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Re: Extra solar panel option
Reply #50
ask Lazy Daze if they will sell you two more. They do have them in stock.  All four would be the same age. maybe even the same lot#.  watts.

In the past, new LD owners have shown up at my place for immediate upgrading and have bought two extra AGM batterie from LD that match the Factory batteries.
In a MB, the extra batteries are installed under the refrigerator, next to the battery box, making the running of new battery cable a relatively easy project.
All it takes are three cables and a battery tie-down method.





This would also be a good time to install a battery capacity monitor, for tracking usage and depth of discharge.
Victron Energy Battery Monitor BMV-700

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze

Re: Extra solar panel option
Reply #51
Larry,
Can you tell where in a RB is the best place to install two additional batteries?  I'm probably going to be doing the upgrade to mine.

Linda
Linda B
Green 2021 RB
2022 Ford Maverick toad

Re: Extra solar panel option
Reply #52
Can you tell where in a RB is the best place to install two additional batteries?  I'm probably going to be doing the upgrade to mine.

In a Rear Bath, extra batteries are located under the forward dinette seat, it's located near the battery box for easier connections. Some mount all the batteries under the seat and use the battery box for storage.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze

Re: Extra solar panel option
Reply #53
Just want to put a closure on this discussion .. LazyDaze do sell spare batteries at delivery time. This will make it very easy for me.

Ron, Thanks for the suggesting this path.

Larry, Thanks for sharing the picture. Seems like a simple task to add batteries in MB. Just need to find three right size battery wires from some auto part place at some convenient stop.

PS: There are some current supply chain issues, our delivery date is delayed, not sure how long but this is expected in current environment.

Regards,

Re: Extra solar panel option
Reply #54
We bought 1 grape solar panel from Home Depot (I think we paid $120 2 years ago) and almost as much for an mmpt controller. The combo provides us with lots of juice Spring-fall. We hook it up free standing, so we can put it in a sunny spot as many East coast campsites have a lots of trees. It’s not a pretty set up (as we lug it in and out of trailer for travel on our bed), but much more economical than zamp


Re: Extra solar panel option
Reply #56

A few things about that review struck me. First, I have to say that those people treat their RV as if it were an all-electric townhouse. They normally run their generator six hours a day, but with the help of the Jackery powerpack were able to cut that down to "only" three hours a day?? Heaven forbid they should ever camp near me!

Second, the 1,000 watt-hour Jackery powerpack costs $1,600 for those of us not lucky enough to get one for free from Jackery. I suspect the review might not have been quite so enthusiastic if they had actually had to lay out $1,600 for the unit.

That amount would buy quite a nice solar power system installed on your RV, where it would take advantage of the existing battery, charger, inverter, and so on. In fact, if you do it yourself, about $400-$500 in parts would buy you a 200 watt solar power system, and for another $200 you could have 400 W. Add another $200 for a pure sine wave inverter, if you don't feel satisfied with the one you have. You're still only at half the price of the Jackery 1000, and you have twice the amount of solar power. Even if you have it professionally installed, you can probably match the Jackery's $1,600 cost and get more for your money.

Third, Jackery's portable solar panels (not cheap at $299 for 100 watts) are not waterproof, so if it rains you're going to have to scramble to bring them in, as the reviewer did... and you'd better not leave them outside while you go off sightseeing, in case there's a sudden shower. Frankly, there's no excuse for this in a high-priced product that is meant to be used outdoors.

Sounds as if I'm down on Jackery and dismissive of portable powerpacks, right? Well, no. For starters, I've used smaller Jackery phone/tablet charger powerpacks, and they appeared to be well made and worked well. I certainly had no complaints. And the Jackery 500 and Jackery 1000 products have a very nice set of features. There are plenty of similar products on the market today, but if I were shopping for something like this, the Jackery units would be high on my list.

So... why would I shop for one of these? As a full-time RVer, I prefer a single unified power system, based on what's already in my RV, rather than carrying my power in multiple buckets. It's simpler, and as mentioned, more cost-effective.

But suppose I were tent camping out of my car, or traveling in a van. A portable powerpack could be a great, ready-to-use solution for all my power needs. Or what if I had a homebase--a house or apartment? A 1,000 Wh powerpack could get me through a power blackout due to a storm, rolling blackout, or whatever. Granted, if I had my RV parked in the driveway, it could do the same job. But if, as is often the case, the rig were miles away in storage, I'd be happy to have a compact power source for emergency use.

I would not, however, buy Jackery's solar panels. There are better choices from Renogy and others.

In summary, Jackery makes good products, but it's up to you to decide whether they are the best and most cost-effective fit for your needs.

As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"


Re: Extra solar panel option
Reply #58

My thoughts and personal justifications.

What the stock TK comes with
No inverter
Two Lifeline 6v batteries wired in series for 12v at 220 Amp/hours that gives about 2640 watts at 50% use that comes out at about 1320 watts of useful dc power
 (As aside this number is only good on day one - eah year it drop a few percent)
Two  100 watt  AM Solar Panels.  At 70% useful output that takes us to 140 watts.
(As an aside that takes about 9.5 hours to recharge from 50%.    1320/140 = about 9.5 hours).

Jakery Explorer 1000
Cost $1000
Full wave inverter
1000 watts that can be use down to 20% -- ie useful AC 800 watts

This setup is NOT an attempt to live 100% of the time with ac or even close.   What I'm trying to do is add a extra path so we can, at times, use a pressure cooker, fans, and recharge assorted items.  <smile> 800 watts of loving AC power.   As an added bonus you can charge the Jackery from a car outlet as we are driving here and there.

Is Jackery the answer for everybody, no.  My system is basically glue and rubber bands.    I agree this is a great solution for van/car campers. 

Below are random pick components priced out for comps .....
Two Rich Solar 100 Watt = about $180
One Renogy 1000W Invertor = about $170
One Renogy Li 12v 100Ah = about $900
One EPEVER MPPT convertor about $170

glen

As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
personal fine art photo stuff
TF Mack | Flickr
It's all good .......
2014 Twin King

Re: Extra solar panel option
Reply #59
..
In a MB, the extra batteries are installed under the refrigerator, next to the battery box, making the running of new battery cable a relatively easy project.
All it takes are three cables and a battery tie-down method.

This would also be a good time to install a battery capacity monitor...
Larry

Battery monitor BMV-712 has Bluetooth, guess I can leave the monitor in the battery compartment and watch/set the system using my phone. This will make the installation easier. Installing the battery monitory at the same time will need four wires and I will be getting wires from RV – Tagged "Category_Battery Terminals" – Genuine Dealz (thanks Andy). I have two questions for the wires ..

1) How long these wires should be. I can guestimate for the wire length for the two new batteries series connection but I am not sure about the length of the two wire going crossing the partition for parallel connection and one wire connecting to the shunt. Do battery tray slides out? I know 2 AWG wire may be an over kill but this is what I will be going with.

2) I know shunt connection is bigger then battery terminal. Anybody know which type of connector do I need for shunt ?

Thanks

Re: Extra solar panel option
Reply #60
Battery monitor BMV-712 has Bluetooth, guess I can leave the monitor in the battery compartment and watch/set the system using my phone. This will make the installation easier. Installing the battery monitory at the same time will need four wires and I will be getting wires from RV – Tagged "Category_Battery Terminals" – Genuine Dealz (thanks Andy). I have two questions for the wires ..

1) How long these wires should be. I can guestimate for the wire length for the two new batteries series connection but I am not sure about the length of the two wire going crossing the partition for parallel connection and one wire connecting to the shunt. Do battery tray slides out? I know 2 AWG wire may be an over kill but this is what I will be going with.

2) I know shunt connection is bigger then battery terminal. Anybody know which type of connector do I need for shunt ?

The battery cable length needs to be measured with the extra batteries in place, the custom cables can be ordered or made up.
Photo of extra batteries in a MB.

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The battery meter shunt is connected to the negative side of the coach battery, using another battery cable, the same gauge size of the rest of the battery cables.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze

Re: Extra solar panel option
Reply #61
I believe the question Muhammad is asking is "What is the diameter of the bolts/terminals on the Victron shunt?" This information is needed so that he can specify the correct lugs when asking GenuinedealZ to make up cables. I'm going to guess it's 3/8", but I don't have easy access to my shunt, so it would be helpful if someone could verify the size.

By the way, the factory-installed battery tray does slide out, so you'll want to allow enough slack in your cables for that. The question is how far. I no longer have a Lazy Daze, so I can't answer that, but I'm sure someone here can.

Or has LD stopped using the slideout tray now that they're installing maintenance-free AGM batteries? When I upgraded my midbath, I removed the tray, so I made my cables to length with very little extra. (Be sure to include the length of the lugs when figuring cable lengths.)
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"

Re: Extra solar panel option
Reply #62
Thanks Andy.

I did some research before sending the earlier message and I think battery terminal is M8 and shunt is M10 size. I need some confirmation.

As for length of wires, two wires across the partition to create parallel scenario will be 2 X battery length (assuming worst position of the battery) plus 6 inches. Battery is 10.3 inch long so I think I need 25 inches and putting some fudge it should be 30 inch. My research shows that LD stop using slide after using AGM batteries but I have sent a message to LazyDaze. Will appreciate getting some confirmation.

Battery is 7.1inch wide, so the wire connecting two new batteries in series will be at least 12 inches (assuming diagonal connection). Putting some fudge it should be 15 inches. Then last wire to shunt, not sure how close I can put shunt, I think 15 inch should be fine.

Though I have lot of technical background but am lacking hands on experience. I am not sure how flexible these wires are, can I manage longer wires? If answer is no, then this discussion is mute and I will simply buy a cheap hydraulic clipper, wires and connections and will create the right size wires in real time but this is not a desirable option for me. Job will be much faster and simpler if I can get the wires in advance.

Regards,

Edit: No response needed. I priced all wires and they are not expensive, I will simply order them with my guestimates and If wires are too long or short, I will worry about them latter.

Re: Extra solar panel option
Reply #63
 My research shows that LD stop using slide after using AGM batteries but I have sent a message to LazyDaze. Will appreciate getting some confirmation.

Muhammad, LD stopped using slide out trays in 2010 when they went to AGM batteries.
2010 RB "Monty"  & currently: 2021 RB "Villa Verde"
2004 Born Free 26'
1998 Beaver Patriot 33'
1992 Barth Breakaway 28'
1982 Fleetwood Jamboree 23'
1982 Dolphin/Toyota 22'

Re: Extra solar panel option
Reply #64
How do the AGM’s compare to the old Trojan T-105‘s weight-wise?
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264

Re: Extra solar panel option
Reply #65
Hi Greg;  The T-105 are 62 pounds each.  The  Lifeline GPL-4CT  are 66 pounds each. BattleBorn 100 Ah 12v is 31 pounds each.       RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB

Re: Extra solar panel option
Reply #66
Hi Greg;  The T-105 are 62 pounds each.  The  Lifeline GPL-4CT  are 66 pounds each. BattleBorn 100 Ah 12v is 31 pounds each.       RonB

Thanks, Ron. I’m assuming the Battleborn are lithium?
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264

Re: Extra solar panel option
Reply #67
Greg,
I think better comparison would be 1ah per pound. Lithium 100ah battery will yield 90ah usable energy => 90/32 around 3ah/pound. On the other hand 110 ah rated AGM will yield 110*.2 which is 22ah. Using our calculation AGM will be 22/66 or one third ah/pound. Lithium ah/pound is around 9 times :-) I am not even counting space, longevity and charging ... price is right and technology is proven, I think LazyDaze should be moving to Lithium soon but then available carrying capacity and space (compared to van) there is no urgency.
Cheers

Re: Extra solar panel option
Reply #68
"I think LazyDaze should be moving to Lithium soon..."
----
Well...... At LD, "soon" can be a moving target.  ;)
2003 TK has a new home

Re: Extra solar panel option
Reply #69
I may have missed this in past post but has anyone done a total 12VDC system conversion to lithium  batteries in their LD motorhome? This would include the proper converter, solar panel hookup and engine alternator charging compatibility.  Curious minds are inquiring.
2010 RB "Monty"  & currently: 2021 RB "Villa Verde"
2004 Born Free 26'
1998 Beaver Patriot 33'
1992 Barth Breakaway 28'
1982 Fleetwood Jamboree 23'
1982 Dolphin/Toyota 22'

Re: Extra solar panel option
Reply #70
Mike,

I recently had AM Solar do exactly that. I even went so far as to remove the two original Zamp 100 watt panels LD installed on our ‘15 RB. I wanted all the panels to be as current a model as possible.

Everything electrical fits nicely below the two dinette seats.

Top side are 6 Zamp panels totaling nearly 800 watts. I also purchased a portable Zamp 230 watt portable.

Here’s a breakdown of all that was done.

Even with all that was done, and everything was set up in parallel, shade is your enemy. I can loose 10-15 % of the 5 lithium’s charge in a day. Yellowstone is very shady at Grant CG. That being said, draining the Battle Borns to 60% after several days was no problem for the genny to bring the bank back to 100% in about two hours.

On an overcast day with no shading of the panels and a drain down to 60-70%, the batts are back to 100% before 1:30 pm.

I’ve put the system through it’s paces since installation in July. Haven’t used the portable panel yet but I have little doubt it will pull its weight if deployed correctly.

Hope this helps.

Kent
2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"

Re: Extra solar panel option
Reply #71
Kent, many thanks for your response. How many BB batteries do you have and which size, the 100AH 12.75" X 6.8" X 9" (traditional size) or the 100AH GC2 10.3" X 7.1" X 11" battery?  Are you using the LD original Parallax 3-stage converter and the  Ford engine alternator for additional charging when needed? If you are using an inverter for more off-grid AC use how is that connected into the house wiring if so?  
2010 RB "Monty"  & currently: 2021 RB "Villa Verde"
2004 Born Free 26'
1998 Beaver Patriot 33'
1992 Barth Breakaway 28'
1982 Fleetwood Jamboree 23'
1982 Dolphin/Toyota 22'

Re: Extra solar panel option
Reply #72
Kent meant 880 watts roof installed. With the 230 watt portable panels, over a kilowatt!
   A 40% charge to full in two hours of generator use is great. The inverter charges at 120 Amps per hour, 24 Amps per battery, two hours is 48 watt hours per battery, and at 100 amp capacity, 48 is just over 40 watt hours. So that is pretty efficient also.     RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB

Re: Extra solar panel option
Reply #73
Hi Mike,

I had 5 Battle Born 100 Ah lithium’s installed. I upgraded the lackluster and noisy inverter to a Victron 3000 VA inverter/charger. Far superior to the previously installed inverter.

To utilize the chassis alternator’s current for the lithium’s, I had the Victron Cyrix-Li-Ct relay installed to allow for the lithium’s different charge rate.

AM Solar connected all the components to utilize the LD’s breaker assembly. You’d have to contact them for further details. Overall it was a painless installation. Plung-In-Play for me.

All electrical outlets operate as if I was on shore power. The fridge can operate on the battery power or solar while in transit. That’s a perk that allows me to turn off the propane while heading down the road.

AM Solar and Battle Born has the specific measurements of the 100 Ah batteries. If you haven’t seen the install, here’s a pic of the batteries and other electronics mounted below the rearward dinette seat.

The inverter/charger is mounted by itself below the forward seat. AM Solar vented 
The area into the coach.

Hope this answers your questions. Glad to provide more details if I can.

Kent


2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"

Re: Extra solar panel option
Reply #74
Thank you Kent. I’m only in the thinking stage now about an upgrade. If I do,  it probably won’t be as elaborate as yours. Time will tell. We will be heading west Wed. to take delivery of the new coach in Ehrenberg on the 24th. It will be good to be on the road again.
2010 RB "Monty"  & currently: 2021 RB "Villa Verde"
2004 Born Free 26'
1998 Beaver Patriot 33'
1992 Barth Breakaway 28'
1982 Fleetwood Jamboree 23'
1982 Dolphin/Toyota 22'