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Topic: 2017 MB: Strange Noises-Rear Axle Hum- Pinion Bearing (Read 3746 times) previous topic - next topic
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2017 MB: Strange Noises-Rear Axle Hum- Pinion Bearing
Recently, I noticed two strange noises while driving our 2017 MB.  The first is a humming noise that starts exactly between 65-70 MPH.  I do not feel any vibration - just this humming/moaning noise.  No, it's not my stomach or coming from my wife :)  It stops if I back off the accelerator.  The other noise is a creaking noise like a bad bedspring.  It happens whenever I'm stopped and then start - like at a traffic light.  At first I thought it was coming from the brakes.  But I can sometimes duplicate it by standing on the door step and use my weight to rock the RV.  I'm going to be taking it in for my oil change soon and was going to mention this to the mechanic.  I thought I would just seek some guidance from the forum.
Glenn & Joan Lambert
Redford, MI
2017 27' Mid-Bath
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #1 –
The first thing I'd check is all storage compartments and cupboards.  Maybe move some things around and pad anything that might be rubbing.  Pay attention to the heavier items.   Frank
plan B - 2023 Travato
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #2 –
I can relate to the bad bed spring noise.  I get an occasional noise like that on stops and starts, more so on the starts.  I took it to a Ford Large truck service center, not a dealer.  They sprayed some dry molly lube on the rear leaf springs and other areas that they felt might be causing the noise.  That seemed to do the trick.  It does return now and then so I carry a couple of cans of it with me.

Best,

Gary
2007 30' TB
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #3 –
Experiment for the humming noise - when it occurs, downshift, or take out of overdrive without changing speed. If the noise changes or disappears, it is likely the engine air intake noise. If so, check all components in the intake path for any problem. The squeak - see if it occurs when going from drive to reverse, while stopped. If so, then something chassis-related is shifting, and a second person outside might be able to narrow down the location.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #4 –
Quote from: Glenn Lambert  - 
Recently, I noticed two strange noises while driving our 2017 MB.  The first is a humming noise that starts exactly between 65-70 MPH.  I do not feel any vibration - just this humming/moaning noise.  No, it's not my stomach or coming from my wife :)  It stops if I back off the accelerator.  The other noise is a creaking noise like a bad bedspring.  It happens whenever I'm stopped and then start - like at a traffic light.  At first I thought it was coming from the brakes.  But I can sometimes duplicate it by standing on the door step and use my weight to rock the RV.  I'm going to be taking it in for my oil change soon and was going to mention this to the mechanic.  I thought I would just seek some guidance from the forum.
I was on a long trip with our 1990 going through lots of climbs and switchbacks so I was hyper alert to any noises or brake issues. Every time I stepped on the brakes I heard a clunk on my side near the front. Thought a caliper was hanging up or a shock.... Beer in fridge rolling forward.
1990 26.5 MB
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #5 –
"Thought a caliper was hanging up or a shock.... Beer in fridge rolling forward."

Funny! Same thing has happened to me a couple of times, because I have a small fridge in my car just behind the driver's seat.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #6 –
Quote from: Jagerbeast  - 
I was on a long trip with our 1990 going through lots of climbs and switchbacks so I was hyper alert to any noises or brake issues. Every time I stepped on the brakes I heard a clunk on my side near the front. Thought a caliper was hanging up or a shock.... Beer in fridge rolling forward.
Perhaps a Jagermeister?
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #7 –
There is one thing I forgot about.  Late last year, while we were outside New Orleans, I had a outer dually tire blow out.  Instead of having the spare put on, it was replaced with a new tire.  Since our MD was only 1 year old, I didn't think the new tire would be that much of a mismatch.  I'm wondering if it's this "mismatched" tire that is causing the humming/droning noise.  Again, it only occurs exactly between 65-70 mph.   
Glenn & Joan Lambert
Redford, MI
2017 27' Mid-Bath
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #8 –
Quote from: Glenn Lambert  - 
There is one thing I forgot about.  Late last year, while we were outside New Orleans, I had a outer dually tire blow out.  Instead of having the spare put on, it was replaced with a new tire.  Since our MD was only 1 year old, I didn't think the new tire would be that much of a mismatch.  I'm wondering if it's this "mismatched" tire that is causing the humming/droning noise.  Again, it only occurs exactly between 65-70 mph.   

Rotate one of the front wheels into the position of the new tire, to see if it makes any difference.

Humming, while accelerating, can be cause by a multitude of things, including a noisy rear axle, a bad u-joint or carrier bearing..
I wouldn't expect to see these issues on such a new LD.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #9 –
Actually I have heard of such a whistling noise cause by a tie rod adjustment. In that vehicle there was a split sleeve on the tie rod that left a small cavity. When turned just right it would whistle in the slip stream. The person found a mechanic that stuffed some non hardening 'goo' in the hole, problem solved. I think I remember a similar instance where an antenna would resonate at a particular speed. It's hard to believe that that could be loud enough to be heard at 65 mph.
    I'm going to go with a bearing in a U joint. Check that the rubber boots are intact, and there is no looseness in just one of the four bearings per u-joint. Manufacturing defects, although rare, can show up earlier than expected.   Ronb
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #10 –
I have a scheduled appointment this Thursday to have them check out the humming noise and the creaking noise.  I'll update this post with what they find out.
Glenn & Joan Lambert
Redford, MI
2017 27' Mid-Bath
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #11 –
I think I know the humming sound you are hearing. I don't really know what it is, but it seems to be generated from under the hood, on my 2005 mid-bath. I've heard it practically from day 1. Pretty close to how you describe it. The engine will be running steadily, sounding normal, then another sound kicks in - like a vibration. Has never seemed to affect anything, so I've never made more of an issue of it.

David G.
2005 MB
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #12 –
Quote from: David Gardner  - 
The engine will be running steadily, sounding normal, then another sound kicks in - like a vibration. Has never seemed to affect anything, so I've never made more of an issue of it.

This would probably be the thermal-clutched engine-driven fan.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #13 –
So I took my LD in to a Ford Truck repair place.  I've been going there for years.  I described to them the humming noise I get between 65-70 mph.  One of the mechanics took it out on the nearby freeway.  He said the sound seems to be coming from the transmission.  I told the manager that I'm about to go on a 2 month trip from Michigan to Florida, New Mexico, and then back to Michigan.  I really needed to know if I should have the proper sense of panic.  He said that if it's a transmission problem, they couldn't schedule any repair for at least two weeks.  He said he will have two of his transmission gurus take it for a ride tomorrow and see what their guess is.  I mentioned (what someone had suggested from this thread) if it could be something to do with the thermal clutch engine drive fan.   He said in order to check that out would require dropping the transmission which could not be done with their current backlog of work.  So it may be that my decision is going to be to go on our trip and "roll the dice" and hope for the best. 
Glenn & Joan Lambert
Redford, MI
2017 27' Mid-Bath
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #14 –
Following this thread, because I have a 2017 MB that does the same thing.  I haven't had it out since July, and it was our first trip (we are 2nd owners).  But if I remember correctly, there was a noise above 65 mph like you described.  I rarely go that fast, so it wasn't noticeable most of the time at a normal cruise speed, but it did concern me somewhat. 

I might have ours out on the road next week. 

Please post any updates.
2006 RB
2017 MB
LD alumni
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #15 –
Quote from: Glenn Lambert  - 
I mentioned (what someone had suggested from this thread) if it could be something to do with the thermal clutch engine drive fan.  He said in order to check that out would require dropping the transmission which could not be done with their current backlog of work. 

The cooling fan's thermal clutch is mounted on the front of the engine and has nothing to do with the transmission.
It is normally only heard in very hot conditions or when climbing steep grades, the exception being the clutch will sometimes momentarily engage for a few seconds when first accelerating. The clutch's bearings can be checked by removing the fan belt and spinning the fan, feeling for smooth, tight motion. The clutch can be defective, even with good bearings but any noises would increase with engine speed, not road speed.

Has the shop lifted the LD and run it in gear, to see if the driveshaft and other driveline parts look OK?
An out of balance driveshaft could have a critical speed in which is vibrates violently enough to be felt or heard.

Better shops will have a remote microphone set up that uses one or more microphones, that get attached to various parts of the vehicle, that allow listening while driving the vehicle. 
I use an old cell phone, with the audio recorder turned on, to record suspicious noises while driving. The phone gets placed, attached with zip-ties or duct tape, on or close to various possible sources of noises and then driven. It seems crude but it sometimes is the only way to find the exact source of a noise.  I have used this method  to locate suspension, driveshaft, axle and differential noises.

A pair of FRS handheld radios can also be used to listen to noises live, as the transmit button can be taped to stay in the "on" position. Attach a radio to the transmission and take it for a ride and see if a loud noise occurs in the  65-70 range. If a loud noise is heard, move the radio to another position, away from the transmission and see if the noise level decreases. It can take a few tries, but with patience, the location can be narrowed down.

Larry

Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #16 –
Quote from: Glenn Lambert  - 
Recently, I noticed two strange noises while driving our 2017 MB.  The first is a humming noise that starts exactly between 65-70 MPH.  I do not feel any vibration - just this humming/moaning noise.  No, it's not my stomach or coming from my wife :)  It stops if I back off the accelerator.  The other noise is a creaking noise like a bad bedspring.  It happens whenever I'm stopped and then start - like at a traffic light.  At first I thought it was coming from the brakes.  But I can sometimes duplicate it by standing on the door step and use my weight to rock the RV.  I'm going to be taking it in for my oil change soon and was going to mention this to the mechanic.  I thought I would just seek some guidance from the forum.


After a short trip (500 miles) this past weekend, I'd say the humming noise that I hear is from the rear on mine.  Transmission doesn't make sense for me.  That would be louder and closer to the cab.  What did the shop say about your transmission ?

Could it be a slightly mismatched tire ? 

 
2006 RB
2017 MB
LD alumni
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #17 –
Quote from: CactusCrew  - 

After a short trip (500 miles) this past weekend, I'd say the humming noise that I hear is from the rear on mine. 


Have your tried having someone sit in the rear, next to where the rear axle is located, and listen to for the noise?
When our LD's rear axle spun a pinion bearing, my wife could clearly hear and located the noise by standing right above the axle, while we were on the freeway.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #18 –
Quote from: CactusCrew  - 

After a short trip (500 miles) this past weekend, I'd say the humming noise that I hear is from the rear on mine.  Transmission doesn't make sense for me.  That would be louder and closer to the cab.  What did the shop say about your transmission ?

Could it be a slightly mismatched tire ? 

 
Well, here is the latest update on this thread I started.  Things have gotten a little more complicated.  When I was showing the humming sound to my wife, she said she has heard that sound since we got the MB new in Oct 2017 (she thought I heard it).  Keep in mind, the sound only occurs between 65-70 MPG, which about the only time I'm in that range is when passing someone or getting out of someone's way.  Then I remembered that I got hearing aids this past May.  Which - by the way - has allowed me to hear all kinds of new sounds I never heard before.  And so I began hearing this humming sound at our next outing at Labor Day weekend.

When I took the MB in for an oil change in preparation for our October to December RV wandering, I told them about the humming noise.  The place is a Ford Fleet Truck repair place that I've been going to for a few years.  Well, since they service all kinds of trucks, they were swamped.  It took two weeks to get an oil change - there are scarce places for me to go in my area.  General RV and Camping World are not candidates.  But two of their transmission specialists took the MB for a ride and said it could be the drive shaft.  It would be 3 weeks before they could look at it.  We were leaving on our trip in two days.

So thinking that the unlike tire (Firestone) on the outer dually might be the cause either because it's mismatched or not balanced, I had them replace it with the Michelin spare and make sure its balanced.  They were able to fit that task in.  I tried it on one of our local freeways and the humming noise is still there between 65-70 MPG.

So, we have left on our journey from Michigan to Florida and I make sure I don't go past 65 MPG.  A few times, I have tested it and still the humming noise begins at 65 and ends at 70.  If I take my foot off of the accelerator between 65-70, the humming stops.  If I go past 70 to 75 and let the RV coast down to 70, there is no noise.  I even let the RV coast down one of the West Virginia hills from 65 to 75, and there was no noise.

When we return from our trip, we will have put on enough miles for another oil change.  I will schedule another service trip and make sure they have plenty of time to check out the various components suggested in this thread. 
Glenn & Joan Lambert
Redford, MI
2017 27' Mid-Bath
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #19 –
Glen,

Your “noise” sure sounds a lot like the drive line vibration I experienced on our new 27 MB a few months ago. I’ve attached a link to the thread where numerous possible causes were raised for your additional consideration. As Larry said, an out of round/balance drive shaft may be at fault.

Good luck getting it diagnosed and corrected. An out of balance drive line can not only cause an annoying noise / vibration, it can also damage the transmission and or differential. 

Warren

Drive Line Vibration

Warren
2019 MB “Dream Catcher”
Jeep Wrangler JL
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #20 –
The only recall on a related Ford driveshaft issue that I found was for the 2015-2017 Transit; link here.

Safety Recall 17S15 – Driveshaft Flexible Coupling Replacement – 2015-2017...

Plugging your truck's VIN into the NHTSA site might offer some information, but, as far as I know, there is no TSB or recall on E-450 driveshafts. (Something could come up later; vehicle manufacturers may not issue recalls until the "numbers" force them to.  ::) )

Check for Recalls: Vehicle, Car Seat, Tire, Equipment | NHTSA

As Warren said, Glen's "noise" and vibration sounds like an out-of-balance or defective driveshaft; I hope that this can be resolved by a thorough inspection and accurate diagnosis. I can imagine how frustrating and annoying this issue would be in any vehicle, but particularly in such "young" vehicles.

Please post when the issue is diagnosed and the problem fixed!
2003 TK has a new home
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #21 –
Quote from: WhiteElk  - 
an out of round/balance drive shaft may be at fault.

Good luck getting it diagnosed and corrected. An out of balance drive line can not only cause an annoying noise / vibration, it can also damage the transmission and or differential. 

An out of balance drive-line can cause very serious damage. Producing a noticeable vibration in a heavy vehicle requires a lot of force.
Lifting the vehicle, using jacks stands under the the axles and running it in gear up the critical speed, is one method shops use to see what is causing a vibration. If way out of balance,  the drive shafts can bounce very violently .
The E450s are supposed to have Factory matched and balances driveshafts. If the two shafts are separated for service, such as replacing the u-joints or center support bearing, the shafts need to be marked so they go back together again as the original balanced assembly.
I assume you want Ford to fix it before it runs out of warranty. If Ford is too busy, look for a truck drive-line or drive-shaft shop.

You want to take care this sooner rather than later, if the shafts are out of balance, they are vibrating at lower speeds, not enough to be noticeable but enough to cause increased wear to the parts they are connected too, the center support bearing, rear axle or transmission.
From personal experience, transmission and axle repairs are very expensive.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #22 –
Quote from: Larry W  - 
An out of balance drive-line can cause very serious damage. Producing a noticeable vibration in a heavy vehicle requires a lot of force.

Larry

If the humming noise is due to an out-of-balance drive line, I’m puzzled as to why the noise doesn’t occur when the RV is coasting at 65-70.  It only occurs when I have the accelerator pedal pushed. 

Now I’m going to have to decide if I want to gamble and disrupt our traveling (we’re currently on St George Island, FL) and find a place to look at this.
Glenn & Joan Lambert
Redford, MI
2017 27' Mid-Bath
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #23 –
Glenn,

Were it me, given your coach is still under warranty, I’d try and find a Ford Commercial Truck Center in route that will take your coach in and check the drive line for out-of-round/balance.  Alternatively, you could have an RV Repair center check this.  The test that Ford or the RV shop should perform requires lifting the coach and measuring run-out in several locations along the drive shaft(s) (mid-baths have two), with a dial micrometer.  I’ve attached a link to a brief video showing how simple this procedure is so that you might consider whether to have it done by other than a Ford dealer.  I recognize that this may not be practical and if so, I’d proceed driving below your problem speed until you can have the issue diagnosed & corrected. 

ASE A3 - Measuring Drive Shaft Runout - Bergwall On Demand: Online Database...

As for the question why would the noise present only when power is applied, the drive-line may respond differently in a load versus no-load situation. 

Good luck,

Warren
Warren
2019 MB “Dream Catcher”
Jeep Wrangler JL
Re: 2017 MB: Strange Noises
Reply #24 –
Quote from: Glenn Lambert  - 
If the humming noise is due to an out-of-balance drive line, I’m puzzled as to why the noise doesn’t occur when the RV is coasting at 65-70.  It only occurs when I have the accelerator pedal pushed.  .

Different forces are in play when under power and when coasting, there is more energy in the system when accelerating or cruising under power, compared to coasting.
An alternative possible cause are the ring and pinion gears. Noisy rear axle have different sounds under power and coasting due to different sides of the gears being in contact with each other.
A “howl or whine” during acceleration over a small or large speed range can be caused by worn ring and pinion gears or improper gear set up. On the plus side, noisy axles sometimes will run for a hundred thousand miles or more, if the set up is off and the bearings are good.
Setting up axle gears is an art as much a science, it is one of the more difficult mechanical skills to learn, many auto mechanics have not learned this skill or have the patience to do it

Since the rig is so new, I would guess whatever it is, it had been present since the rig was built .
You  had  Ford check it once, so there is a paper trail if something pops, Ford can't say you didn't let them know and try to fix it.

Being a mechanic all my life, I'm compulsive about tracking down abnormal sounds in equipment.
Having a permanent noise like that would likely give me a mental condition if I couldn't find it.
The one thing i try to avoid at all costs is a breakdown far away from home, when the RV is your home on the road,
Much easier to work on or have  work done when you are at home and not 1200 miles away.

Hope you figure this out quickly.
Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze