New Purchase Advice November 04, 2018, 02:12:01 pm First, I hope it's appropriate/okay that we joined the forum before we actually own a LD. We plan on purchasing a new 27' LD with mid bath. We were hoping we could get advice regarding factory options you either wish you would have included or those you realize after the fact were unnecessary. This will be our first RV, so any and all advice will be appreciated. Thanks.
Re: New Purchase Advice Reply #1 – November 04, 2018, 06:11:53 pm Welcome! You'll get lots of great advice. Most of us joined before we bought. I bought a used LD...but some people here who bought new will be glad to help you out. Marcia
Re: New Purchase Advice Reply #2 – November 04, 2018, 06:29:57 pm Koyla"...or those you realize after the fact were unnecessary."I initially thought I had to have a CB radio... but turns out it's the least used item I have, except for weather reports.But, had I passed on the back-up camera I would have still been kicking myself some thirteen years later. 1 Likes
Re: New Purchase Advice Reply #3 – November 04, 2018, 07:40:36 pm I have a floor model MB purchased from the factory so it came with most of the options. The second solar panel is very useful in ensuring the batteries are topped off. Never have needed to plug into shore power. The automatic satellite dish has/will never be used but YMMV. Backup camera is also very useful and I can’t imagine life without it. Automatic step is nice to have but definitely not a must have. Going on 9 years and still working but i hear they are prone to failure eventually. Outside shower is very useful for washing kids and misc. gear at the beach. I would have liked more electric outlets both 9V and 120V but wasn’t an option for the “as is” floor model. Good luck with your decisions! Either way you’ll love your LD I bet. 1 Likes
Re: New Purchase Advice Reply #4 – November 04, 2018, 11:30:24 pm Welcome! The knowledge and grace with which it is shared is amazing. Good Luck on your adventure. 1 Likes
Re: New Purchase Advice Reply #5 – November 05, 2018, 12:00:02 am Koyla123, it is appropriate to join the group if and only if you are interested in an LD. You passed that one easily enou.If this is your first RV it may also be your last, unless you replace it with a newer one in 10-15 years.I ordered a 2013 31 IB 11/2/13 for delivery mid Feb 2014. Took delivery 4/28/14.Options: 1 solar panel, backup camera, heated mirrors, opted out of carpet for linoleum, windshield cover. Regret not having 2nd solar panel, replacing with 3 next month.Backup camera has saved rear end (LD and personal one both) innumerable times.Heated mirrors also electronically adjustable from inside - worthwhile investment IMO.Outside shower came standard - would consider seriously if you have active children or dogs.Things I'd ask for on a do-over:120V outlet right side sofa behind pax seat.12V outlets in back near bed.Vent fan insulated cover (bought and installed later)Anchor points for a different awning (thank you layzybones for the idea). I use the awning infrequently because I am concerned about it's wind handling ability.Anchor points for an ADA grab bar in he shower.I don't watch much television so the current antenna works well enough. I use if for DVDs and computer monitor.That's a start.You might consider signing if you'd prefer not to be addressed as Koyla or Koyla123.There is a profile option to show location. If that is a concern, you can pick some well known spot for a reference. That way we can get an idea of what timezone you are in.Welcome aboard.Joel 2 Likes
Re: New Purchase Advice Reply #6 – November 05, 2018, 10:03:27 am Welcome! This forum is a valuable resource. You will get many differing opinions on a topic like this, but all will be valid and knowledgeably explained. Most folks on this forum are very experienced RV'ers in general, not just in regards to LDs. I have been RVing for nearly 4 decades, and I still learn lots of things from this forum.We took delivery of a new Rear Bath less than a year ago. We have already put nearly 10K miles on it, and we like it more with each trip. So, here are the options we purchased: Rear camera; electric mirrors, extra solar panel, and battery cut-out switch.Options that we absolutely knew we would not want, never use, or need -- based on owning several other motor homes and trailers and our owner philosophy of K.I.S.S. (keep it simple, Sam) -- were electric step, Sat TV; custom upholstery; outside shower; beefed-up shocks; CB radio; in-dash navigation.Others will respond with contrary ordering history. It's all good. Each to their own. We just prefer simple. That is one of the main reasons we chose LD. We did not want complications in our sunset years. No slides, e-steps, annually outdated tech such as in-dash nav, etc. 4 Likes
Re: New Purchase Advice Reply #7 – November 07, 2018, 08:34:25 am Kolya -- It appears that your thread is located in the "Instructional Sitr" and that it doesn't appear on the main home page. You might want to ask that the topic be moved into "Around the Campfire." It will receive more responses.
Re: New Purchase Advice Reply #8 – November 07, 2018, 12:08:32 pm Decisions I'm happy with... 2 solar panels, automatic step, cut off switch (should be standard)... things I'm not using... CB radio, outside shower, and satellite antenna . The availability of extra 110 and 12v plug ins seems to vary depending maybe on you talk to. I was told I couldn't have them. 2016 MB Frank
Re: New Purchase Advice Reply #9 – November 07, 2018, 05:16:15 pm Koyla, welcome. First, we cannot advise you very well on what to get. An option that works well for one person might be useless for another. Both are equally valid. What I will try to do is to discuss pros and cons for each item I can think of, I will tell you what I decided, why I made the choice, and after 10 years of fulltiming, what would I change.Let's start with what you see yourself doing. Will you be staying in full service campgrounds, hooking up to shore power and water, with a sewer connection, or will you be staying someplace with water and electric, but no sewer service, or will you be dry camping - no hookups of any sort? Are you going to be in the rig for a weekend, for a week, for a month, or for years at a time? Are you an electricity miser like many, or do you use a lot of electrical power, like me? Basically, try to get a sense of how you would like to use the rig. That will help you make your decisions.SOLAR The amount of solar you should get depends on how much power you need per day, on what kind of camping you do, and where and when you do it. If you do not watch much TV, if you use few if any electrical appliances, chargers, lights, etc, or if you plan to stay where you can plug into shore power (the campground electrical supply), you need little or no solar. If you will go out for weekends, but not for weeks at a time, and you use little electricity, one panel is probably fine. If you plan to be camping with no electrical hookup available, will be out for more than a weekend, and you watch a few hours of TV every evening, with some lights on, and you use a computer for an hour or so a day, you will have to either run your generator a lot or you will have to have more than one panel. If you are doing that in the winter, or up north, you will need more than two panels. If you know that you will not need more than two panels, having the factory install the solar is fine, but if there is any chance that you will need 4 or 6 batteries, with three or more panels, I recommend getting as little solar as possible from the factory. Rather, have a competent installer help you with determining your needs, sizing your system, and installing your system.What did I do? I calculated my needs, and determined that I needed at least 4 batteries, but 6 would be better. I got 6 batteries and 4 panels. After a number of years, I added a fifth panel. Here is how I use my system. I am on my computer for an hour or so in the morning and again in the afternoon. I have a DVR that is on 24/7. I have a TV that I watch for probably 4 to 6 hours a day. I have a CPAP machine that I use for about 10 hours per night. I use a coffee grinder every morning. I use the microwave almost every evening. I plug into shore power from October through April. The rest of the year, I depend on my solar and my generator. I use the generator when using the microwave. Most of the summer, I am in Wyoming, and I will run the generator if the day does not have good sun. On clear days, I do not need the generator except for when I am using the microwave.SATELLITE DISHIf your campsite is always under open skies and you watch much TV, this is a nice option. If you see yourself camping under trees, it will be useless, so I personally do not recommend it, but it might work for you. One of the State Parks in Oregon, La Pine, is a nice place, but I have had to set my satellite dish as far as 150 feet from my RV, where I found a 4 foot wide spot where I had a signal. A roof-mounted dish would have gotten no signal there.What did I do? I bought a dish and tripod, along with a Birdog Satellite meter, a 50' coax cable and a 100' coax cable. I set up my dish using a compass and level and the meter. It typically takes me 5 minutes or less to do so. Today, there are portable dishes that are self-aligning that are available.OUTSIDE SHOWERI ordered one, and have never used it. As pointed out above, they would be great for kids and dogs at the beach, or at a muddy spot. If I were doing it again, I would not order this, but others have found them useful.AUTOMATIC STEPI am somewhat disabled, and thought perhaps I should get the automatic step. Talking about it with Steve at the factory, he showed me how to hook the step with my toe to open or close the standard step. In 15 minutes, I decided I did not need the powered step. So far, that has been right.CB RADIOI ordered one and have used it perhaps 5 times in 10 years. Right now, mine is not connected and is stowed away. Doing it again, I would not get it. Its biggest value is if you are traveling in caravan with others. These days, you can get a pair of two way radio handsets that will take care of the caravan issue, plus they are useful when you have a helper and you are backing into something tight, while a CB Radio is useless for that. Looking back, I should not have gotten the CB Radio.BACKUP CAMERAIf you always have a helper to guide you when backing up, you can get by without this, but if not, I consider this to be an essential piece of equipment. When I am backing into a site, I do not have to get out and see how much farther I should back up. When I am hooking up my car to tow it, the camera shows me just where I am, saving time and effort. While after market systems can be bought and installed, the factory installed system works fine for me. I think it was worth every penny to have them do it as part of the build.MIRRORSYou definitely want to be able to align the mirrors from the driver's seat, so powered mirrors, whether heated or not, are wise.OUTLETSWhether 12v or 120v, I have yet to meet an RV'er who felt that their LD RV had too many outlets. If you can get more installed, do so.NON-FACTORY OPTIONSInverter - With my solar setup, I added a whole house inverter so I have 120v power available without running the generator. For me, that was a very wise choice.Hydraulic levelers - Some people use blocks to level their rig. Some use hydraulic levelers. It is important to have your rig fairly level to protect your refrigerator from damage. The disadvantages of hydraulic levelers are that they add several hundred pounds of weight, and they are another piece of equipment that might fail (mine never have). The biggest advantage is there is no need to exit the rig to level it. Imagine driving all day, pulling into a site that is rather unlevel, and having to run around in a pouring rain to get your rig level. I have been in sites so unlevel that, without my levelers, I would not be able to use the site. The levelers add flexibility to your traveling. The hydraulics reduce movement from the suspension system. For some this is not an issue, but it is discomforting to me to feel the coach moving and swaying as guests move around or as wind pushes on the coach. With the hydraulics, I can raise the coach fraome, either to change a flat tire or to do work under the coach. For me, I had Quadra Bigfoot levelers installed, and they are a very valuable option to me.SeeLevel gauges - these give you much more accurate information about fluid levels in your fresh water tank, your grey water tank, your black water tank and your propane tank. If you are a weekend warrior, you don't need them, but for extended camping without hookups, I recommend this. Depending on your skill set, you may be able to do the installation yourself.ScanGauge, UltraGauge, or other ODBII Reader - This is definitely in the non-essential but nice category. Mine allows me to see engine and transmission temperatures, how much farther I can drive before I run out of gas, and so on. Tire Pressure Monitor - To me, this is a must-have. If you depend on checking your tire pressure in the morning, that tells you what your tire pressure USED TO BE, not what it is after half an hour of driving. If the Schrader valve fails to seal after you check the pressure, or if you pick up a nail, you may be driving down the road with a tire that is going flat. In a large vehicle, you may not be able to feel the loss of pressure in one of the tires. If you are towing, you definitely cannot feel a flat in the car being towed. I ordered mine a month after placing my order for the rig, and installed it when I picked up the rig. There is plenty of room for debate about which kind of TPMS to get, but in my humble opinion, there is no room for debate about whether you should have one.Vent hoods - These fit over your Fantastic Fan vents, allowing the fans to be open and running in the rain. I think they are probably a nice after-market option. I have not gotten around to doing them myself, yet...OK, I am out of ideas to add. I hope this helps.Ken F in NM 7 Likes
Re: New Purchase Advice Reply #10 – November 07, 2018, 07:14:14 pm Quote from: Kenneth Fears - November 07, 2018, 05:16:15 pmWhat did I do? I calculated my needs, and determined that I needed at least 4 batteries, but 6 would be better. I got 6 batteries and 4 panels. After a number of years, I added a fifth panel. Ken F in NMKen, Where did you put the extra 4 batteries in the MB?
Re: New Purchase Advice Reply #11 – November 07, 2018, 07:34:04 pm hmmm this is one of those that the best answer is 'it depends'. AND what you want today will not what you want tomorrow 'cause it will change as you get more experience under you tires. I'll sure what we got and we we still like and don't like. Keep in mind we may camp different then you or we may not.Want we got12V Battery Disconnect Switch $85 Was a good idea then and still is a good idea.CB Radio $300 Complete waste of money. Never used it. With todays' cell phones you can do anything a CB will do but head or heels better. XM Radio Package $400 Some folks love XM I don't. By the time you buy the LD the 'free' trial is over. There is no way a middle duty truck will ever sound good music wise. Road and engine noise will always win. My family doesn't use music as background to conversations. We can and do travel for hours without saying anything. 2nd Solar Panel $800 Here's were it get YMMV real fast. We live in the Pacific Northwest. Rain and clouds are a given on the wet side. As others have said you need to calculate your power needs. We understand the limits (power use wise) and do our best to still inside of them. Next year of so I will be going to AM solar for an upgrade. Hardwood DashConsole Overlay $250 <smile> just makes Baxter look better not so much like a 'work' truck so I feel better. Pure vanity on our part.Tan Ultraleather CAB seats $750 If LD misleads about anything its this. Ultraleather is not leather. AND if we were thinking we would of remembered we have cats that have claws and have no problem using them to climb. We have them covered to protect the investment but ...... cloth would of been a better pick.Electric Coach Entry Step $300 DW and I have a difference on this purchase. She loves it. I just think it's one more point fo failure. About a year into it the step got stuck in the out position. On my way to get warranty work done on it I hit a concert wall -- cost me $500 to install a new electric coach step. Backup Camera $1200 Worth every penny. Covers blind spots your mirror will never see. Can also be use to monitor your toad while going down the road.Heated Power Mirrors $750 The heat option to the side being able to adjust your mirrors as you are sitting in the drivers seat is a blessing. If you have two drivers is saves time and discussions. Windshield Cover Don't remember the price. The one the factory sold us was a very good one. Sadly I left it behind at a RV park. When I called RV park they never found it. After that we used Reflectix. As a tip I also make a list of addition things you might need ie waxes, water holes, levelers, etc. The factory sells them at a good price. 2 Likes
Re: New Purchase Advice Reply #12 – November 08, 2018, 03:55:54 pm Linda, the two batteries in the outside compartment were removed, and I now use that space for storage. My final configuration uses the space under the forward dinette seat in my MB to hold 6-6v 220 Ah AGM batteries and my whole house 2000W inverter. Placing the batteries inside meant I had to use AGM batteries, so venting of hydrogen was not an issue. There was an unexpected big benefit from this placement, as well as from having a little bit more battery capacity than I actually needed on a regular basis. The uniform temperature and the moderate draw/recharge cycle resulted in a battery bank that was still good after 9 years of fulltiming. I changed out the old batteries then because I did not want to risk being on the road, having to wait for delivery of batteries with a failed bank, and having to move 6 batteries out, then 6 more in. After the replacement was done, I asked the shop to run a test on one of the old ones. They said they tested like almost new.Ken F in NM
Re: New Purchase Advice Reply #13 – November 08, 2018, 04:29:16 pm Quote from: LindaB - November 07, 2018, 07:14:14 pm Where did you put the extra 4 batteries in the MB?For most, two extra batteries are adequate and fairly easy to install in a Mid-Bath.Directly in back the exterior battery box is an interior storage compartment, under the refrigerator. It is the perfect spot for two extra batteries, keeping the battery cables short. You will find this mod on many MBs, used by full timers.To add to the list of aftermarket enhancements, installing a propane connection, with quick disconnect, is highly recommended, enabling the use a catalytic heater, using the onboard propane supply.To keep track remaining battery capacity, add a battery capacity meter.Victron BMV-702 Battery Monitor - - Amazon.comThis is a 'must have' item if upgrading the solar and batteries, every full timer needs one.I would only order an outdoor shower if the shower is next to the entry door. Why wash off if your feet are going to get dirty as you walk around and enter the rig? On our 23.5 FL model, the shower would have been on the driver's side. I added a fresh water nozzle next to the entry door, mostly used to wash beach sand off our feet.Exterior water spray | FlickrLarry 1 Likes As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: New Purchase Advice Reply #14 – November 08, 2018, 08:17:29 pm On a Mid-Bath, and probably on some of the other models, you can approximate an outdoor shower by opening the bathroom window and sticking the indoor shower head (with the factory longish hose) out the window. The control knobs are still inside, but many people use a shut off valve near the shower head to save water. This brings the on-off switch out the window along with the shower head. Just something to think about if you're on the fence about the outdoor shower. Rich'03 MB in NC 3 Likes
Re: New Purchase Advice Reply #15 – November 09, 2018, 11:56:10 am Larry, I agree with most of your battery placement suggestion under the fridge. It is very commonly done, it simplifies the connections and cable routing, and is a relatively simple installation. I think there are a few factors worthy of discussion. First, as the batteries placed under the fridge would be inside, they must be AGM's. Second, it is not a great idea to mix different battery types or sizes, so making the outside batteries AGM's to match the inside ones would be recommended. Third, for best battery life, having matching battery temperatures is a good idea, and this is my key concern with this placement. The two outside batteries will be subjected to quite different temperatures than the two inside ones. It is my understanding that this can stress the battery bank, during both charge and discharge operation. I think your idea of placing a faucet next to the door is a GREAT suggestion!Ken F in NM
Re: New Purchase Advice Reply #16 – November 09, 2018, 02:30:58 pm May I point out that non AGM batteries can be placed in-house if they are in a sealable vented to the outside box. I did this in our 98 ~ MB. The batteries are in a plastic tub with an outside vent. All of the passage ways to and from the tub are sealed. I installed them under the forward dinette seat with our 1500W inverter. This was done there since in this model year the main battery box with exterior door is located under the rear dinette seat. This way I could have both battery banks near eachother. I have done this setup in other SOBs all placed in sealed plastic tubs with sealable tops vented to the outside.We also like Larry's suggestion of a water sprayer at the door side of the LD. Karen~Liam 98 ~ MB NinA
Re: New Purchase Advice Reply #17 – November 09, 2018, 02:33:34 pm Photo above is of the Exterior Vent I have used, a simple metal 2" soffit vent Karen~Liam 98 ~ MB NinA
Re: New Purchase Advice Reply #18 – November 09, 2018, 05:01:25 pm Karen-Liam, how did you manage to seal the box so it is not just air tight but hydrogen tight? Hydrogen molecules are the smallest that exist, and can pass relatively quickly through materials such as balloon latex. I would be really interested in how you managed a seal tight enough to be certain no H was getting into the coach, yet able to be opened to check fluid level! That must have been a challenge.Ken F in NM
Re: New Purchase Advice Reply #19 – November 11, 2018, 11:49:34 am Good point Ken! our tub idea may not be adequately sealed for hydrogen gas. I assumed good ventilation would take care of it. We have not tested for the presents of hydrogen gas particles in any of our RVs which have used this tub set up. Karen~Liam 98 ~ MB NinA
Re: New Purchase Advice Reply #20 – November 11, 2018, 03:35:02 pm Quote from: Kenneth Fears - November 09, 2018, 11:56:10 am I think there are a few factors worthy of discussion. First, as the batteries placed under the fridge would be inside, they must be AGM's. Second, it is not a great idea to mix different battery types or sizes, so making the outside batteries AGM's to match the inside ones would be recommended. Third, for best battery life, having matching battery temperatures is a good idea, and this is my key concern with this placement. The two outside batteries will be subjected to quite different temperatures than the two inside ones. It is my understanding that this can stress the battery bank, during both charge and discharge operation. It is alway best to use the same model and age batteries and to replace all of them at the same time.Any battery placed in the interior must be an AGM (or lithium) or placed inside an air tight container that is vented to the exterior. Flooded batteries produce explosive hydrogen gases, when being chaged.Our old 1983 LD had a small battery. I built an air-tight box, in back of one of the barrel chairs, for two T-105 batteries. The box had two vents to the exterior. With AGMs, venting is not necessary .The exterior battery compartment has vents cut into the door. When adding batterie to the interiors, to help maintain even battery temps, insulate the battery door with an inch of closed cell form and make sure there is tight weatherstripping around the perimeter of the door. This will go a long way to help equalize the batteries operating environment temperature.Larry 1 Likes
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