Kwikee Jacks June 23, 2020, 04:49:59 pm Does anyone know where I might find some technical docs on the Kiwi levelers?I noticed one of the rear jacks was dripping a bit of fluid this past weekend. Looking at all the bases, it appears this one might have been leaking for awhile. I don't recall in the manual that I have anything on the hydraulic side. It just gives instructions on how to operate the panel. I'd like to check the fluid level, and it'd be great to have a full tech manual in case I want to try to find a hydraulic person who might be able to give it a look over and see if it's a simple fix.I imagine it'd be safe enough to work on myself as long as the jacks are fully retracted, but not 100% sure. I don't mind electrical work, but I'm a bit worried about pressurized hydraulic systems. They can put a mean hurt on you IIRC.Sean
Re: Kiwi jacks Reply #1 – June 23, 2020, 06:17:10 pm I'm not sure if this is what you need but I have a Kwikee Service guide that you can download from my Dropbox. I see instructions on checking and correcting fluid levels.http://www.dropbox.com/s/tggcjoo0ztlta9z/Kwikee%20Level%20Best%20Service%20Guide%20May%202001.pdf?dl=0
Re: Kiwi jacks Reply #2 – June 23, 2020, 07:07:21 pm Quote from: henness - June 23, 2020, 04:49:59 pmI noticed one of the rear jacks was dripping a bit of fluid this past weekend. Looking at all the bases, it appears this one might have been leaking for a while. I imagine it'd be safe enough to work on myself as long as the jacks are fully retracted, but not 100% sure. I don't mind electrical work, but I'm a bit worried about pressurized hydraulic systems. They can put a mean hurt on you IIRC.The hydraulic cylinders can leak from either the hose fitting or the ram seals. If a cylinder's ram seal is leaking, the cylinders will need replacement or rebuilding. Not sure who, if anyone still works on and has parts for Kwikee levelers. They stopped manufacturing them a long time ago.Years ago, I removed two sets of them from rigs that could not be repaired, due to the lack of parts. The remaining good parts were sold off quickly. A hydraulic shop may be able to rebuild a cylinder, depending on if it was made to be rebuilt. The cylinder cannot be easily replaced with generic ram due to the kickup mechanism. A leaking hose can be replaced with a new one, also made at a hydraulic shop. I also suggest draining and refilling the powerpack's hydraulic fluid reservoir, along with flushing the lines and cylinders, most likely the fluid is almost twenty years old.When the leveling system is shut down and the rams are retracted, there should be no pressure in the system.If the rams are down, the cylinders and supply hoses are under pressure between the rams and powerpack's solenoid valves.If a hose fitting is loosened, with a ram down, it will just leak and the ram will collapse. This is how you deal with a ram that refuses to retract, drain the hydraulic line and tie the ram up with wire. Done this a few times at LD Caravan GTGs.Usually, when a cylinder refuses to retract, the electric solenoid valve has failed. Some solenoids allow manual operation, using a small punch to manually push the spool valve into the proper position. I have no idea if your Kwikee solenoids have this feature, it should be mentioned in the owner's manual if it does. If the system is not repairable, remove it and gain a couple hundred pounds of CCC. Good luck and have fun.Larry
Re: Kiwi jacks Reply #3 – August 27, 2022, 09:45:45 am 94 Chevy Daze that has the Level Best Kiwikee levelers… these levelers have always worked. They go up and down, work great. Unfortunately, now the front passenger side leveler goes up - it is 90* angle position it kinda flops down and is not secure against the ring collar thus it bounces when driving… makes all kinds of noises and definitely is not safe. I realize parts are scarce, I am looking for a service person that understand hydraulic levelers in the So Cal area.
Re: Kiwi jacks Reply #4 – August 27, 2022, 12:39:01 pm "Level Best Kiwikee levelers… "Not sure if this will help given your situation but what the he.....Do you know how to reset the system? Dismount the control panel from where it's located (normally on the lower dash panel near the driver's left knee). Disconnect the larger of the two cables and wait 10 -15 seconds. This trick has saved my bacon a number of times over the years. Good luck!
Re: Kiwi jacks Reply #5 – August 27, 2022, 01:38:44 pm Hi Chris B; Sounds to me like you have some air in that cylinder. Liquids (hydraulic oil) are not compressible. Any air in that cylinder will expand and compress, letting that cylinder bounce. When is the last time you checked the oil level in the reservoir? Underneath next to the pump, there is a fill port. Fluid is a transmission fluid , or like power steering fluid. RonB
Re: Kwikee Jacks Reply #6 – August 27, 2022, 05:00:27 pm Ron, I have never checked the fluid level- I have seen no leak ever. When my levelers retract they creat an “L’ look. As I mentioned the levers go up & down with out issue…. Once the level retracts the base/foot kinda flops down and is not secure against the collar in the L position. I will check fluid level, probably the best place to start. I have an 8 sec video for better clarification.
Re: Kiwi jacks Reply #7 – October 22, 2022, 09:20:12 am Quote from: RonB - August 27, 2022, 01:38:44 pmHi Chris B; Sounds to me like you have some air in that cylinder. Liquids (hydraulic oil) are not compressible. Any air in that cylinder will expand and compress, letting that cylinder bounce. When is the last time you checked the oil level in the reservoir? Underneath next to the pump, there is a fill port. Fluid is a transmission fluid , or like power steering fluid. RonBHey Ron, could you tell me where the Kwikee Leveler reservoir is located? My levelers have been intermittent but now won't descend at all. I have the fluid but don't know where the reservoir is. Thanks!
Re: Kwikee Jacks Reply #8 – October 22, 2022, 12:30:08 pm Hi Debbie; I can only tell you where my reservoir is, because the location is determined by the installer. Mine is located just behind the drivers seat, underneath (of course) and welded onto the frame rail inside of the rail. My installer did a poor job and the parking brake steel cable was left rubbing against one of the brackets he installed. My E350 has the more conventional parking brakes. Your E450 'super duty' has the parking as an attachment drum brake at the end of the transmission housing. The MB chassis arrangement should be similar, but has more possible locations, so the reservoir/pump/valve manifold location may vary. Get underneath, and follow hydraulic lines from the cylinders back to the valve manifold. That manifold is attached to one end of the pump, and the reservoir is attached to the other end of the pump. In my case forward of the pump. On top of the reservoir there is a twist cap. I believe you need to push down to release it, similar to a radiator cap. About 2" in diameter if I remember correctly. (IIRC should be my tag line, like Joan's YMMV) RonB edit: I found this link to the service manual: Kwikee® Leveling System | Lippert Customer Support The 2000 Service guide probably applies, since your 2003 MB is close to the June release of the 2003 guide. 2 Likes
Re: Kwikee Jacks Reply #9 – October 22, 2022, 01:21:53 pm "My levelers have been intermittent but now won't descend at all."Hi Deb,Have you tried to do a reboot?Dismount the control panel and disconnect the larger of the two wire bundles. Wait 15-20 seconds then reconnect. This trick has saved my bacon so many times over the years that it's the very first thing I do if there are issues with the system. 4 Likes
Re: Kwikee Jacks Reply #10 – October 22, 2022, 06:14:50 pm Hi Steve; My system only has the RJ45 connector going to the flat control panel. That panel is mounted on the sunvisor. Disconnecting the other cables and connectors are under the rig. Dirty, greasy, etc. Are those the ones you disconnect? How about just disconnecting the power lead from the chassis battery going to the pump solenoid, and I assume other electronic interface control module. Also underneath. RonB
Re: Kwikee Jacks Reply #11 – October 22, 2022, 06:55:47 pm "Are those the ones you disconnect?"RonNO, the wire bundle I'm talking about is connected to the back side of the 'control panel' mounted (on mine) below and to the left of the steering column. You remove the four screws that hold the control panel to the dash and pull it out to access the back of the PCB. There are two wire bundles there, each with their own wires and connectors. You temporarily disconnect the larger of the two bundles causing the system memory to reset/reboot. This normally restores the system! It always has for me! Once the system has been restored you can then regain control and extend or retract the jacks as you will.I also have a prefabricated wire bundle in my parts bin that is suppose to 'normalize' the jacks to a default position when connected from one connector to the other (a bypass of sorts). I cannot say how or if this works because I've never had to use it.
Re: Kwikee Jacks Reply #12 – October 22, 2022, 07:32:11 pm Hi Steve; Apparently you have the newer and more expensive leveling system with 'Auto' mode and a level sensor external that allows the system to autolevel. My older system (early 2000) with the auto 'key' missing from the control panel is manual only. It does have the bi-axis feature that operates two jacks on a side at the same time to avoid twisting the chassis. That is pretty much unnecessary with only about 12 feet length wise and 5 feet apart on my 'shorty' E350 chassis. (those are estimates). I always used it one jack at a time. My system had water intrusion into the control box underneath, out in the weather. It quit about 2012 and parts were unobtainable already. Even used, possibly working modules, (possibly not) were exorbitantly priced. It's been along for the ride since then. I am considering re-engineering the system with 12 volt switches and a few relays with a multiwire cable. Hard to justify a $4000 or more expenditure just for a kit, just to put sort of a luxury, on a 23 year old LD. The motor, valves, cylinder rams and pump should still work. RonB
Re: Kwikee Jacks Reply #13 – October 22, 2022, 07:52:35 pm Thanks, Ron and Steve! Sorry for the late reply. Today was a travel day and I posted from a rest stop.I'll try Steve's suggestion first as the control panel is easy to access. If the reset doesn't work, I'll try Ron's suggestion of tracing the hydraulic lines but that will have to wait until the end of my trip for the year.I really miss the levelers when I need to raise the back end. Dealing with the duallys is a pain in the rear (ha ha).Thanks again, gentlemen! 1 Likes
Re: Kwikee Jacks Reply #14 – October 22, 2022, 10:23:41 pm "Apparently you have the newer and more expensive leveling system with 'Auto' mode..."Nope! No auto mode, dead stock Kwikee as of the day following delivery in Nov 2004 and working ever since.I use spirit levels stuck to the dash and the drivers door sill to guesstimate the level position. As with you I punch the appropriate button until I'm happy with the results. The front rams are deployed any time the rig is parked in my side yard to compensate for the downward rake of the chassis. My parking pad was laid dead level by the contractor with a laser!
Re: Kwikee Jacks Reply #15 – October 23, 2022, 01:26:03 am I have the Kwikee system on my 1997 MB. This week the hydraulic pump motor finally self destructed. I have been have been nursing the motor for some time adjusting the brushes when the motor stopped working. When my motor wouldn't work I could hear the solenoid which powers it clicking. Measuring the voltage at the motor showed a full 12VDC. Not sure if this is the issue with yours.Luckily when my motor quit two of the legs were only partially down so I was able to remove the feet from the cylinders and still have enough clearance to drive. I had to remove the magnets from the feet and tape them to the sensors in order to fool the system into thinking the legs were fully retracted.I'm sure it's easier to find a unicorn than getting a replacement motor, so I am looking into a new leveling system. At this moment I am leaning toward Bigfoot but still doing my research. I'm tempted to use my existing cylinders as the brackets are welded onto the frame, but considering their age and little chance of replacing or rebuilding in the future I'll probably get out the grinder and cut them out. Then find a good welder who can put in the new cylinders without messing up the frame.As far as the hydraulic fluid is concerned my tank is located on the driver's side also. Filling is a pain as the fill cap is on the top with not much clearance from the floor. The instructions say to fill to 1" to the top of the tank. How you know when you are at the correct level is a mystery to me. Once the system is topped up you need to cycle each of the cylinders a couple of times to get all the air out of the system then add more fluid if needed. 1 Likes
Re: Kwikee Jacks Reply #16 – October 23, 2022, 04:05:19 am Hi Dave; No the problem with mine is it partially ignores signals from the remote panel mounted on the sun visor. Water got in and corroded the traces on the PC board. It should have been built with conformal coating, but it was intended to be installed into a dry storage compartment. I use popsicle sticks to check the reservoir fluid level, like a dip stick. Putting fluid in is worse but I use a syringe with flexible clear hose. I've never had to 'bleed' it. It is self purging with a few up/down/up cycles. I have considered both BigFoot and HWH. You should be able to reuse the welded on brackets. I plan to. They are already there and have a sequence of holes to choose from for height adjustment. Your DC motor with brushes, you can put new brushes in pretty easily. I'm sure the motor was just bought by Kwikee, so parts and such should still be available from another vendor. RonB p.s. I've done grinding. Those brackets would be a real job! I have a friend with a plasma cutter if it comes to that. 1 Likes
Re: Kwikee Jacks Reply #17 – October 23, 2022, 04:10:22 pm I’ve had HWH jacks since 2013 with no problems. (Looking around nervously… knocking on wood.)
Re: Kwikee Jacks Reply #18 – October 23, 2022, 05:22:30 pm "... it partially ignores signals from the remote panel mounted on the sun visor."Remote panel on sun visor? Never heard of such a thing in relation to the Kwikee Level Best leveling system! My Kwikee control panel, the touch pad that allows one to deploy the jacks, is physically too deep/thick to mount on the sun visor. The only thing I have mounted there is the monitor panel for the back-up camera.My Kwikee control panel is mounted on the lower dash panel, below and to the left of the steering column about on a level with and just in front of my left knee when I'm in the driver's seat. The viewing angle is kind of awkward but doable.The two wire bundles are attached to the Printed Circuit Board from the rear.Are we talking only about the Kwikee or some other manufacturer?
Re: Kwikee Jacks Reply #19 – October 23, 2022, 05:41:39 pm Hi Steve; Yes Kwikee Level Best 2000 flat control panel mounted on the sun visor next to the back up camera monitor. Heavy enough that I have a Velcro tab to keep it in the up position. The problem with the monitor there is that it is too close to my eyes to focus properly. Of course the problem is my eyes, presbyopia. I'll see if I can take a picture of that. The Leveler control panel was added by an aftermarket installer in Riverside recommended by LD. RonB
Re: Kwikee Jacks Reply #20 – October 23, 2022, 07:31:29 pm "The Leveler control panel was added by an aftermarket installer in Riverside recommended by LD. RonB"WOW! I'm not at all surprised to hear that you need help to support that weight.My system was installed by an RV dealership not far from Lazy Daze and at their recommendation. As it turned out they (the installer) caused me a whole lot of grief due to a incorrect installation and then turned the wife and I loose about sundown with a known defect. As I was to find out later the installer (I'm reluctant to call him a tech) attached the power lead to the wrong terminal on the starter motor, thereby causing the starting battery to go dead, which was not discovered until the next morning. It took a Ford Dealership many miles away to diagnose and fix the error. Kudos to Ford to remedy something that was not even Ford related!
Re: Kwikee Jacks Reply #21 – October 26, 2022, 01:30:25 pm Quite a few years ago I transferred a complete set of Kwikee Level Best 2000 knee-acting jacks from another 26.5 Lazy Daze to our mid bath. They have been working great up to recently. Suddenly one of my rear jacks does not respond to the down control from the keypad. The fluid in the pump reservoir is o k. Upon pushing the down control on the keypad, the pump is humming. I have disconnected the terminals on the back of the keypad. Any suggestions if it could be a bad cylinder in the jack? Are these rebuildable?If someone knows of a similar jack being available, please keep me in mind.Aad
Re: Kwikee Jacks Reply #22 – October 26, 2022, 03:35:58 pm Hi Aad; A bad connection to one of the two valves for that cylinder. One exhausts to let fluid back to the reservoir, the other allows fluid from the pump into the cylinder. (that pushes the fluid out of the cylinder going back to the reservoir). On my installation the person used really! cheap aluminum slip on terminals. I replace those terminlas with tinned copper, and tightened up all the fittings that were finger tight to fix the leaks. RonB
Re: Kwikee Jacks Reply #23 – October 26, 2022, 06:03:26 pm Hi Ron,Just for clarification. When I referred to humming it sounded the same as when the levelers were approaching the up or down position. Can I assume that the bad connection that you referred to is the one on the leg valve solenoid? Could it also be a solenoid issue? From doing some research on various websites I believe that these valves and solenoids were Deltrol Hydraulics. Dis ring a bell to you.?Aad
Re: Kwikee Jacks Reply #24 – October 27, 2022, 02:00:35 am Hi Aad; for each hose, eight total for four jacks there is a corresponding valve called a 'spool' valve, and a solenoid at each end. In neutral, no fluid goes anywhere and the cylinder (jack leg) stays in the position it was left in. When one solenoid is operated it pulls the spool to one end and lets fluid leave the cylinder back to the reservoir, while simultaneously letting the pump fill the other part of the jack. Both have to work at once or there is no jack motion. The pump will still go when it is supposed to, the fluid won't move though. The instructions say not to use for more than a minute at a time, or you can burn up the pump motor. That 150 amps of power is going somewhere! Like a starter motor on a car! One of the solenoids can be open, but more likely the 12 volts isn't getting there. Check for a loose or damaged wire going to a solenoid. RonB
Topic: Kwikee Jacks (Read 811 times)
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Topic: Kwikee Jacks (Read 811 times)
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