk for a physically strong, waterproof, gas-tight seal.However, Wago connectors are very easy to work with, require no special crimping tools... and when you need to bring more than two wires together, they are way easier than anything I can do with butt splices. Their one drawback is that they're relatively bulky. If you have wires coming out of a hole (e.g., for lighting, fans etc.), it had better be a big hole if you want to stuff a couple of Wago connectors back inside.Also, the Wago connectors I've seen are only usable with wire up to 12 gauge. Since much of my RV's DC wiring is 10 gauge, that's a limitation. 1 Likes
Re: What wires do I tap into? Reply #13 – July 15, 2021, 08:09:56 pm Quote from: Andy Baird - July 15, 2021, 06:00:45 pmMost of the wiring connections in my 2017 Airstream were done with Walmart-grade crimped butt splices. (I replaced them with FTZ Crimp 'n' Seal butt splices.) In my 2019 Airstream, the same connections were made with Wago connectors. I think the Wago connectors are an improvement, although I'm not convinced that they're better than Crimp 'n' Seal splices, properly crimped and shrunk for a physically strong, waterproof, gas-tight seal.However, Wago connectors are very easy to work with, require no special crimping tools... and when you need to bring more than two wires together, they are way easier than anything I can do with butt splices. Their one drawback is that they're relatively bulky. If you have wires coming out of a hole (e.g., for lighting, fans etc.), it had better be a big hole if you want to stuff a couple of Wago connectors back inside.Also, the Wago connectors I've seen are only usable with wire up to 12 gauge. Since much of my RV's DC wiring is 10 gauge, that's a limitation.Wago connectors come in either 24-12-gauge or 20-10-gauge.Amazon.com: Wago 221-612 LEVER-NUTS 10AWG 2 Conductor Compact Wire Connectors...As long as the connectors are not exposed to the elements, the Wagos should work fine for RV use and the time saved using them easily makes up for the minimal cost, plus it can be made to look very neat and tidy. Wago's website shows a 221 EX connector, designed for extreme and hazardous applications. I couldn't find out any more about them or their availability.Applying a little dielectric grease to the wire and Wago connection would help ensure a long life.A crimped connection, sealed with adhesive shrink tubing is as good as it gets it and is overkill for many RV applications. Battery cables and any high amperage circuits get the full crimp and seal job, using marine-grade crimps and adhesive shrink tubing. I'm still using lead-acid batteries and the acid flumes will attack the battery cable connections anyplace it can access metal.For those who plan on large electrical upgrades, consider buying a pro-grade crimper for the thick cables that will be used, it will produce a much higher quality crimp. A large cable cutter is also very handy.Specialty tools needed for inverter installation | Top- adju… | FlickrLarry As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: What wires do I tap into? Reply #14 – July 15, 2021, 08:26:23 pm "consider buying a pro-grade crimper for the thick cables that will be used, it will produce a much higher quality crimp. A large cable cutter is also very handy."Amen! That big crimper is essential for heavy-gauge cables. I remember Mike Sylvester making cables for Skylark back in 2006 using a hammered crimper. He slipped, smashed his thumb, and had to go to the emergency room, poor guy. I wish I'd known about the big FTZ crimper back then! It would have saved Mike a world of pain.
Re: What wires do I tap into? Reply #15 – July 18, 2021, 09:32:17 am Project is done, almost. Fan is wired and blowing air nicely. I have an on/off switch wired in so I can set the 3/way on the front of the fan to my preferred speed and leave it. Just have to clean up the mess and put the cabinet back together. This time with screws instead of staples. 8 Likes
Re: What wires do I tap into? Reply #16 – July 18, 2021, 01:13:11 pm Very workmanlike, Linda. I wish all my wiring jobs were as neat.
Re: What wires do I tap into? Reply #17 – July 18, 2021, 01:27:45 pm Nice Job Linda. I wish LD would use screws on the access panels and not staples. At least they didn't use glue on the removable panel. RonB
Re: What wires do I tap into? Reply #18 – July 18, 2021, 09:04:56 pm Very nice job! That looks better than most professional electrician jobs.
Re: What wires do I tap into? Reply #19 – July 18, 2021, 10:51:54 pm OK, Linda, I’m sending you my address; bring wires, Wagos, and that pro-grade crimper! 3 Likes
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