Smoky's Getting Old August 09, 2019, 02:33:41 pm Like many of us, Smoky is getting up there in years:https://www.foxnews.com/great-outdoors/smokey-bear-mascot-of-forest-service-turns-75
Re: Smoky's Getting Old Reply #1 – August 09, 2019, 07:42:09 pm Smokey's pathological fear of any fire resulting from his early cubhood trauma is a good descriptor of the total suppression policy over the same 75 years. That policy is a major part of the reason for the current massive fuel overload in the forests today. 1 Likes
Re: Smoky's Getting Old Reply #2 – August 10, 2019, 04:52:37 pm "... massive fuel overload..."Which in turn does nothing to alleviate the Pine Bark Beetle infestation. But for you travelers of 'off the beaten path' I would highly recommend a sojourn to that same location, Lincoln County. If you're a fan of western history you can learn about the Lincoln County Cattle Wars and the role that Billy the Kid played in that event. Lincoln, NM - Billy the Kid Jailbreak: Bullet Hole, Death PlaqueSmokey Bear Museum And Grave, Capitan, New Mexico
Re: Smoky's Getting Old Reply #3 – August 11, 2019, 09:42:33 am Some day we humans will learn nature has a better idea about nature then we do ....... or one can only hope. glen 3 Likes
Re: Smoky's Getting Old Reply #4 – August 11, 2019, 04:54:08 pm "total suppression policy over the same 75 years. That policy is a major part of the reason for the current massive fuel overload in the forests today. "Ok, I am lost. Do you mean trees are not being thinned out because the fires are put out? I know that tree thinning in forests were going on when I was a teen, at least in my state. And I thought I read over time that there are fires left to burn but watched (again maybe in the states I was living in at the time and your state may be different)The link to Smoky's celebration did say "84 percent of the blazes that firefighters were called to fight in the U.S. between 1992 and 2012 were ignited by people", so I can't see all of them being left to burn because that is not close to what nature would have done.
Re: Smoky's Getting Old Reply #5 – August 11, 2019, 08:17:21 pm I've written about the condition of our forests before but will try to address this in a condensed fashion. Jane is right when she asked about thinning the forests. Not likely. The worst "let it burn" was probably in Yellowstone. The powers that be decided to let the fires burn as nature intended. It did far more damage than could be imagined. Now, the forests are returning and they are all exactly the same height. Looks like the hillsides have been mowed to the same height.Thinning the forests. I can only speak of the Western States and the Sierra, in particular. Even mentioning thinning trees around Lake Tahoe or most of the Sierra will get you mobbed. Well, that's true in most of Northern California. Too many folks have "loved" our forests to death. Literally. Left up to nature, the brush-y undergrowth would burn off from lightning strikes. Take a look at the forests. They are way overgrown, too thick, and as LazyBones said, pine bark beetles. For some reason, thinning trees and cleaning up the forests is considered destruction. In the Eastern Sierra, in particular, an acre of land will support (water, rain, nutrients) about 3 dozen trees. That's a healthy situation with plenty of ground between the trees. That's not what the tree lovers want to see. And, they are very vocal. Loving our forests to death. With such heavily wooded regions, a lightning strike will set something on fire and it very soon "crowns", sending flames into the tops of the trees. Add a little wind (the fire produces it's own) and it may be weeks or months before the fire is out. And, then it may be winter rain or snow that finally puts it out. We've lived in the Eastern Sierra for nearly 40 years and have seen countless fires, mostly man-caused. Illegal campfires, illegal fireworks, target shooting. It all seems harmless in the moment. And, we need to be careful when building into the urban wildland interface. Understand the potential for fire and prepare for it. Maintain "defensible space" around structures. And, hold the power companies responsible for maintenance. We've been warned that NVEnergy has a plan to cut our power under certain conditions to prevent what happened to Paradise, CA last year. No one wants that to happen again. Yes, fire suppression is a good thing. But, forest management needs healthy dose of common sense. Juli W. 1 Likes
Re: Smoky's Getting Old Reply #6 – August 11, 2019, 09:19:36 pm Quote from: JuliW - August 11, 2019, 08:17:21 pmWe've been warned that NVEnergy has a plan to cut our power under certain conditions to prevent what happened to Paradise, CA last year. No one wants that to happen again. Our power company (Southern California Edison) is doing that also. They call them PSPS (Public Safety Power Shutoff):Public Safety Power Shutoffs| Wildfire | Safety | Home - SCE
Re: Smoky's Getting Old Reply #7 – August 11, 2019, 10:46:42 pm The 2007 Angora fire at South Lake Tahoe changed some minds about forest clearing and thinning. That is a years to decades task. A fuels reduction strategy was launched after the fire and has been amended a number of times since. This is the 2017 Update.The Paradise fire as generated conversation among some of the formerly more complacent populace. The Fire Chief mentioned it is a matter of when, not if. and that SLT is Paradise with a lot more tourists and no real way to evacuate in an emergency.El Dorado County conducted a survey via flashvote asking about changes in insurance rates, coverage and about defensible space. If interested, you can see the results HERE. Most people are aware of defensible space (2% had not heard of it) and have taken all or some of the recommended measures.I get the impression most of those who are against fuels reduction are the same ones who favor feeding those cute little bears.joel 2 Likes
Re: Smoky's Getting Old Reply #8 – August 11, 2019, 11:43:15 pm Interesting article about California towns at high fire risk: https://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/fires/article233183421.html
Re: Smoky's Getting Old Reply #9 – August 12, 2019, 01:14:59 pm Another problem with healthy forests and rangelands is the removal of cattle and sheep. All successful ranchers are environmentalists or they do not stay in business. Our privately held lands are filled with wildlife and feed and yes we do harvest timber. The last harvest barely covered expense but was successful in slowing(along with other measures)bug kill. We have also stopped the hunting of game birds as we saw the numbers dwindle. So much so that the State of Oregon stopped us from developing a wind farm because of the perceived damage to the healthy bird population. No good deed goes unpunished. We are seeing a decline in deer because of no regulation of bear and cats. People who love their public lands as I do need to be involved and do their research. Many times you see a healthy forest/rangeland it is next to private land which represents a family's livelihood. The biggest problem is the bureaucracy, not the hard working local workers. Policy is made in DC that has NO sense out west or even worse is harmful. As has been observed in this forum, public areas are getting crowed, yet I have inquired as to the forest services plan on protection and did not get an answer. Noise but no answer. Where I live crowding is not a problem but the access to lovely spots is not easy. I worry for our National Lands. OK, stepping away from the soapbox. Thank to those on this forum who care for and respect public lands. 2 Likes
Re: Smoky's Getting Old Reply #10 – August 12, 2019, 08:40:59 pm Joel mentioned the Angora Fire (2007) which destroyed some 300 homes. A great deal of blame was directly due to NOT allowing homeowners to clean up their own lots of debris, undergrowth, and dead trees. Moving on. . . . As an RVer I want the opportunity to enjoy forest campgrounds. (I'm not a down-the-dirt-road camper.) But, so many of the campgrounds are terribly overgrown. Growth has encroached on the roadways to the point of scratching the LD. More to the point, in those conditions I'm not interested in camping and getting caught in a campground with poor exits. In the Sierra we've had campgrounds evacuated where the people simply had to leave their equipment/rigs and flee. Yikes! Our area is prone to summer storms with dry lightning. Very dangerous as there is no rain to follow the strikes and put out or dampen the fires. I am particularly "fire aware" as my DH is a retired professional firefighter. Enjoy the forests but be aware of what is around you. Juli W 2 Likes
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