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Topic: Video: The TRUTH about RV Solar and Lithium (Read 252 times) previous topic - next topic
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Video: The TRUTH about RV Solar and Lithium
Here is a really nice video that talks about solar panel options but really provides valuable information regarding battery selection. Does anyone have first-hand experience to support his key points especially regarding battery selection?

Warning - the first two minutes are a musical introduction so skip ahead to the 2:00 mark for the discussion to begin.

https://youtu.be/mBNLIkY9fYo?t=120

Chet in Yorktown, Virginia
Re: Video: The TRUTH about RV Solar and Lithium
Reply #1 –
Pretty accurate info, once he gets to the point. (I recommend skipping to 4:15.) My only criticism is that he doesn't mention any of lithium iron phosphate's drawbacks (other than cost). Shortened lifespan in high temperatures, damage if charged at below-freezing temperatures... and what I find annoying: manufacturers' evolving and sometimes contradictory recommendations about how to charge these batteries.

I have a LiFePO4 system and like it, so I feel the pluses outweigh the minuses for me. But it's not all pluses.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Video: The TRUTH about RV Solar and Lithium
Reply #2 –
Quote from: Andy Baird  - 
......... Shortened lifespan in high temperatures, damage if charged at below-freezing temperatures... and what I find annoying: manufacturers' evolving and sometimes contradictory recommendations about how to charge these batteries.

I have a LiFePO4 system and like it, so I feel the pluses outweigh the minuses for me. But it's not all pluses.

Most manufacturers of Lithium have added updated internal controllers (inside or next to the battery cases) to fix those known problems.

I did a cost comparison a few months ago.   The results didn't come out as I thought they would. 
Battery type costs

Lithium is just as cheap as wet lead acid........ when used in the real world.

personal fine art photo stuff
TF Mack | Flickr
It's all good .......
2014 Twin King
Re: Video: The TRUTH about RV Solar and Lithium
Reply #3 –
Hmmm...I just checked and the batteries used in my laptop and phone are Lithium Ion. Tesla uses them also so we are clearly discussing the most advanced battery technology that is currently being used for applications where maximum energy density, low maintenance, long life and minimal weight are important. Here is an image I found:



It is quite interesting that lead acid and lithium ion are the maximum distance apart on this chart. In summary it appears as if lithium ion batteries are more economical in the long run compared to lead acid plus they weigh significantly less. For someone setting up an RV with additional solar panels and batteries for off-grid use this seems to be a win-win despite the higher initial investment.

Your thoughts?

Chet in Yorktown, Virginia
Re: Video: The TRUTH about RV Solar and Lithium
Reply #4 –
Thanks for the info.  I just replaced the AGMs in March.  Lithium technology should have well settled in another 5 years when it comes time to replace...   ;)
Joel & Terry Wiley
dog Zeke
2013  31 IB   Orwan   / 2011 CRV Tow'd LWEROVE
Re: Video: The TRUTH about RV Solar and Lithium
Reply #5 –
Just in case you love learning something new every day here is a nice video titled "Li-ion battery, How does it work?"

Chet in Yorktown, Virginia
Re: Video: The TRUTH about RV Solar and Lithium
Reply #6 –
Quote from: Renegade242  - 
Your thoughts?

If buying a new LD, lithium would be the choice after the original batteries died, I doubt LD would delete them.
One problem today is explosion of brands and how to decide which is the best value.
Lithium batteries are more than just a battery, they have built-in electronics (BPS) that control and protect the individual cells from over charging and draining the cells too deeply. I would worry more about the intergrated electronics dying than the battery itself. With so many new brands on the market, who knows which has the better electronics? The market will shake out over time but I wouldn't want to be a test animal .
Many of the lithiums chaim they are direct replacements for lead-acid batteries and can be installed without any other modifications, event the stock converter can be used. To take advantage of lithiums ability to absorb huge amounts of charge amperage, upgrading to the largest charger is recommended to reduce generator run time. Large inverter/converters will change at 100+ amps.

I would start with a 300-amp/hr, 12-volt lithium battery, used with a 2-3000-watt pure sine wave inverter/converter, with shore power 'boosting' technology.  Add 400+ watts of solar and a solar controller plus the upgrading the cabling and fusing.
From my limited research, Victron and Magnum would be contenders for the inverter/converter.
VIctron has a more integrated  system, the type found in modern boats where all the electronics are linked to a master control screen.

I would love to replace the 300-lbs of lead-acid batteries with a battery weighing one third a much and still have the same or better capacity. To convert our LD to the battery and inverter/converter to the system described above would cost $6000+ in parts alone, not including labor.
Not a conversion I would make on our old LD but one that would make sense in a newer model, if the owner planned owning it for several years or is a full time boondocker.

Adding advanced electronics is a potential profit center that LD has refused to get involved with. Having a boondocks package with lithium batteries, a big inverter/converter, a battery capacity gauge and possibly a SeeLevel tank monitor, might be a big seller. Installing it at the time of manufacture would simplify the installation and costs, in the long run.

Andy has more experience with lithium batteries and advanced electronics than other forum members, he advice should be listened too.

Larry
 

Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Video: The TRUTH about RV Solar and Lithium
Reply #7 –
Just a note, that Lithium Ion batteries aren't the same as LiFePO4 batteries. Lithium batteries as used in cell phones and electric autos are different animals than LiFePO4. As Larry said, those replacements like the BattleBorn have internal battery management systems built in for each cell. Those BMS's hopefully can prevent them from catching fire. A recent video on the news just the other day, had security video in a parking garage, of a Tesla bursting into flame spontaneously!  (yes I do own stock in Tesla!!)
   Problems with low temperature charging, High temperature instabilities, and general safety concerns with any battery systems capable of high charge/discharge currents are still concerns. I'm still unsure of how a full charge state is accurately determined on those LiFePO4 units. Unlike lead acid, you can't just keep charging them, and the terminal voltage doesn't seem to rise much to signify they are full.     RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB