House batteries equalizing. November 25, 2018, 07:16:54 pm Just curious. How many in this group equalize their house batteries periodically?Aad
Re: House batteries equalizing. Reply #1 – November 26, 2018, 12:35:04 am Quote from: Aad Rommelse - November 25, 2018, 07:16:54 pmJust curious. How many in this group equalize their house batteries periodically?Our LD's Blue Sky 3000i solar controller equalizes the batteries automatically.http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com/uploads/pdf/Manual_BSE_SB3000i.pdfLarry 1 Likes
Re: House batteries equalizing. Reply #2 – November 26, 2018, 08:50:16 am Thanks, Larry; I have the same "automatic equalization" 3000i . Saved me from scruffling through the Blue Sky manual to find that out!
Re: House batteries equalizing. Reply #3 – November 26, 2018, 09:49:50 am Just make sure to check battery water level after each equalization
Re: House batteries equalizing. Reply #4 – November 26, 2018, 11:47:13 am Quote from: Sawyer - November 26, 2018, 09:49:50 amJust make sure to check battery water level after each equalizationChecking the battery water, for those who do not have AGM batteries, should be on the monthly maintenance routine.Equalization time with the 3000i is normally short and uses very little water.Larry
Re: House batteries equalizing. Reply #5 – November 26, 2018, 03:52:17 pm Thanks Larry. Although I have the 3000i I never activated the equalizer option. I have two new batteries and two that are probably two years old. After I activate the equalizer option, should I be prepared to replace the older batteries too soon?Aad
Re: House batteries equalizing. Reply #6 – November 26, 2018, 04:14:20 pm We had the 3000i installed by AM Solar this summer replacing our old HPV 22B.When they were going over it with me after the installation he mentioned that he had not turned on the equalization feature. I wish I could remember his reasoning but it was something along the lines that he thought it could be more problematic than it was worth. I should have asked why but just took him at his word. Perhaps it was the concern that people don't check their batteries often enough. We have TrojanT145s which I do check.Jim
Re: House batteries equalizing. Reply #7 – November 26, 2018, 06:08:37 pm Hi Jim and Aad; Trojan recomments equalization every 6 months to reverse any sulphation on the surface of the plates, and to stir up any stratification of the acid mix. In my opinion, driving the motorhome will accomplish agitation of the electrolyte, and the engine alternator routinely runs at 14.88 volts, pretty close to the 15v. target. Engine alternator current has a pretty hefty ripple voltage on it also, especially if the batteries are fully charged from my solar. My solar setpoint is about 14.4 volts, a bit high by the 3000i standard. So I don't equalize routinely. When my batteries get older, I do notice a 'sag' in power delivery right at first on a trip. After a few discharge/charge cycles I notice the voltage stays higher, longer with use. I attribute this to a little bit of sulphation. For proper equalization, about 16 volts should be applied to the two batteries, but 16 volts could be too much voltage for some electronics, , car radio, and TV, satellite systems among others. Those electronic devices aren't really off, even though they look off.To do it right, you should disconnect the house batteries, at least one side and apply the high voltage just to the batteries. While that is easy enough, I've never gotten out there to do that. RonB (p.s. I learned how to spell sulphation before 1990)copied from Trojan: "Equalizing is an overcharge performed on flooded lead acid batteries after they have been fully charged.It reverses the buildup of negative chemical effects like stratification, a condition where acid concentration is greater at the bottom of the battery than at the top. Equalizing also helps to remove sulfate crystals that might have built up on the plates. If left unchecked, this condition, called sulfation, will reduce the overall capacity of the battery.Many experts recommend that batteries be equalized periodically, ranging anywhere from once a month to once or twice per year. However, Trojan only recommends equalizing when low or wide ranging specific gravity (>0.030) are detected after fully charging a battery."
Re: House batteries equalizing. Reply #8 – November 26, 2018, 06:25:16 pm I live off grid with solar and batteries and when I replaced my previous batteries I upgraded to an invertor and charger that allowed an equalization charge auto ur manual. The previous set up was a cheap inverter and a NAPA car battery charger but my batteries still lasted seven years even with this on the cheap setup. That's actually very good from what I hear so in the end I'm not sure equalization charges do that much good. Be interesting to see how long my new batteries last with this upgraded system.
Re: House batteries equalizing. Reply #9 – November 26, 2018, 07:28:29 pm I appreciate the update about equalizing. To be honest, the reason I never looked into this has been... Plain Ignorance. Yes, after R Ving since the early 70s, I admit that I still can learn a lot. Not just R Ving but life in general. And....I enjoy it. Aad
Re: House batteries equalizing. Reply #10 – November 26, 2018, 07:40:23 pm Quote from: RonB - November 26, 2018, 06:08:37 pmHi Jim and Aad; Trojan recomments equalization every 6 months to reverse any sulphation on the surface of the plates, and to stir up any stratification of the acid mix. In my opinion, driving the motorhome will accomplish agitation of the electrolyte, and the engine alternator routinely runs at 14.88 volts, pretty close to the 15v. target. Engine alternator current has a pretty hefty ripple voltage on it also, especially if the batteries are fully charged from my solar. My solar setpoint is about 14.4 volts, a bit high by the 3000i standard. So I don't equalize routinely. When my batteries get older, I do notice a 'sag' in power delivery right at first on a trip. After a few discharge/charge cycles I notice the voltage stays higher, longer with use. I attribute this to a little bit of sulphation. For proper equalization, about 16 volts should be applied to the two batteries, but 16 volts could be too much voltage for some electronics, , car radio, and TV, satellite systems among others. Those electronic devices aren't really off, even though they look off.To do it right, you should disconnect the house batteries, at least one side and apply the high voltage just to the batteries. While that is easy enough, I've never gotten out there to do that. RonB (p.s. I learned how to spell sulphation before 1990)copied from Trojan: "Equalizing is an overcharge performed on flooded lead acid batteries after they have been fully charged.It reverses the buildup of negative chemical effects like stratification, a condition where acid concentration is greater at the bottom of the battery than at the top. Equalizing also helps to remove sulfate crystals that might have built up on the plates. If left unchecked, this condition, called sulfation, will reduce the overall capacity of the battery.Many experts recommend that batteries be equalized periodically, ranging anywhere from once a month to once or twice per year. However, Trojan only recommends equalizing when low or wide ranging specific gravity (>0.030) are detected after fully charging a battery."Hi Ron,I copied this from the Trojan 2018 User Guide:"5.3. Equalizing (flooded/wet batteries only)Trojan recommends equalizing for 2-4 hours in the following situations:>Periodically (every 30 days)>When batteries have a low specific gravity after charging (<1.235), or>When the range of specific gravities between cells is > 0.030 pointsW A R N I N G! Deep-cycle AGM or gel batteries should NEVER be equalized."The Trojan T105 Data Sheet specifies an Equalize Charge of 16.20 volts; I left the 3000i at the defaults of 15.2 volts every 30 days but upped the default Equalize Charge time from 2.0 to 3.0 hours. I check the electrolyte levels every 30 days and have not noted any excessive loss.Charles
Re: House batteries equalizing. Reply #11 – November 26, 2018, 08:47:21 pm Our progressive charger does equalizing - I wonder if there is any problems if both the solar charger and the power center charger are set to do equalization.JaneSent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
Re: House batteries equalizing. Reply #12 – November 27, 2018, 07:46:59 am To equalize or not to equalize that is the question. It's an interesting subject really with lots of different theories and opinions not only on whether it's necessary at all but how often, how long and how many volts. Since my home runs on batteries this is something I've been interested in for many years and after extensive research I've decided on once every couple of months at 15.5 volts for one hour. Others of course feel and do different. I don't think merely driving your vehicle to shake up the water as someone earlier suggested is going to do the trick though. Good info on this link.A detailed discussion about battery equalization, when why and how to do itMore good info here if you really want to get in the weeds.Bank Withdrawal: Monitoring With an Amp-Hour Meter | Cruising World
Re: House batteries equalizing. Reply #13 – November 27, 2018, 08:02:14 am " "W A R N I N G! Deep-cycle AGM or gel batteries should NEVER be equalized." "-----Conflicting information from the Trojan and Lifeline websites. Lifeline states that its AGMs can be equalized:Can I equalize AGM batteries? - Lifeline BatteriesDefinitely best to follow the manufacturer's recommendations!
Re: House batteries equalizing. Reply #14 – November 27, 2018, 08:22:55 am Quote from: Joan - November 27, 2018, 08:02:14 am" "W A R N I N G! Deep-cycle AGM or gel batteries should NEVER be equalized." "-----Conflicting information from the Trojan and Lifeline websites. Lifeline states that its AGMs can be equalized:Can I equalize AGM batteries? - Lifeline BatteriesDefinitely best to follow the manufacturer's recommendations!Conflicting information is the name of the game when researching equalization. The more you research it the more confused you can get 1 Likes
Re: House batteries equalizing. Reply #15 – November 27, 2018, 12:33:01 pm My Morningstar MPPT controller has dip switches to move according to the type of battery it is controlling.I use the Trojan T 105 flooded, it is set to manage those batteries. Doing this it will equalize once a month when it can.Unfortunately , my system won't get up to the recommended voltage, I can manage to get it up to about 15 volts, that is it.From my understanding, the batteries CAN get a build up on the plates making them work harder and provide less.Equalization is supposed to knock the build up off the plates, making them work as they should.On my controller, it says to not equalize AGM batteries, and placing the dip switches in the proper order will do that.
Re: House batteries equalizing. Reply #16 – November 27, 2018, 12:57:51 pm I've got the generic Costco batteries of which I check the water level maybe once a year.We have the PD inverter that I usually run in equalization maybe once a month. I run it for around 30+ minutes after re-charging the batteries after bringing the RV home out of storage.
Re: House batteries equalizing. Reply #17 – November 27, 2018, 01:31:40 pm Quote from: Jota - November 27, 2018, 12:33:01 pmMy Morningstar MPPT controller has dip switches to move according to the type of battery it is controlling.I use the Trojan T 105 flooded, it is set to manage those batteries. Doing this it will equalize once a month when it can.Unfortunately , my system won't get up to the recommended voltage, I can manage to get it up to about 15 volts, that is it.This is most likely because you would need more solar current output capability (more panels), or run pairs of panels in series, which the Morningstar can do. Alternatively use a converter which can do the job, if you feel the need. Steve
Re: House batteries equalizing. Reply #18 – November 27, 2018, 02:59:54 pm Quote from: Sawyer - November 27, 2018, 08:22:55 amConflicting information is the name of the game when researching equalization. The more you research it the more confused you can getThe biggest concern about equalizing is losing too much water, due to the electrolyte boiling.When still employed at LAX, my mechanics used several pallets of Trojan T105s a year, for replacements in electric carts and a wide range of battery-powered janitorial machines, and man-lift equipment, used inside of the buildings.The battery maintenance routine suggested by Trojan's engineers was used .Once a month, each battery pack was given several hours of equalizing by switching the chargers to the equalizing mode and testing the electrolyte before and afterwards.BTW- Trojan is recognized as the leading manufacturer in industrial batteries. I used their printed recommendations and advice from their field engineers when setting up the different battery maintenance routines at LAX. Some of our man-lifts had very expensive, custom-built batteries that weighed thousands of pounds and used huge 480-volt chargers. We wanted to keep them in service for as long as possible .Below is text taken directly from Trojan's site.Battery Maintenance | Trojan Battery Company"EqualizingStep-By-Step EqualizingVerify the battery(s) are flooded type.Remove all loads from the batteries.Connect battery charger.Set charger for the equalizing voltage (See Table 2 in the Charging section). If your charger doesn’t have an equalization mode, you can unplug the charger and re-plug it back in. This also will conduct the equalization charge.Start charging batteries.Batteries will begin gassing and bubbling vigorously.Take specific gravity readings every hour.Equalization is complete when specific gravity values no longer rise during the gassing stage."As you can see, a "proper" equalization is time consuming and requires access to the top of batteries for testing the electrolytic's specific gravity.For most of use who use lead-acid batteries, our converters and/or solar controllers perform more frequent but shorter period of equalizing. It is done automatically and is mostly fool proof as long as the level of electrolyte is maintained. A remote battery watering device make this task simple and clean. Testing of the electrolytic is not necessary unless a dead cell is suspected .If you have AGM batteries, yes, they can be equalized but the charger needs to be properly programed for AGMs and not to overcharge the battery, boiling out the non-replaceable electrolytic. LD, in the past and maybe even today, has replaced many AGMs, under warranty, that have failed due to the converter or solar controller overcharging. I have seen friends replace thousand of dollars worth of destroyed AGMs, when a converter or solar controller is defective or the voltage settings are not right for AGMs. AGMs are sensitive creatures that need special handing for a long life.Flooded lead-acid batteries are brutes that can take a lot of abuse, as long as the electrolytic level is maintained .Larry 2 Likes
Re: House batteries equalizing. Reply #19 – November 27, 2018, 03:36:56 pm "I have seen friends replace thousand of dollars worth of destroyed AGMs, when a converter or solar controller is defective or the voltage settings are not right for AGMs. AGMs are sensitive creatures that need special handing for a long life."---I replaced the original T-105s in my 2003 with (the first set of) AGMs several years ago; at the time, I did not know (and the installers apparently didn't, either) that the HPV-22B charge controller (which had replaced the original HPV-30S [?]) was not a good match for the AGMs. The third part of the equation was the original Parallax converter; the three components were like squabbling siblings that did not play well together. The controller allowed the batteries to overcharge to the point that one split at the terminal and the other had bulging sides.Now I have (300W of panels) a Progressive Dynamics multi-stage converter, a Blue Sky 3000i , the second pair of AGMS, and a lot more smarts about what works with what! Expensive lesson, but well learned! What I have now works well for me in the "sunset trail" of my RVing life, but if I were doing all of this over again with a new LD, I'd make sure to get the highest quality, state-of-the-art components and solar power system custom designed and installed from the get go. As ever, YMMV.
Re: House batteries equalizing. Reply #20 – November 27, 2018, 05:36:24 pm Just got home from town where I keep my LD in winter and I was glad to see my batteries were still charged well after sitting a month in cold weather. I kind of wondered about that. Exercised my generator and put a charge to them and should be good for another month. I was concerned batteries would go dead sitting for long periods in the cold but so far so good.
Re: House batteries equalizing. Reply #21 – November 27, 2018, 10:17:14 pm Quote from: Sawyer - November 27, 2018, 05:36:24 pmJust got home from town where I keep my LD in winter and I was glad to see my batteries were still charged well after sitting a month in cold weather. I kind of wondered about that. Exercised my generator and put a charge to them and should be good for another month. I was concerned batteries would go dead sitting for long periods in the cold but so far so good.Are you using a battery disconnect?Chris
Re: House batteries equalizing. Reply #22 – November 28, 2018, 08:53:05 am Quote from: Chris Horst - November 27, 2018, 10:17:14 pmAre you using a battery disconnect?ChrisNo they just sit there with everything off. Might be a good idea though
Re: House batteries equalizing. Reply #23 – November 28, 2018, 04:40:41 pm Quote from: RonB - November 26, 2018, 06:08:37 pmHi Jim and Aad; Trojan recomments equalization every 6 months to reverse any sulphation on the surface of the plates, and to stir up any stratification of the acid mix. In my opinion, driving the motorhome will accomplish agitation of the electrolyte, and the engine alternator routinely runs at 14.88 volts, pretty close to the 15v. target. 14.88 volts is not the proper charging voltage for your engine battery, once it is charged. In normal use, it should quickly reduce to the maintenance voltage of 13.8-14.0 volts, as all three of my E350/E450 motorhomes did. This is especially true for under the hood batteries, which are typically at elevated temperatures. If the voltage is really 14.88 volts, it will significantly shorten the battery life. Have you measured the charging voltage right at the battery terminals while cruising at 60-65 mph? A measurement elsewhere will be higher, and may explain why it's so high.
Re: House batteries equalizing. Reply #24 – November 28, 2018, 04:44:37 pm Quote from: Sawyer - November 27, 2018, 05:36:24 pmJust got home from town where I keep my LD in winter and I was glad to see my batteries were still charged well after sitting a month in cold weather. I kind of wondered about that. Exercised my generator and put a charge to them and should be good for another month. I was concerned batteries would go dead sitting for long periods in the cold but so far so good.Cold batteries, disconnected from the motorhome loads, take much longer to self-discharge, so they will go months in the winter without losing significant charge. Of course, if there is a drain on the batteries from a propane detector, etc, they will lose charge more quickly and need charging much sooner.
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