Quit Your Teasing-Solar Upgrade

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Quit Your Teasing-Solar Upgrade

July 17, 2020, 09:03:52 pm

Heading home in the morning after a week long trip to AM Solar. Picked up our RB this afternoon all buttoned up and ready to go.

Here is a snap shot of the roof installation. All Zamp panels made here in the good Ol’ USA in Grants Pass, Oregon. Two 190 watt, Two 115 watt, and Two 90 watt panels.

It’s all about what will fit where. I had hoped for two 190’s where the two 90 watt longs are but that just wasn’t happening.

In addition to the array is One 230 watt portable Zamp panel (not pictured). It is stored in the overhead with pillows and blankets to cushion the panel and to prevent it from landing in my lap.

All the electronics reside underneath the dinette seats. Is the system overkill? Perhaps it is but I was aiming to satisfy my DW. She deserves the best. She is very excited about the upgrade. That makes me very happy.

Worth every penny.

Kent

Re: Quit Your Teasing-Solar Upgrade

Reply #1 – July 17, 2020, 10:10:02 pm

Quote from: Kent Heckethorn - July 17, 2020, 09:03:52 pm

Is the system overkill? Perhaps it is but I was aiming to satisfy my DW.
Kent

"Yes Dear" is NEVER overkill.

Joel

Re: Quit Your Teasing-Solar Upgrade

Reply #2 – July 17, 2020, 10:20:02 pm

How about batteries?

Re: Quit Your Teasing-Solar Upgrade

Reply #3 – July 18, 2020, 01:34:51 am

Quote from: Kent Heckethorn - July 17, 2020, 09:03:52 pm

Heading home in the morning after a week long trip to AM Solar. Picked up our RB this afternoon all buttoned up and ready to go.
All the electronics reside underneath the dinette seats. Is the system overkill? Perhaps it is but I was aiming to satisfy my DW. She deserves the best. She is very excited about the upgrade. That makes me very happy.

We have a winner, your rig has more solar than any other LD Ihave seen, if the portable panels are included. I believe Ken has 800- watts of solar on his roof. A 1000-watts of panels should keep the batteries charged when camped in a low light area.
Combined with the big lithium battery pack, your wife will have power for days, even when the sun doesn't shine.

Some say they don't have room for more solar but, as you have done, by using panels of different sizes, you can use every available space.Panels are smaller and much cheaper than they were in the past.

Larry

Re: Quit Your Teasing-Solar Upgrade

Reply #4 – July 18, 2020, 02:00:19 am

Kent, my 540 watts keep the battery charged in summer under the adco tarp. Maybe yours can do the job in winter (You are 5 deg closer to the equator than I)
Safe travels. Come down the coast and see how it does in the fog

joel

Re: Quit Your Teasing-Solar Upgrade

Reply #5 – July 19, 2020, 02:07:47 pm

Greg,

I had 5 Battle Born 100 amp hour batteries installed. They reside underneath the rearward dinette seat.

Pretty sweet. 😉

Kent

Re: Quit Your Teasing-Solar Upgrade

Reply #6 – July 19, 2020, 02:43:36 pm

Was about to ask for details about under bench install and you posted pics before I could. Looks pretty clear but wondering what inverter/charger/solar controller you have? Likely the blue box in pics but can't tell what it is.
Thanks very much for sharing and looks like they did a super job on installation.

Re: Quit Your Teasing-Solar Upgrade

Reply #7 – July 19, 2020, 05:39:34 pm

<smile> Between you and me I think Kent found a gold mine to pay for that upgrade.......

glen

ps just jealous. Yup pure green eyed jealousy.

Re: Quit Your Teasing-Solar Upgrade

Reply #8 – July 19, 2020, 08:15:40 pm

Glen,

Indeed, it feels like a gold mine worth of upgrades. Waited 5 years to pull the trigger on this. In ‘15, I had LD include the second panel. It worked fine until I killed the AGM’s. This upgrade concept started as a moderate build but over the course of events I figured that any further upgrades from AM Solar would have to include the cost of time and travel from So Cal to Springfield. It made financial sense to get all I could all at once.

The charger/inverter is the Victron Multiplus 3000VA. That resides underneath the forward dinette seat. The old battery bay is now empty and will do well for hoses or cables.

I also changed out the Blue Sky 3000i for the Victron Color Control GX Monitor.

Here’s pics of the charger/inverter.

Kent

Re: Quit Your Teasing-Solar Upgrade

Reply #9 – July 19, 2020, 08:46:32 pm

Victron seems to be stealing the market lately.
BattleBorn seems to have a hold on the Lithium battery market as well.

Re: Quit Your Teasing-Solar Upgrade

Reply #10 – July 20, 2020, 01:03:16 pm

When at AM Solar, I inquired about running the fridge on the lithium’s while driving down the road. My installer was iffy about this and suggested I check the data specs on the fridges power requirements.

I’m not the only one who prefers to turn off the propane while traveling so running the fridge on 110 would be great. The good news is that the battery bank will handle the fridges needs (at least with the Victron 3000VA & my battery bank) for several hours.

The better news is that the chassis alternator will power the fridge indefinitely with no drain on the lithium’s. No more need to stay out of the fridge while in the road. No need to shut down the fridge while in transit.

This a huge bonus to me. In the past I would time my travel with the fridge turned off and occasionally fire up the generator to keep the fridge cold.

No longer...no way. ☃️ Sooo cooool,

Kent

Re: Quit Your Teasing-Solar Upgrade

Reply #11 – July 20, 2020, 02:32:19 pm

Quote from: Kent Heckethorn - July 20, 2020, 01:03:16 pm

The better news is that the chassis alternator will power the fridge indefinitely with no drain on the lithium’s.

It looks like a real sweet setup Kent... congratulations!

Your mention of the chassis alternator brought up a question for me though. I’ve read that charging a lithium battery directly from the alternator can decrease the life of the battery. I believe this is because the alternator doesn’t produce the proper voltages necessary for efficiently charging lithium batteries without the help of a programmable charger. I also see that AM Solar sells the Victron Orion-Tr Smart 30 Amp Alternator Charger and the Sterling 60 Amp Battery to Battery Charger for exactly this purpose. Did AM Solar discuss with you the benefits/trade offs of adding an alternator charger and did you have either one of these installed?

Thanks,
John

Re: Quit Your Teasing-Solar Upgrade

Reply #12 – July 20, 2020, 04:25:59 pm

John,

AM Solar installed the Victron (Li 230A) Cyrix-Li-ct 12/24V-230A Li-ion Relay.
This device protects the Battle Born batteries from the chassis alternator, if I’m not mistaken.

This was one of the first recommendations AM Solar made. The actual ins and outs of the device I will more fully understand when I have a chance to read through all the booklets that I received at the completion of the build.

Hope that answers your question.

Kent

Re: Quit Your Teasing-Solar Upgrade

Reply #13 – July 20, 2020, 04:36:03 pm

Kent, that's a dream system you have there! Enough power to run the laserdisc player and plasma TV all night. ;-)

But about that fridge... you're now in a perfect position to ditch the inefficient, breakdown-prone absorption fridge and replace it with a compressor fridge such as Vitrifrigo's DP2600.

Advantages:
• Not affected by unlevel operation
• Not affected by altitude
• No fire hazard and no ammonia leaks
• Only draws 65 watts (vs. 350 for your current fridge)
• Switches automatically between 12 VDC and 120 VAC operation, so you don't have to remember.
• Cools down faster than an absorption fridge
• Cuts down on propane usage (because it doesn't use any!)
• No flue to clean, no orifice, no burner, etc. Basically, no maintenance.
• Less bulky than a 6.6 cu. ft. Dometic 3662, yet stores more than 8 cu. ft. (because the compressor unit takes up much less space than all the boiler, tubes, etc. claptrap)... thus allowing you to install much more insulation around it, for higher efficiency.

As we've discussed previously, these units do require a robust solar/battery system... but you have that in spades now! I've been using the slightly smaller DP150 (5.3 cu. ft.) models for years in my LD and my Airstream, and I only had 600 watts of solar and 320 Ah of batteries.

I don't want to sound over-enthusiastic, but this really does look like your logical next step. We all know about the many drawbacks of absorption RV fridges. You are now in a position where you don't have to put up with them. Think about it. :-)

Re: Quit Your Teasing-Solar Upgrade

Reply #14 – July 20, 2020, 04:43:58 pm

I don't think the Cyrix Li-ct will protect against the alternator overcharging the batteries. The manual says this:

The Cyrix-Li-ct will parallel connect a lead acid starter battery and a LiFePO4 battery:
- if the Charge Disconnect output of the VE.Bus BMS is high [but with Battle Born batteries, you don't have a Victron BMS, right?], and
- if it senses 13,4V (resp. 26,8V) or more on one of its power terminals.

The Cyrix will disengage immediately:
- when its control output becomes free floating, signalling cell over voltage or cell over temperature, and/or
- when battery voltage drops below 13,2V.

Start assist function: a short positive pulse will close the relay during 30 seconds (see figure on page 2).

A built-in transient voltage suppressor will limit the voltage spike that may occur when the Cyrix suddenly disengages due to cell overvoltage or over temperature.

The way I read that, it's basically just a fancy isolator that parallels your start and house batteries at >13.4 V and disconnects at <13.2 V... plus some features that only work with Victron's BMS. You may want to check back with AM Solar about this.

Re: Quit Your Teasing-Solar Upgrade

Reply #15 – July 20, 2020, 04:44:44 pm

Andy,

I’m with you on the new fridge, however the current fridge will have to do for now at less than 5 years of age.

The LD player is rather large actually. Stacking discs could be problematic as well. I imagine my 1500+ LD collection would tip the rigs max capacity in so many ways. Even today I usually only carry a dozen or so Blu-Rays. Reading a novel is nice. Although I do get a kick out of a few Fraiser episodes once in a while. 😉

Kent

Re: Quit Your Teasing-Solar Upgrade

Reply #16 – July 20, 2020, 05:42:17 pm

Andy,

I agree about the Cyrix-Li-ct being a fancy (somewhat intelligent) solid state relay/isolator. As far as overcharging the lithium battery... I don’t think the LD alternator could produce the higher 14.2v-14.6v bulk/absorption voltage needed to cause an overcharge. Most likely the alternator voltage would be around 13.9v and never allow batteries to get to the point of overcharging.

What may be a concern is if the lithium batteries are drained down and on a long drive the alternator is dumping full charging amps for a long period of time... the alternator could get really hot and possibly burn up. Kent — It’s something to ask AM Solar about.

John

Re: Quit Your Teasing-Solar Upgrade

Reply #17 – July 20, 2020, 08:00:51 pm

When AM Solar completed our upgrade in September 2015, practically as we were driving away, they mentioned that we should probably disconnect the alternator from the 300A lithium battery on long trips due to concerns of overworking the alternator.

I was confused by that advice, but went ahead and disconnected the alternator from the house battery that evening and haven't have it connected since, nor have I had any reason to do so. Not surprisingly, daytime traveling (the only time the alternator would be contributing) is when we see the least demand for charging anyway. But then again we're comfortable running the fridge on propane when traveling.

Steve

Re: Quit Your Teasing-Solar Upgrade

Reply #18 – July 20, 2020, 09:07:25 pm

Google renogy DC-DC battery charger. That is a safe way to charge your house batteries off your chassis batteries.

Re: Quit Your Teasing-Solar Upgrade

Reply #19 – July 20, 2020, 09:13:50 pm

This is what Victon says about their Cyrix Li-ct

Victron cyrix li-ct - Victron Energy

Kent

Re: Quit Your Teasing-Solar Upgrade

Reply #20 – July 20, 2020, 10:26:17 pm

"The LD player is rather large actually."

Oh, I know. That was a joke. :-) And even if the player were small, 1,500 laserdiscs would have your suspension bottoming out.

"practically as we were driving away, they mentioned that we should probably disconnect the alternator from the 300A lithium battery on long trips due to concerns of overworking the alternator."

John has it nailed. Because LiFePO4 batteries can accept large at a very high rate--much higher than any lead-acid battery--it's at least theoretically possible to burn out an alternator by working it too hard. Lead-acid batteries, with their bulk/absorb/float cycle, put much less of a load on an alternator.

"This is what Victon says about their Cyrix Li-ct"

Yes, that's a brief summary. I was quoting from the Li-ct device's manual, which gives more detail.

Re: Quit Your Teasing-Solar Upgrade

Reply #21 – July 20, 2020, 10:45:53 pm

"Google renogy DC-DC battery charger. That is a safe way to charge your house batteries off your chassis batteries."

No need to search. Here's the Amazon product page for that device. And here's the user manual, which tells you a lot more.

It seems like a reasonably well thought out design--for example, temperature compensation and separate voltage sensing are standard.

Note that it does not limit the charging current to protect the alternator--it'll draw 50 amps as long as the batteries will take it. With modern high-output alternators that may not be a problem, but it's something to be aware of. Also, a number of purchasers have complained that it's cheaply made, and in particular that the connection studs are prone to shearing off when tightened.

My concern about this device is that there's no way to set the charging parameters for one's batteries, other than to choose from a few generic presets: flooded-cell, AGM, gel, and lithium. Since batteries of a given type but different brands can have significantly different charging voltage specs, I prefer to set my charging devices to deliver exactly what the battery manufacturer recommends, rather than some third party's "one size fits all" setting.

As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Quit Your Teasing-Solar Upgrade

Reply #22 – July 21, 2020, 10:12:48 pm

This is not the one I was referring to. The part number for the one I was looking at is RNG-DCC. It comes In 20,40, & 60 amp units.

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