cracking/chipping paint April 05, 2019, 04:19:23 pm Greetings all, I hope spring is being kind to you wherever you are. I have a question/concern...I am planning on calling Vince at the factory, but I wanted to run this by you all here to see if anyone else has had this issue. I own a 2016 MB Lazy Daze. So we are heading to just about three years old. Already I have noticed that the paint on my LD is cracking and chipping off. NOT good I know. Has anyone else dealt with this? We have had this covered when not in use, until a few months ago. I have included photos of some of the cracking (which is mostly on the underside of the panels where the level changes on the side - make sense?). Also the rubber area on the roof is chipping off badly. Yes, in the pictures my RV is dirty, because I am afraid to wash it, for fear of more paint chipping. I can assure you though I have been washing and waxing it several times per year. Any info would be greatly appreciated, before I call Vince. Thank you! -Rebecca Winters 2016 MB
Re: cracking/chipping paint Reply #1 – April 05, 2019, 04:57:04 pm Just a question, Rebecca. Are you the original owner?
Re: cracking/chipping paint Reply #2 – April 05, 2019, 05:20:10 pm Quote from: HiLola - April 05, 2019, 04:57:04 pmJust a question, Rebecca. Are you the original owner?Yes, I am.
Re: cracking/chipping paint Reply #3 – April 05, 2019, 05:40:21 pm Wow, not what I would expect with less than 3 years on any coach. I hope you get it taken care of and with an explanation. I am on the list so watching closely.
Re: cracking/chipping paint Reply #4 – April 05, 2019, 05:55:29 pm "...the paint on my LD is cracking and chipping off."RebeccaNot only is it NOT good, in my estimation it's practically unheard of. I suggest that you do not wait to make that call to Vince, and if possible send him the photos. This may cost you a trip the factory but they will most certainly make it good again. Oh, and there is NO rubber on your roof. 1 Likes
Re: cracking/chipping paint Reply #5 – April 05, 2019, 05:58:18 pm Just a thought, Rebecca - this seems highly unusual for such a young rig, but you say it was covered? Did you mean a carport or a fabric cover? The latter is more likely to cause the problems you noted, as it will trap moisture and humidity and provide the sort of environment where corrosion can occur. In wet environments such covers should only be used during a storm or in hot, dry weather. They should be removed after the storm to let the rig be exposed to air movement. In your state, you should probably avoid them altogether.Oh, if you did use such a cover, do NOT mention that to the mothership!Steve 1 Likes
Re: cracking/chipping paint Reply #6 – April 05, 2019, 06:05:16 pm I can think of several possible causes for this damage : poor surface preparation before painting, poor paint and/or ‘curing’, inappropriate products used when washing or waxing the rig leading to paint deterioration, and moisture and dirt (there appears to be a lot of ‘dirt’ build-up in the joints) trapped under an RV ‘cover’ and/or surface wear/abrasion from the cover. There may be additional causes, but at the least, this condition is very unusual on a 3-4 year old rig; IMO, it needs to be checked out by the factory. 2 Likes
Re: cracking/chipping paint Reply #7 – April 05, 2019, 09:07:33 pm Rebecca,Our ‘15 has similar “cracking” of the paint below the panels as they join one another on the sides of the rig. (See attached pics)I attributed it to “flex” of the coach during travel and possible “shrinking” of the paint as it dried over the past 3 1/2 years (although I did notice it within a year or so of bringing it home). I figured a small touch up along the lower edges of the panels in the effected areas would solve the issue. Perhaps I’ll call Todd & Vince about possible “home” remedies. The roof seal on our rig shows a bit of wrinkling (no pics) but no flaking of paint as yours shows. Here we go again. There’s always something to do with our traveling homes. Even a Lazy Daze.KentJust as an aside: Our rig has its drivers side facing South and while this side does appear to have more of a paint issue it is not isolated to the South facing side alone. So it doesn’t appear to be a Sun issue in as much as a paint issue.And oh yeah, I don’t “power wash” the rig and use gentle automotive washing liquid and wax with “Nu-Finish”. And the rig has never been covered. 2 Likes
Re: cracking/chipping paint Reply #8 – April 05, 2019, 10:15:08 pm Hmmm, I don’t recall this being an issue on older rigs, even my 15 year old new-to-me LD. 1 Likes
Re: cracking/chipping paint Reply #9 – April 05, 2019, 10:46:27 pm "Hmmm, I don't recall this being an issue on older rigs..."My 2004 shows no such damage! What's different now? 1 Likes
Re: cracking/chipping paint Reply #10 – April 05, 2019, 10:53:40 pm Thanks everyone for your input. (I knew someone was going to mention that it wasn't rubber on my roof - I just don't know what it is ). My RV had been parked under a carport at a nice RV storage facility, but a recent change in income made the $225/month payment a little too pricey for me. So I decided to park it in my driveway at home. Yes, my RV is pretty dirty, because it has not been washed recently and I live in a forested area. I have washed it with the same car wash that I use on my old (18yr) car, and the wax I use is 'LD forum approved' - he he. I will contact Vince on Monday and see what he has to say. It is interesting Kent that you have a similar issue as I do. Thanks again everyone for your input. I'll let you know what Vince says - for your curiosity and for future reference. 1 Likes
Re: cracking/chipping paint Reply #11 – April 05, 2019, 11:03:31 pm Kent, you may want to contact the factory as well. Yes, Rebecca, please let us know what Vince says and best of luck! 1 Likes
Re: cracking/chipping paint Reply #12 – April 06, 2019, 12:59:48 am Dear Rebecca,When looking at your thumbnail photos, I believe your last picture shows cracking paint on the roof seam. The factory uses Loctite Polyurethane PL sealant on the roof seams. In past years, the factory applied the Loctite sealant sparingly. In more recent applications, they generously apply it with the finished result being quite thick. "More is better" seems to be the thought process. However, your sealant appears to have been painted and is now flaking away. There is no need to paint the roof sealant and if it was intentionally painted, it is sure to flake away. The 3 year old roof sealant is most certainly doing just fine and I wouldn't be concerned. However, your other photos reveal legitimate concerns. I would agree with others in our group that both you and Kent should take a trip to the factory asap. Remember to share the diagnosis and remedy with the rest of us!Best,Gary 2 Likes
Re: cracking/chipping paint Reply #13 – April 06, 2019, 09:48:29 am My 2003 (kept outside, not under cover) does not have these cracking or chipping issues. I looked up the spec sheet for a 2003; the paint is listed as 'polyurethane paint, Imron type'. Spec sheets for 2014 and 2015 models (no 2016 was listed on the Techsnoz site) list the paint only as 'polyurethane'. 2007 appears to be the last year that 'Imron' polyurethane was used; this coincided with the 2008 change to the 'swoop and swirl' paint design. I know that Imron was/is a very toxic paint, and I recall there being CA environmental law changes that affected the LD paint product and facility; perhaps someone with knowledge of the specifics might post with information. It would be interesting to find out how many owners of post-2008 LDs have had paint chipping and cracking issues, and in which model years these issues appear to be more serious or frequent. 3 Likes
Re: cracking/chipping paint Reply #14 – April 06, 2019, 10:00:41 am I have a 2017 MB and I also have "cracking" of the paint in the same spots as Rebecca and Kent. I noticed them within the first year of ownership. Like Kent, I figured it was attributed to "flexing" of the coach that also causes cracking of end caps. I did not have this issue with the 2002 MB I had for 15 years. 3 Likes
Re: cracking/chipping paint Reply #15 – April 06, 2019, 10:34:13 am "Like Kent, I figured it was attributed to "flexing" of the coach that also causes cracking of end caps."---An RV is definitely subject to some heavy stresses going down the road, and 'flex' likely does contribute to some end cap separation and minor surface cracks, but your 2002 'flexed', and my 2003 'flexes', and neither of those (per your report and my experience) had/have the paint cracking issues shown in the photos. I believe that the issues are due to poor surface preparation, the paint itself, and/or a combination of both.I recall seeing 2 newly-delivered 2008s; this was the first year of the new design. I was surprised at the low quality of the paint and roof seal application on each. There were areas of minor paint 'bubbling' on the rear and under a few of the 'swoops', and there was 'edge bleed' on some of the swoops and lines, as if the stencils hadn't been tightly affixed to the surface. The roof seal was a 'sloppy gloppy' trowel-on job. 2008 was a year of 'change' for LD: model changes, overall economic downturn, LD downsizing and employee turnover, and likely several other factors of which I'm not aware, may well have contributed to these issues. However, the factory - by all indicators that I can see - has stabilized and has been ticking along very well for the past few years, and Steve does the painting, so it seems likely to me that the cracking, chipping paint on later models is a product issue.As ever, YMMV. 2 Likes
Re: cracking/chipping paint Reply #16 – April 06, 2019, 10:49:39 am I own a 2014. I don't seem to have that issue. I just looked. As an aside and this is no surprise, it's raining. I took my cell phone just in case. Later today I'll get on the roof but as of this moment no problems. The twist and turn issue -- we take 'Baxter' down some 'awful' roads. In fact there are times I wonder why I haven't ripped off the waste pipe assembly. I'm saying that to say that shouldn't be an reason for paint chipping or cracking. From the images it looks like to me that some sort of sealant is degrading. I'm like the others interested in what the facotry has to say.glen 1 Likes
Re: cracking/chipping paint Reply #17 – April 06, 2019, 10:52:22 am “Steve does the painting . . .”The owner does the painting?
Re: cracking/chipping paint Reply #18 – April 06, 2019, 10:59:31 am "The owner does the painting?"----Steve is a hands-on-the-design-and-production-line owner, not a sit-in-the-front-office owner; as far as I know, yes, he does the painting.
Re: cracking/chipping paint Reply #19 – April 06, 2019, 01:22:01 pm Quote from: Joan - April 06, 2019, 10:59:31 am"The owner does the painting?"----Steve is a hands-on-the-design-and-production-line owner, not a sit-in-the-front-office owner; as far as I know, yes, he does the painting.While Steve is involved in all aspects of production, I seriously doubt he personally paints each or any LDs.Auto painting a skill and trade, he employees one or more experienced painters.FYI, auto polyurethane paints are all two-part and very toxic, requiring special safety equipment and a filtered air supply.Not sure what is happening to Rebecca's LD but I don't like the cracking along the seams, especially in the second photo. Only the roof seam looks OK, paint doesn't stick well to polyurethane sealant. I have seen LDs with painted seams and others where the seam sealant was applied after painting. Maybe they do it differently on different days of the week.I agree with Steve, covering an RV, in a humid environment, isn't a good idea. A cover holds moisture, even when it's not raining. Our LD is 16 years old, with 114,000 miles, has always lived uncovered outside and not experienced the cracking seen here. I hope we get to find out what they Mothership has to say about Rebecca's rig and what, if anything , they are willing to do.It may be just cosmetic, hard to say without up a close up inspection.Larry 1 Likes
Re: cracking/chipping paint Reply #20 – April 06, 2019, 01:24:43 pm "While Steve is involved in all aspects of production, I seriously doubt he personally paints each or any LDs."---I remember your telling me that Steve paints the rigs; is my memory on the fritz again!?
Re: cracking/chipping paint Reply #21 – April 06, 2019, 01:38:03 pm Quote from: Joan - April 06, 2019, 01:24:43 pm"While Steve is involved in all aspects of production, I seriously doubt he personally paints each or any LDs."---I remember your telling me that Steve paints the rigs; is my memory on the fritz again!? Were you talking to me or my evil twin brother?Can't imagine myself telling you this.Larry 1 Likes
Re: cracking/chipping paint Reply #22 – April 06, 2019, 03:38:26 pm I was probably standing too close to the exhaust pipe again....
Re: cracking/chipping paint Reply #23 – April 06, 2019, 05:48:10 pm Looking at the various pics, it looks like they have a caulk of some sort applied to the seams. My '08 MB, classic paint, does not have sealant showing there. Again, looking at the pics, some of the cracks are a diagonal stress pattern, clearly indicating that the two panels are shifting relative to one another, stressing the sealant, which causes the less flexible paint to crack.SO - When did LD start adding sealant to those seams? And when did they begin to caulk around the window frame edges, as shown in Kent's 4th photo?I will be very interested in the factory's response.Ken F in NM 2 Likes
Re: cracking/chipping paint Reply #24 – April 08, 2019, 07:39:56 pm The aluminum skin has sealant applied along the seams. When removing the skins you much work a knife into the seams and break away the sealant before the skins will come loose (easier said than done).Interestingly enough there are spots in my seams that you can easily apply pressure and see movement between the skin panels as if no caulk existed, it may be possible that only portions of the panels are caulked...if this wasn’t the case I imagine removing the larger side skins would be extremely difficult. Truthfully sealant would only be required where the seams intersected a joint like a window or door or end cap. I am fairly confident the loose skin seams on my rig are not caused by rot but instead were just never sealed by the mothership. 1 Likes
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