Picking the brains of an electrician

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Picking the brains of an electrician

October 16, 2020, 11:14:09 am

Hello to the FOLD. I have a question about the charger to a battery operated vacuum I have.

I want to know if I change the plug to 12v, will it continue to charge the battery properly. The wall plug is currently an AC to DC converter plug. It says Input 100-240v 50/60hz 0.6a, Output 26.5v 500 ma If I rewire it for a DC 12v plug, will it still charge?

I'd like to be able to charge without the generator or shore power (like when driving). I have no problem rewiring it properly (I can identify + and - wires and can solder passably) but I don't have the knowledge to verify that it will still charge the vacuum's battery.

Any assistance is appreciated.

Thanks, Linda

Re: Picking the brains of an electrician

Reply #1 – October 16, 2020, 11:20:20 am

No. Plug the charger into an inverter - since the output DC voltage is an offbeat one, any other solution will be more expensive and involved than simply using a small inverter. A 100W inverter would suffice. Since the charger specifies 100 - 240V input, it is an efficient PWM design to start.

Steve

Re: Picking the brains of an electrician

Reply #2 – October 16, 2020, 11:31:06 am

I am not an electrician. I could ask my SIL, but he hates 12v. He deals with 3-phase and such.

Anyway, I would GUESS it would charge, but slowly.

May I suggest, you install an inverter so you can charge whatever needs charging.
They work backwards from a converter, they convert the chassis batteries 12v DC current to 120v AC. So you could plug your vacuum brick into the inverter.

You want to connect an inverter as close to the batteries as you can. On a mid-bath, I found behind the driver's seat to be out of the way and only a foot or so from the batteries.

They come in a bewildering array of output wattages and you can spend from less than $50 to over $2,000. I have been happy with one from Harbor Freight, 2000w about $100. Beware of getting one less than 1000w as you may find it just can not do what needs to be done.

You can plug directly in it, you can plug an extension cord into it, you can run a concealed line to a desired part of the rig.

More info here, The Lazy Daze Companion: inverter

Re: Picking the brains of an electrician

Reply #3 – October 16, 2020, 11:36:11 am

I agree with the suggestions to use a small inverter. We carried a couple of small inverters when we had our LD. They were useful for charging a lot of small devices with a 120VAC "brick". Without knowing the details of your vacuum's battery charging circuitry, I wouldn't even guess. But since it gets 26.5VDC, I'd doubt 12VDC would work to fully charge the battery (and could cause damage).

Art

Re: Picking the brains of an electrician

Reply #4 – October 16, 2020, 01:05:51 pm

Quote from: Don Malpas - October 16, 2020, 11:31:06 am

They come in a bewildering array of output wattages and you can spend from less than $50 to over $2,000. I have been happy with one from Harbor Freight, 2000w about $100. Beware of getting one less than 1000w as you may find it just can not do what needs to be done.

Your charger consumes only 72 Watts, max, so a 1000 W charger would be more than you need, and require a more elaborate hookup than a small one that plugs into the cigarette lighter sockets. The larger inverter will most likely be less efficient for small loads, so unless you have a lot of inverter needs, avoid a big one.

Steve

Re: Picking the brains of an electrician

Reply #5 – October 16, 2020, 01:15:33 pm

I was an Electrician.
No, it won't work.
You may be able to find a 12vdc to 26.5 vdc power supply.
Like this one, but costly. voltage doubler 12 volt to 24 volt Heavy Duty industrial and ruggedized...

Re: Picking the brains of an electrician

Reply #6 – October 16, 2020, 04:22:28 pm

Thanks for all the replies.
I was thinking inverting DC to AC and then converting AC to DC would lose energy in the process and maybe I could get around this.

Looks like a small inverter for this is my best bet.

Thanks to all
Linda

Re: Picking the brains of an electrician

Reply #7 – October 16, 2020, 04:43:05 pm

I did the rodeo with small inverters and found they mostly are a waste. Especially if you use the factory outlets. The wire to those is just too small and too long to provide much power. I suggest going larger to accommodate future needs.

PS to Linda, a 1000w will run a hairdryer on the low setting.

And yes, there is a conversion loss, but you said you might use it driving down the road, so the alternator would be charging the battery.

Your call, small or adequate.

Re: Picking the brains of an electrician

Reply #8 – October 16, 2020, 04:52:26 pm

"I was thinking inverting DC to AC and then converting AC to DC would lose energy in the process and maybe I could get around this.

Looks like a small inverter for this is my best bet."

•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•

I guess I'm in the camp of "if you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail". I admit I know zip about any of this, but I seem focused lately on the Jackery or Goal Zero standalone battery/inverter systems that have multiple input and output jacks available on the unit that would allow you to plug an appliance into it.

There are limitations, though, that must be adhered to. I recall that vacuums sometimes produced screeching noises, followed by blackouts, even on the robust battery/inverter system on our Lazy Daze, so they can be heavy draws. Attention to this aspect is vital. Their portability is seeming to me to be a real bonus. You can take your power with you to use it where it is needed.

Virtual hugs,

Judie

Re: Picking the brains of an electrician

Reply #9 – October 16, 2020, 08:20:13 pm

Linda, you're right that going from DC to AC and back to DC is not the most efficient way to do things. But in this case, because of the unusual voltage needed to charge your vacuum cleaner, an inverter is your best bet. Given the small amount of power involved, the efficiency losses won't hurt you enough to notice.

Since your vacuum's charger only needs 72 watts, you don't need a large inverter. In fact (as Steve pointed out) a 1,000 W one would likely waste power in your application, and would need to be hard-wired into your electrical system, with appropriate fusing and heavy-gauge cable--you can't just plug in something that powerful. Now, if you're going to need that kind of power for some other appliance (and if you're confident that your batteries can supply it without being drained too fast!), then go ahead and have a big inverter installed. But otherwise, if you just need to run a small charger, a small inverter is appropriate. In this case, bigger is not better.

I've had good results with this 75 watt model--I own four of them, and use them in my RV and car for small jobs such as charging my electric toothbrush. But since your vacuum's charger needs 72 watts, it's probably a good idea to go a little higher. This 150 watt model should do the job nicely. It's quite compact and has enough power for anything up to and including laptop computer chargers. In addition to the AC outlet, it has two fast-charging USB ports. I have a couple of these, and have been happy with them.

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Re: Picking the brains of an electrician

Reply #10 – October 19, 2020, 04:30:10 pm

Linda, we bought a dc12 vacuum Reserwa [5th Gen] Car Vacuum 12V 106W Car Vacuum Cleaner

It does not work as well as a very powerful 120V floor vac, but it works well for us.
Jane

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