Towed Braking System January 29, 2019, 08:23:23 pm In the last two vehicles we towed we used the SMI Stay and Play Duo.We just switched to a 2014 Honda CRV and I no longer have the SMI. I'm trying to decide on going with that again or something else. I know this has been discussed some but haven't kept up with changes in this area and wondered if there is anything as good or better.Jim
Re: Towed Braking System Reply #1 – January 30, 2019, 08:00:39 am Jim-I spend a lot of time over on the iRV2 forum, in the ""Toads and MH Towing Forum." A number of folks over there have adopted a cable-operated system and seem pleased with its simplicity. Here is a link to the product Web pages:Add a brake to your towbar: NSA Ready BrakeReplace your towbar: NSA Ready Brute EliteI have no experience with the NSA products. We have modified only one toad- a 2009 Honda Fit Sport- by adding the SMI (now Demco) Stay-in-Play Duo. I am happy with the Duo. I have had to replace the breakaway switch once in 15,000 miles of towing. The Duo was not an easy install on the Fit. It should be an easier install on the CR-V.Mark H
Re: Towed Braking System Reply #2 – January 30, 2019, 11:46:29 am Far as I am aware, the Ready-Brake has no break-away provision. That requires an additional kit that is NOT so easy to install.Steve
Re: Towed Braking System Reply #3 – January 30, 2019, 12:02:48 pm Were you happy with SMI's Stay and Play Duo in both of your previous vehicles?If so, I would stick with a known, proven product. SMI still has a good reputation. SMI has been owned by Demco since 2017, how that will effect things. if at all, is to be seen..Stay-IN-Play DUO | Demco ProductsRoadmaster sells a near clone.http://www.roadmasterinc.com/pdf/85-4649.I prefer to use 7-pin connectors. one wire is used to charge the battery. Another is for a dash mounted light, in the LD's cab, that lights when the toad's brake lights are activated and illuminated.Larry 2 Likes
Re: Towed Braking System Reply #4 – January 30, 2019, 01:15:57 pm Quote from: Larry W - January 30, 2019, 12:02:48 pmI prefer to use 7-pin connectors. one wire is used to charge the battery. Another is for a dash mounted light, in the LD's cab, that lights when the toad's brake lights are activated and illuminated.LarryThe 2018 Stay-In-Play eliminated the need for a return wire to a brake on light on the LD dash. Well it does IF you can see the toad dash from the LD driver's seat. They supply a strip of red LED lights that you can mount on the toad dash. I think I am going to put them low on the windshield. Will experiment until I find the best place. They connect directly to the brake light switch, so they only can go on if the pedal is depressed. There is a switch on the controller to turn them off while you are driving the toad.If that does not suit you can always use one of the "spare" wires on a 4-pin as the return wire.I should explain my original setup for the Stay-In-Play was a dedicated 4-pin for it. Ground, Brake, Return and spare. The turn signals used the LD supplied 4-pin for turn signals and a redundant brake line.How many ways can a toad brake system be wired?
Re: Towed Braking System Reply #5 – January 30, 2019, 01:20:54 pm Quote from: Larry W - January 30, 2019, 12:02:48 pmWere you happy with SMI's Stay and Play Duo in both of your previous vehiclesLarryI wouldn't say I was unhappy but it certainly wasn't perfect. The box is pretty large and the original installation in the 2008 Chevy HHR wasn't all that good and it was installed by the president of the company and his son. It was so precariously attached due to the limited amount of space that it would get loose. They secured the box with 2 screws instead of 4, due to space, on the top of the radiator support.The 2011 Forester had a lot more room in the engine compartment and the installation was better. Other than that it frequently sounded quite anemic when I pulled the breakaway switch despite spraying the switch with silicone. On another occasion, it was lightly applying the brakes and heating them. Replacing the breakaway switch fixed that issue.The space in the engine compartment of the 2014 CR-V seems to be somewhere between the other two.Other than those issues it seemed to work as advertised.Jim
Re: Towed Braking System Reply #6 – January 30, 2019, 01:33:30 pm Quote from: Jim & Gayle - January 30, 2019, 01:20:54 pmOther than that it frequently sounded quite anemic when I pulled the breakaway switch despite spraying the switch with silicone. On another occasion, it was lightly applying the brakes and heating them. Replacing the breakaway switch fixed that issue.Each installation is unique, many times requiring constructing custom brackets to hold the unit. I have squeezed them under the hood of Honda Fits. Our SMI brake unit lives under the driver's seat of the Jeep, where is has been for 16 years, used for over 90,000 miles of towing.Breakaway switches should be considered expendable . Long term exposure to the elements damages the switche's unsealed contacts and I have not found a way to protect the contacts, even by leaving breakaway pin in the switch at all times.We are on the third breakaway switch in 16 years. If it acting up, it's probably time to replace it.Larry
Re: Towed Braking System Reply #7 – January 30, 2019, 01:40:01 pm I have the second version of this unit.We have towed about 20,000 miles or more with no issues.RVI BRAKING SYSTEMRVibrake3 Auxiliary Braking System for flat towing | RVi3
Re: Towed Braking System Reply #8 – January 30, 2019, 02:32:37 pm Quote from: tedeboy - January 30, 2019, 01:40:01 pmI have the second version of this unit.We have towed about 20,000 miles or more with no issues.RVI BRAKING SYSTEMRVibrake3 Auxiliary Braking System for flat towing | RVi3I was literally just looking at this unit and reading reviews over at irv2 and it looks very interesting. Given the number of hours being quoted for install, this looks even better. A friend was showing what they have to do with the brake buddy and this seems much simpler.Jim
Re: Towed Braking System Reply #9 – January 30, 2019, 02:45:32 pm Quote from: Jim & Gayle - January 30, 2019, 02:32:37 pmI was literally just looking at this unit and reading reviews over at irv2 and it looks very interesting. Given the number of hours being quoted for install, this looks even better. A friend was showing what they have to do with the brake buddy and this seems much simpler.JimWe tow a 2002 Honda CRV so I ran a charge line to the back plug receptacle also. Tow-Charge was the name of the unit I think.
Re: Towed Braking System Reply #10 – January 30, 2019, 03:34:15 pm Quote from: tedeboy - January 30, 2019, 02:45:32 pmWe tow a 2002 Honda CRV so I ran a charge line to the back plug receptacle also. Tow-Charge was the name of the unit I think.They call it a Towed Battery Charger which is required on the CRV.Jim
Re: Towed Braking System Reply #11 – January 30, 2019, 03:45:19 pm We have been using Brake Buddy for 14 years without any major issues. There customer service has been excellent when we had questions.
Re: Towed Braking System Reply #12 – January 30, 2019, 05:22:17 pm Quote from: Jim & Gayle - January 30, 2019, 02:32:37 pmI was literally just looking at this unit and reading reviews over at irv2 and it looks very interesting. Given the number of hours being quoted for install, this looks even better. A friend was showing what they have to do with the brake buddy and this seems much simpler.JimQuote from: tedeboy - January 30, 2019, 01:40:01 pmI have the second version of this unit.We have towed about 20,000 miles or more with no issues.RVI BRAKING SYSTEMRVibrake3 Auxiliary Braking System for flat towing | RVi3I have the RVi3 and am sort of happy with it. The good. It is easy to install and walks you through the setup. I have made a mistake or done something out of sequence (handbrake most often) and during the unit's self-check it alerted me to the error. I had a seven pin plug installed to keep the battery charged.The bad. On my unit the little tablet that allows remote activity and programing worked properly only once. The base brake unit and other items all talk to the little tablet. Unfortunately the unites are in volatile memory within the tablet. When the charge on the tablet expires everything needs to be reprogramed. I quit using it (the tablet). The braking unit in the car can be set without the tablet. This may be a user issue. But ask around. I know one person with the older RVi2 that has a similar issue.Comments. 1. The unite works well on my Subaru. If I just touch the RV's brake, to slow for a car entering the interstate for example, the RVi3 does not kick in. When I need to stand on the brakes, like when that very brave person in a BMW pulled out in front of me, I can actually feel the Subaru's brakes kicking in hard. To a lesser degree if I just normally press the RV's brake, as when approaching a stop light and I am braking for while the Subaru's brake will lightly kick in (I can actually feel the difference in the RV).2. With respect to Larry's comment about the breakaway switch. What are the indications of flakey behavior? I leave my pin in all the time. But have often wondered how to test the switch. I run the cable from the pin to the RV ladder so if the bumper were to actually brake away the pin would be attached to a different point on the RV.
Re: Towed Braking System Reply #13 – January 30, 2019, 05:39:22 pm John-As part of our setup procedure I arm the Duo and then pull the breakaway pin. If I can hear the vacuum unit run, and see the brake lights go on (meaning the pedal is depressed), all is OK. If not, troubleshooting ensues.This is the only way I know of testing the unit while stationary, as the Duo will not engage the brakes below a certain speed (around 20 mph, I seem to remember).I know by experience that the Duo can work "normally" with a breakaway switch that is stuck open, meaning in the same state as it is with the pin inserted.I have a box of spare switches and pins-with-lanyards at home. I carry a spare pin-with-lanyard with us when on the road.Mark H
Re: Towed Braking System Reply #14 – January 30, 2019, 07:24:39 pm I also own an RVi system; not sure if it is the 1 or 2. The unit is inside my RV and parked indoors while the roof is getting resealed, otherwise I would check. As described earlier, it is a pretty simple operation and easy to use. Just plug it in, turn it on and let it program to your towed vehicle. In my case it is a 2012 Honda CRV with automatic. I also run a separate charge line to the tow vehicle to keep the battery up while being towed. I only had a problem once, that I will share here:Once, while traveling, my connection cord either vibrated loose or someone thought they would play a nasty trick and pulled it slightly away from the connection. I think in reality, it was the former. I didn't notice that the CRV's battery was not being charged and l my rear tail lights were also likely not working. Since the CRV was a 2012 and had an automatic transmission, it can be safely towed all four down, however you must leave the ignition on, which drains your battery. Honda CRVs equipped with an automatic transmission require you to stop after so many hours or distance and start the engine, shift through the gears in the transmission; then you can safely proceed on your way. Back to my horror story: When I reached our overnight stopover destination, we had a pull through site so I didn't have to disconnect before going to sleep. Well, in the morning, I checked the connection and found the lack of connection problem so I secured the hookup. I then noticed the CRV's battery was dead due to the lost charge line connection. I borrowed a battery charger from the on-site manager and gave my CRV.s battery a quick charge. We didn't have a lot of time before checkout so I was in a hurry. I thought it would charge as I drove the RV with the now connected charge line. BIG MISTAKE! The CRV's battery was not charged enough to complete the start up connection sequence completely. When I was driving, I imagine the toad battery reached the minimum charge level which maybe caused the portable RVI brake system to go through its start-up sequence again. This caused the brakes to drag and/or lock up. I didn't notice the drag on my engine since my route immediately involved a very long steep incline for several miles which caused me to accelerate for a long period. It wasn't until I reached the top of the hill that I noticed the awful burnt smell. I got off the freeway and found that my CRV's brakes were fried. I no longer had working toad brakes and I had damaged two of the four rotors and melted the front two wheel center caps. The damage was repairable and it could have been much worse if there had been a fire! The most damage was to my ego. My RVI brake system has worked flawlessly ever since. Make sure your tow vehicle's battery has an adequate charge and that the system completes its full start up sequence before taking off.Best,Gary
Re: Towed Braking System Reply #15 – January 30, 2019, 07:34:32 pm After more research I've decided to go with the stay and play duo. I found a provider/installer in Yuma, Arizona.The name of the business is Just For Towing and seems like a good choice.Appreciate the input.Jim
Re: Towed Braking System Reply #16 – January 31, 2019, 02:39:27 am Quote from: l1v3fr33ord13 - January 30, 2019, 05:39:22 pmAs part of our setup procedure I arm the Duo and then pull the breakaway pin. If I can hear the vacuum unit run, and see the brake lights go on (meaning the pedal is depressed), all is OK. If not, troubleshooting ensues.This is the only way I know of testing the unit while stationary, as the Duo will not engage the brakes below a certain speed (around 20 mph, I seem to remember).That is how the breakaway switch is tested. I leave the pin in the switch all the time, except for testing, in an attempt to keep dirt out of the switch's interior.I have wired our SMI wired with a test button, on the dash, that activates the toad brake for testing. Its operation is confirmed by a light on the dash that illuminates when the toad's Factory brake lights are illuminated.This extra wiring requires a 7-wire umbilical cord and plugs, which includes one wire that can be used for battery charging.Back up camera monitor mount with test button and indicator light.Larry 1 Likes
Re: Towed Braking System Reply #17 – March 03, 2019, 04:13:32 pm Getting ready for our April MB delivery, I’ve been getting our Jeep Wrangler JL ready to serve as our towed vehicle (I’ll of course wait until we’ve complete the Ford recommended 1,000 mile Chasis drivetrain break-in).I’m nearly done installing an SMI Stay-In-Play brake system, along with the necessary Roadmaster brake light switch, an RVi Towed Battery Charger and a Mopar OEM flat-tow wiring harness. It’s been a fun and interesting project - thanks to whom ever it was that recommended DIY as a means of ensuring one’s ability to maintain the system in the future. Following Larry’s example, I plan to install an in-cab indicator light to alert/confirm that my Jeep’s brake lights are on. I’m curious to know how you wired the brake system test button. Does it simulate a breakaway switch activation?Thanks,Warren
Re: Towed Braking System Reply #18 – March 04, 2019, 01:35:24 am Quote from: WhiteElk - March 03, 2019, 04:13:32 pmI plan to install an in-cab indicator light to alert/confirm that my Jeep’s brake lights are on. I’m curious to know how you wired the brake system test button. Does it simulate a breakaway switch activation?The brake test button provides 12-volt power to the Operating Unit's red "signal" wire, it simulates a condition where the RV's brake lights are on and the G-Force Controller detects the RV's braking, activating the Operating Unit.See the schematic on page 19, in the link below.https://www.demco-products.com/assets/users/documents/TB20051.pdfTo be safe, use a diode to isolate the Test Button circuit from the G-Force controller, to prevent any problems caused by back feeding of voltage into the controller. I have not disassemble a new stye G-Force controller to see if this is necessary, maybe Steve B knows. Our LD uses an older SMI brake, where the G-Force Controller in located in the LD's cab. The newer models have the controller located in the tow car. Both methods work the same and installation is easier with newer, in toad method. The down side of the in toad method is the Operating Unit is powered by the toad's starting battery. Unless a charging circuit is added, from the RV to the toad, the toad's battery can be killed during a multi-day drive. The older units were powered by the RV's battery and alternator, only using the toad's battery when the breakaway switch is activated. Installing the tow brake yourself is a big project but now you know where everything is located when the day comes and it doesn't work. By far, the biggest cause of problems with toad brakes are with umbilical cords, with broken wires in their plugs, and bad or broken contacts in their receptacles. Breakaway switches suffer from dirt intrusion, eventually destroying the switch's contacts, always keep a plug in the switch, even when not in use. Both the vacuum and pressure lines need to be periodically checked for leaksLarry 1 Likes
Re: Towed Braking System Reply #19 – March 04, 2019, 08:47:04 am If you already have a backup camera, the really really simple way to know if the toad brake pedal is depressed is to tap into the brake light switch under the dash. Connect it to an LED light strip on the dash that you can see in the backup camera. You will want to put a switch in the line to the light strip so the LED's do not come on when driving the toad. Foolproof. 2 Likes
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