Quick Electrical System Hack January 29, 2021, 10:35:22 am Folks,I just wanted to share a quick hack that I did to create easier access to the 20 amp circuit that is used by the microwave. I think this would be the same across all LD floor plans.Back in December, we were at Watchman campground in Zion NP, where all of the sites have electrical hookup. This felt like real luxury after six weeks off-grid. It was very cold in the mornings (~20 degrees (F)), so we were constantly running a small 1500W space heater in the back. Of course, it was plugged into that single 15 amp circuit that supports all of the 120V outlets around the coach, so when my wife tried to run her instant pot from one of the outlets above the kitchen counter, the breaker kicked.I had noticed from the electrical panel that the microwave was on a different circuit, a 20 amp one, so we cleared the cupboard to the left of the microwave to try to see how it was connected. It's simply plugged into a standard outlet in back, to the left. Since we had with us a short triple outlet extension cord, we just reached back and plugged it into the free receptacle, and could then easily reach the extension cord receptacles. This allowed us to produce heat and run the instant pot at the same time.Right away we thought that it would be really nice to "formalize" this convenience by adding a new 120V outlet next to the existing 12V and 120V outlets above the counter, and resolved to do this when we got home.Some time ago, when we decided to extend one of the two receptacles on our 1000W inverter to a new outlet near the back of the coach, I used a 20 amp/125 volt straight blade angle plug, Leviton 5366-CA - 20 Amp 125 Volt 2 Pole Straight Blade Plug (Angle), to which I attached a length of 12-gauge Romex cable that I was able to run through the bottom kitchen cabinets, then behind the toilet, behind the shower and finally to the new outlet. Of course now one of the the two inverter receptacles is taken up with the angle plug, but that's no problem.This worked well, so I decided to use the same approach to add the new outlet above the counter. The most difficult part of this was cutting the hole for the new outlet box in the soffit above the counter. I just used a drill/keyhole saw combination. The photos below show details of the opening with the microwave removed. (1) angle plug in the existing outlet, (2) Romex from angle plug to new outlet box (blue), (3) new outlet in soffit.This was a pretty simple hack, and well worth the effort.Regards,Tim 6 Likes
Re: Quick Electrical System Hack Reply #2 – January 29, 2021, 11:07:13 am https://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?action=media;sa=album;in=281I removed the coffeemaker in our 02 and threaded a power strip into the 20 amp outlet. Nice work, Tim. Chris 2 Likes
Re: Quick Electrical System Hack Reply #3 – January 29, 2021, 11:13:43 am Chris, I like your “banana hammock”!
Re: Quick Electrical System Hack Reply #4 – January 29, 2021, 12:15:47 pm Nice hack Tim, Talking mid bath here.I don't know where your inverter is. I put ours on the wall behind the driver's seat, which is within 16's of the house batteries.I followed a like route to the back as you did, but ran the Romex under the cabinets behind the freshwater tank. Two ways to skin a cat. I terminated the Romex next to the existing ac outlet, on the exterior bath wall, with a female plug. An extension cord leads from there to a power strip on the back wall. If on shore power I plug the extension into the wall outlet. If dry camping I plug the extension into the line from the inverter. Real simple. It's great to have 120v in the back for a variety of appliances.
Re: Quick Electrical System Hack Reply #5 – January 29, 2021, 03:23:53 pm Chris, Tim, and others; I hate to 'rain on your parade', but as far as I know, the microwave circuitry is unprotected by a GFCI source. If you test the GFCI in your power distribution panel, (push the test button), you should lose all power at your inside receptacles. If your extensions don't shut off, especially within 6 feet of the water faucets at your sink, then it is unsafe. (and possibly illegal too) The best plan is to replace the breaker for the microwave, in the power distribution panel, with another GFCI breaker. You could install a GFCI outlet at that plug behind the microwave, but resetting it would be difficult. The Home Depot Logo The output's from the inverter likely are protected, and the hot lead isn't referenced to anywhere, except the neutral. The ground on those outlets is connected to the motorhome system ground. The phase of the inverter is totally different than either the shore power or generator phase. Don's installation is safe. (i'm sure he meant 16", not 16') Tim, in another thread you asked what those electrical items were. They are circuit breakers. The inside(right) photo missed the top of the 'house' 12v.dc breaker. There should be a small black button there. Press to reset. The other bigger breaker inside the battery box protects the line going to the alternator. Looks like a 150 Amps. (hard to read). The small thing below it is the temperature sensor for the SB3000i solar controller. The solar controller circuit breaker about 30A. should be located inside near the house 12vdc breaker in picture number 2. RonB (edited to put in link) 2 Likes
Re: Quick Electrical System Hack Reply #6 – January 29, 2021, 04:12:32 pm "The small thing below it is the temperature sensor for the SB3000i solar controller. "Ron, I saw something about that in the BlueSky documentation. So if there is a temperature sensor, that means the controller has temperature compensation, correct?
Re: Quick Electrical System Hack Reply #7 – January 29, 2021, 07:40:12 pm RonB, Thanks for your comments above, about the lack of GFCI protection on that circuit. I liked your suggestion of simply replacing the breaker for that circuit with a GFCI breaker. Will definitely follow up.Knowledgeable feedback like yours is one of the most important reasons for taking the time to do these write-ups.Regards,Tim
Re: Quick Electrical System Hack Reply #8 – January 30, 2021, 11:39:07 am Don,Here's a little more detail on the 12-gauge Romex routing that I did for the inverter extension:First, my inverter is located inside the cabinet below the refrigerator. I built a small frame for it, attached it to this frame, and then bolted the frame through the cabinet wall on the right side, just behind the driver's seat (see photo 1). The house battery compartment is directly behind it, so the cable run is very short. This is very close to where you located your inverter.I routed the Romex across the back of the cabinet to the left, then into the adjacent cabinet along the front of the fresh water tank, then into the area where the water pump is (beneath the cabinet floor under the sink), then into the bathroom cabinet under the sink, toward the outer wall, behind the toilet, then between the shower stall and the outer wall. I was able to feed the cable up to the wiring chase, which can be accessed through a small door held in place with screws (see photo 2), just above the right end of the driver's side sofa. I pulled the cable through, using this little door opening, and then routed it back through the opening, into the tight space between the inside of the wall and the back of the shower stall, down to an existing 120V single outlet near the floor, just to the left of the bathroom door. I was able to replace this single outlet box with a double, placing the original 15-amp receptacle on the left, and installing the new 20-amp inverter receptacle on the right (see photo 3). Note that the inverter receptacle is grey, distinguishing it from the house receptacle (dark brown).This arrangement has worked very well.Regards,Tim 2 Likes
Re: Quick Electrical System Hack Reply #9 – January 30, 2021, 11:58:20 am "I was able to feed the cable up to the wiring chase, which can be accessed through a small door held in place with screws (see photo 2), just above the right end of the driver's side sofa."Is that the little door to access the shower valves?
Re: Quick Electrical System Hack Reply #10 – January 30, 2021, 12:00:58 pm RonB,I did like the idea of replacing the breaker for the microwave circuit with a GFCI breaker, but since the GFCI breaker is wider, I fear that it will not fit in the panel. The existing microwave breaker is actually the left side of a double 20-amp breaker, with the Dometic air/heat pump breaker on the right (see photo).I was thinking of replacing the just the new receptacle that I added above the sink area with a GFCI receptacle. Do you see any problem with this? Would it be safe and code-compliant?Thanks,Tim
Re: Quick Electrical System Hack Reply #11 – January 30, 2021, 12:22:52 pm HiLola,Yes, I believe you are correct. The main purpose of that little opening is to access the shower plumbing.It also provides access to the TV cable, which is routed up through there. I also used this "chase" to route my shielded cell antenna cable up to the shelves above where I keep my cell booster.Regards,Tim 1 Likes
Re: Quick Electrical System Hack Reply #12 – January 30, 2021, 12:53:40 pm Hi Tim, Yes, the outlet can be a GFCI. They make ones that are thinner for shallow boxes, or boxes that have a lot of wires. I prefer that each outlet have set, and reset buttons. The audible click as someone plugs in a 'defective' appliance is right there, not somewhere else, especially in 'stick and brick' housing. Also other outlets don't go off when testing a single outlet.Slim GFCI Outlets from Leviton and Leviton N7599-W 15-Amp 125-Volt SmartLock Pro Slim Non-Tamper-Resistant.... RonB As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: Quick Electrical System Hack Reply #13 – January 30, 2021, 05:59:38 pm Quote from: T&F - January 30, 2021, 12:00:58 pmI was thinking of replacing the just the new receptacle that I added above the sink area with a GFCI receptacle. Do you see any problem with this? Would it be safe and code-compliant?Changing a regular outlet to a GFI outlet is easy and inexpensive, any hardware store will have them.As long as the ground is good, it is legal and up to code. As Ron pointed out, make sure the box has the depth needed for the GFI receptacle.Interestingly, in old houses without ground wires, a GFI receptacle is a legal, safety upgrade for use in bathrooms. A GFI measures the power going and out of an outlet, if there is even a slight difference, the GFI detects it and shuts the circuit off. A GFI is only effective for shorts to ground. If you grab onto a pair of hot wires, the GFI will not detect that you are being shocked if all the power returns and none goes to the ground.Larry
Re: Quick Electrical System Hack Reply #14 – February 17, 2021, 02:16:24 pm Okay,Finally got around to swapping out the 20 amp outlet above the sink area to a GFCI version ( https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-20-Amp-Self-Test-SmartlockPro-Slim-Duplex-GFCI-Outlet-White-R12-GFNT2-0RW/205996739 ). See photo below.I was happy that this slim model went into the low profile box with no problem.Thanks,Tim 1 Likes
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