Electric motorhome December 12, 2018, 07:00:09 pm All-electric Iridium E Mobil motorhome is coming to market - ElectrekRange is about 125 miles on a full charge; a lot of travel miles taken up searching out the next plug! Is there a "plug app"? Not quite ready for prime time, but it's a "start". (Or not.)
Re: Electric motorhome Reply #1 – December 12, 2018, 07:35:16 pm Quote from: Joan - December 12, 2018, 07:00:09 pmAll-electric Iridium E Mobil motorhome is coming to market - ElectrekRange is about 125 miles on a full charge; a lot of travel miles taken up searching out the next plug! Is there a "plug app"? Not quite ready for prime time, but it's a "start". (Or not.) Might be useful as a in-city mobile office or shop. While it's an interesting idea, electric RVs will require major infrastructure changes, it will be a while before most campgrounds have the needed power improvements.Europe is moving ahead with electric, much faster than the US, with the Germans in the lead. With countries and cities closer together, Europe is more likely to have large numbers of electric cars and RVs long before the US.Electric vehicles use a lot of electrical power, before electrification can significantly reduce the carbon footprint, wide scale renewable power generation and storage must be developed. It doesn't help if your electric car or RV is charged with power generated by burning coal or oil, the exhaust pipe is just moved to different location.Hybrid RVs are a better bet for the time being.Larry 1 Likes
Re: Electric motorhome Reply #2 – December 12, 2018, 07:44:13 pm "It doesn't help if your electric car or RV is charged with power generated by burning coal or oil, the exhaust pipe is just moved to different location."---Bingo! 1 Likes
Re: Electric motorhome Reply #3 – December 13, 2018, 09:31:59 am Quote from: Joan - December 12, 2018, 07:44:13 pm"It doesn't help if your electric car or RV is charged with power generated by burning coal or oil, the exhaust pipe is just moved to different location."---Bingo! But not all electricity is produced with carbon based fuel. I think the point is that the electric grid will use less carbon based fuel sources in the future.
Re: Electric motorhome Reply #4 – December 13, 2018, 10:00:54 am "But not all electricity is produced with carbon based fuel."----No, not all in the U.S., but still about 63%, according to this source.What is U.S. electricity generation by energy source? - FAQ - U.S. Energy... 1 Likes
Re: Electric motorhome Reply #5 – December 13, 2018, 04:23:26 pm Quote from: Joan - December 12, 2018, 07:44:13 pm"It doesn't help if your electric car or RV is charged with power generated by burning coal or oil, the exhaust pipe is just moved to different location."---Bingo! “For the US overall, an electric vehicle is much cleaner than a gasoline vehicle, even when you take into account the emissions from natural gas, coal, or however else you’re generating the electricity,” says Dave Reichmuth, a senior engineer in the nonprofit's clean vehicles program. And as the electric grid moves away from dirty fuel sources, the gap is widening.SOURCEAlso, rooftop PV creates a big carbon offset, greatly reduces line loss, and liberates the consumer from the ever increasing monthly electric bills that centralized energy production brings us no matter green or not.Just some ideas to pounder.
Re: Electric motorhome Reply #6 – December 14, 2018, 07:12:23 am Problem is if and or when everyone starts plugging in cars there will be a huge increase needed in electricity production to keep up with demand. Renewables won't cut it because if the wind doesn't blow or the sun doesn't shine cars won't move. Even if their were more rivers to dam that's not going to happen, new fossil fuel power plants are definitely not PC, nuclear is persona non grata so what's left is Flintstone cars which I guess is a good way to reduce man's C02 output if you don't count all the heavy breathing a person would do to power these vehicles.Then we can move on to all the pollution caused by producing the millions of batteries needed to run these so called "green" vehicles .The spiralling environmental cost of our lithium battery addiction | WIRED UK 4 Likes
Re: Electric motorhome Reply #7 – February 11, 2021, 07:57:36 pm GreenPower Motor Company , a manufacturer and distributor of zero-emission, electric powered medium and heavy-duty vehicles, announced today that it has entered into a purchase agreement for up to 150 cutaway minibuses and Type B and C RVs with Forest River. The press release says that it is anticipated that the initial deliveries of GreenPower EV Star units to Forest River will be directed at the cutaway shuttle bus, commercial truck, and RV markets.GreenPower and Forest River Enter Into Exclusive Purchase Agreement for 150... 3 Likes
Re: Electric motorhome Reply #8 – February 13, 2021, 10:22:55 am Green Star reports a range of UP TO 150 miles. EV Star Product Line | GreenPower Motor Company Inc.After driving that 150 miles, you will likely need 2 hours of charging before you can drive another 150mi. Connected to a 50AMP campground outlet, you can expect 6+ hours to fully charge. The batteries occupy space traditional used for tanks on a motorhome. No mention of a GVWR, but range goes down as weight goes up. Range also goes down as wind resistance increases. I just don't see how this is even close to a marketable RV platform.Rich 1 Likes
Re: Electric motorhome Reply #9 – February 13, 2021, 10:50:56 am "I just don't see how this is even close to a marketable RV platform."---Pretty much anything can be pitched and marketed, and I can see some buying into the idea of a "green" RV, but I don't see short-hopping between charging stations - currently far less available outside of urban areas - as a practical or realistic mode of RV travel. For one example, the distance between my house and Morro Bay State Park is approximately 185 road miles; if the maximum range of the Green Power unit is 150 miles, I would have to locate and map out a charging stand about 30 miles from the park and sit there plugged in for a few hours before going on. No way. YMMV, for sure!
Re: Electric motorhome Reply #10 – February 13, 2021, 11:03:33 am Electric vehicles aren't really green at all, marketing and wishful thinking.However, they do have some practical applications. RV's isn't one of them.And we should be trying to use less electricity in our daily lives, not much much more.But human nature wants us to be comfortable, and the things we do to accomplish that are sometimes silly.
Re: Electric motorhome Reply #11 – February 13, 2021, 11:48:26 am “ purchase agreement related to Cutaway minibuses and Type B and C Recreational Vehicles with Forest River, Inc. (“Forest River”), a Berkshire Hathaway company (NYSE: BRK.A), for up to 150 GreenPower EV Star Cab and Chassis (“EV Star CC”). The purpose-built all-electric EV Star CC will be used in a new line of Forest River zero-emission product offerings. GreenPower expects to deliver the first six units this quarter, with the remainder expected to be delivered over the next 36 months at a run rate that will be determined by the third quarter of 2021.”Seems like FR is evaluating this product and its impact to their business. Not to bring this to market now. Six units initially and the remaining over next 36 months. So as they develop designs for Cutaway minibuses and Type B and C Recreational Vehicles they will take delivery and start testing/evaluation. I would not worry about battery range as in 3+ years, with continued development, the range and charging stations/time frame will improve immensely. Ron
Re: Electric motorhome Reply #12 – February 13, 2021, 11:57:17 am "I would not worry about battery range as in 3+ years..."----I can state unequivocally that "battery range" is nowhere on the list of my concerns for the next "3+ years". 4 Likes
Re: Electric motorhome Reply #13 – February 13, 2021, 01:57:10 pm Remember that Iveco class C motorhome a year or so back that was plastered all over with solar panels, including on the underside of the overcab? Completely stupid and impractical, but it got the company a lot of publicity. That's all I see this Forest River story being. Electric vehicles are trendy, so they can get publicity by appearing to jump on the bandwagon. No doubt a few suckers will buy these, although I doubt they'll keep them for more than a season. But in the meantime, Forest River will have gotten lots of gee-whiz stories in national magazines and on the web, and that's what they want. 6 Likes
Re: Electric motorhome Reply #14 – February 13, 2021, 08:03:49 pm Greener batteries are coming - one current article, for example:Salt-Based Battery Could Unleash Cleaner Energy for Electric Cars | IERenewable electricity is increasing every yearSolar power efficiency per panel is quickly increasing and becoming cheaperThe charging infrustrucutre is expanding and the speed of charging is increasing Amazon is in contract for 100,000 electric Rivian vans, with some already in use in California. Etc. Etc. Etc. Google any comment I have made for multiple articles that verify, and moreIn case anyone here hasn't noticed, the world is on fire right now and we are all part of the problem. I know I am getting tired of dodging smoke each summer in the western states and Canada. Sooo, anyone care enough to change their behavior?Yes, Electric RV's are not ready for prime time yet, and neither is the infrastructure and renewable electricity to support them, but I am surprised why so many here seem so negative on the possibility and necessity that we get there.Pete 1 Likes
Re: Electric motorhome Reply #15 – February 13, 2021, 08:23:36 pm Quote from: Peter Weisel - February 13, 2021, 08:03:49 pmYes, Electric RV's are not ready for prime time yet, and neither is the infrastructure and renewable electricity to support them, but I am surprised why so many here seem so negative on the possibility and necessity that we get there.Physics.Even the best batteries in research today are orders of magnitude heavier per mile of potential travel compared to gas. As the vehicle gets larger, the battery gets so heavy that some substantial amount of extra battery capacity goes to rolling the extra battery...and so on.... It's not that you don't get some added range by increasing the size of the battery, but batteries are the heaviest and most expensive part of an EV so there are diminishing returns. RVs are big, heavy, not very aerodynamic vehicles. It's not correct to say 'well we're making progress on electric cars so RVs must be close behind.' Before someone says 'What about the Tesla truck?'. Those are great, if you want to travel along predictable routes via interstate between designated charging locations...AND..you drive hundreds of thousands of miles a year so the economics will work out. That's not the use case for RVs. On the good news side, RVs represent so few highway miles in the US, that keeping gas engines in RVs won't make much difference. As for charging - we still have large areas of the US where we don't have reliable cell service. And those are the areas many of us like to visit in RVs. Developing a charging network that accommodates wilderness exploration just isn't likely.It's not as simple as a straight line extrapolation from cars to RVs. Rich 4 Likes
Re: Electric motorhome Reply #16 – February 13, 2021, 08:33:59 pm Quote from: Jota - February 13, 2021, 11:03:33 amElectric vehicles aren't really green at all, marketing and wishful thinking.However, they do have some practical applications. RV's isn't one of them.And we should be trying to use less electricity in our daily lives, not much much more.But human nature wants us to be comfortable, and the things we do to accomplish that are sometimes silly.The point is using less fossil fuels and more electricity, a trade-off that is green. Nothing silly about it.
Re: Electric motorhome Reply #17 – February 13, 2021, 08:44:13 pm Quote from: Joan - February 13, 2021, 10:50:56 amFor one example, the distance between my house and Morro Bay State Park is approximately 185 road miles; if the maximum range of the Green Power unit is 150 miles, I would have to locate and map out a charging stand about 30 miles from the park and sit there plugged in for a few hours before going on. No way. 150 mile range is probably not enough for me, but for your example, the charging can be anywhere from 30 miles from your house to 30 miles from your destination, and you would only have to charge long enough to gain 30 miles more range, not fully recharge the RV. That can wait until your are at the park, so maybe on 30-60 minutes of charging.
Re: Electric motorhome Reply #18 – February 13, 2021, 10:55:00 pm "The point is using less fossil fuels and more electricity, a trade-off that is green."Not necessarily, because the two are not equivalent. Fossil fuel is a power source. Electricity is a transmission method, not a power source. And as of 2019, two out of three watts of electricity in the US were generated by fossil fuels. Right now it may well be more efficient to burn fossil fuel in a motorhome's engine than to burn it in a powerplant and lose a large fraction of it to unavoidable power line transmission, charging, and battery inefficiencies.Yes, renewable sources are gaining. Probably (hopefully!) most electricity will eventually come from solar, wind, geothermal and other renewable sources. But we're a long way from that now. That's why I'm very skeptical about electric RVs now.Yes, Amazon's Rivian vans will be electric. But in spite of the fact that they and RVs are both heavy and boxy, they're a completely different use case. Vans: mainly urban and suburban driving, making it easy to stay within range of charging stations. Stop-and-go driving, allowing power recapture from regenerative braking. Electric or hybrid vehicles are a good fit. RVs: mainly rural driving, often not on main roads, often far from charging stations. Mainly continuous rather than stop-and-go driving, so little energy recapture. In short, much less suited to electrification.I agree with Peter that the sooner we increase energy efficiency, the better off we are. (Or more accurately, the less worse off we are. We're already seeing "hottest year on record" year after year after year.) I just don't think electric motorhomes are a viable solution now or in the near future. I hope someday they will be, but I probably won't be doing much RVing by that time. 3 Likes
Re: Electric motorhome Reply #19 – February 14, 2021, 03:54:21 am I agree that all electric RV's aren't a good fit for the near future, but I will promote the idea of a hybrid approach. With electric assist to a smaller engine, a good size generator and some batteries, it could work. You have the generator anyway. (it sure would be nice to have quieter generators i.e. computer controlled, fuel injected, catalytic converters, water cooled, more muffler and all that). Lithium batteries as drivetrain and house electricity sources. Good solar as a plan instead of added later. The gasoline source, tank as now for both the main engine, and for the generator. Enough batteries to have an electric motor only for stop and go driving (in city slow), or high traffic. On the highway the main engine and the separate generator to charge batteries. The vision would be a large 'Prius' type contraption. If stopping at full hookups you would be able to charge batteries from electric, to save some fuel. But away from services your gas tank would supply electricity. On uphill battles the electric motor could assist the engine, so you might not be the slowest in the slow lane going up. Down hill, maybe some regenerative charging, to help out the brakes. RonB 4 Likes
Re: Electric motorhome Reply #20 – February 14, 2021, 05:25:18 am Hmmm interesting discussion. I think the RV parks will charge much higher rates that is IF they provide charging stations.
Re: Electric motorhome Reply #21 – February 14, 2021, 11:41:37 am Quote from: Circus Wagon - February 14, 2021, 05:25:18 amHmmm interesting discussion. I think the RV parks will charge much higher rates that is IF they provide charging stations.There was recently a related discussion on another RVing related forum. The consensus seemed to be that for most existing parks (and especially the older parks) the power distribution infrastructure is not going to be able to handle the extra power needed at each site for fast EV charging. The most likely scenario seems to be adding a few dedicated charging stations where you pay separately for charging (i.e. credit card reader). I think EVs towed behind motorhomes are much more likely for the near future, but their ranges need to be much larger for some of the exploration we like. Offroad EV?Art
Re: Electric motorhome Reply #22 – February 14, 2021, 01:49:22 pm "I agree that all electric RV's aren't a good fit for the near future, but I will promote the idea of a hybrid approach."I agree; that could work as you described it."The consensus seemed to be that for most existing parks (and especially the older parks) the power distribution infrastructure is not going to be able to handle the extra power needed at each site for fast EV charging."Yes, that was my first thought. But maybe fast charging would not be an issue. When you're driving an electric car and you stop in the middle of the day, I imagine that you want to charge up as quickly as possible so you can get on your way again. But nobody makes a quick stop at an RV park, unless maybe to dump. You're going to stay there overnight or longer, so maybe slow charging would be sufficient.That said, I've stayed in enough RV parks that had marginal electrical systems to be skeptical that it will be easy to add any kind of additional charging capability for electric vehicles--especially large ones such as RVs--anytime soon. I think Art's scenario, where parks add a few pay-per-charge stations, is more likely in the near term. This could be a selling point for higher-end parks.
Re: Electric motorhome Reply #23 – February 17, 2021, 02:36:18 am Karen and I do not Tow with our 98~MB yet! We either drive a second car our(Ford C-Max plug in) or rent locally if needed. We joined Thousand Trails - ( T T ) last year at the beginning of the Covid "Stay in Place" in Oregon to remain in Seaside Oregon with our son. We have a Ford C-Max which is a plug in Hybrid. Now when we travel with our LD and drive the C-Max sometimes we stay at a T T or other places with power. We can plug in our C-Max for the 18 to 24 electric drive miles we get. All of the campgrounds we have stayed here in the west have not had any issues with us charging our car. We only need a 15amp three prong plug to plug in and it takes about 4 hours. I guess in the right situation we could plug into our LD and use the solar 460 watts plus generator to recharge the C-Max for it's 18-24 Electric miles? - We are talking about "in a pinch" now But as development happens we could expect to see many changes for the better and the possibilities are there! Remember when a phone was attached to a wire? Karen~Liam 98 ~ MB NinA 1 Likes
Re: Electric motorhome Reply #24 – February 17, 2021, 02:57:41 am This is an interesting discussion. I drive a Ford C Max Hybrid but it is not a plug in. I wasn't aware that was an option.
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