Shock Time August 02, 2018, 06:38:50 pm The front shocks on my 07 LD MB are shot. They are the original Bilstein set from LD (not Ford). The original owner passed shortly after purchasing the LD and the RV sat in the desert for a few years. The RV had only 4k miles when I bought it off the second owner, so I actually expected the shocks to go bad a little quicker than normal. Even when I got the RV I thought the ride was a little harsh but well controlled. At 4k miles and 4-5 years old, the ride was likely very much what I can expect from new Bilstein shocks. I was pleasantly surprised they lasted this long (10-11 years from new and 45k miles). The shop that will do the work uses a Gabriel built RV gas shock available through a supplier. The car folks I know do not have a very high opinion of Gabriel shocks for performance or heavy use applications. The factory uses stock Ford or Bilstein shocks. I am about to pull the trigger on Koni FSD shocks. Looking for thoughts from the group here. If anyone has installed the Koni's I would very much like to hear your thoughts. I have not added any suspension goodies.
Re: Shock Time Reply #1 – August 02, 2018, 08:00:20 pm Quote from: John DaCrema - August 02, 2018, 06:38:50 pmIf anyone has installed the Koni's I would very much like to hear your thoughts. I have not added any suspension goodies.John, we are the second owners of a 2007 TK. One of the first things I did not long after purchase was to replace the original Ford shocks with KONI FSDs. Our LD had 36K miles when we bought it and we had put about 1,600 miles on it when I put the KONIs on. So far I have been very pleased with them; now we experience less wallowing and porpoising going down the road. The downside is they are expensive.Charles 1 Likes
Re: Shock Time Reply #2 – August 02, 2018, 08:54:03 pm Another vote for Koni. Had them put on in 2016 with just under 50k and are happy with them.Jim 1 Likes
Re: Shock Time Reply #3 – August 02, 2018, 09:01:37 pm Like Charles and Donna, we have a Twin King (2015) with 30,000 miles. Often we haul a Honda 250 Rebel motorcycle on the back that weighs about 350 pounds. We put the Koni FSDs on. I really wasn't unhappy with the way it was handling before, but there is a noticeable improvement in the swaying and "porpoising." I also notice less pushing around when being passed by large trucks. And, yes, they are expensive. I'm counting on them lasting us a long time. While I have no experience with Bilsteins I get them impression the Konis may ride a bit smoother. Joe 1 Likes
Re: Shock Time Reply #4 – August 03, 2018, 08:55:17 am I finally bit the bullet and replaced the hard riding Bilstein shocks I ordered from LD on my 2003 Mid Bath. Should have done it years ago (like as soon as I returned home from the Mothership). Hated the Bilsteins from the get go. The shop I use replaced them with NAPA RV shocks. The ride and handling are much improved over the Bilsteins. 2 Likes
Re: Shock Time Reply #5 – August 03, 2018, 09:09:07 am NAPA's "Gas Grande" RV shock?Those Koni's are 'spensive. 1 Likes
Re: Shock Time Reply #6 – August 03, 2018, 09:30:28 am Just checked. NAPA Gas Grande RV shocks. Front $282/each, rear $318/each plus installation. Absolutely love them! 2 Likes
Re: Shock Time Reply #7 – August 03, 2018, 11:10:45 am Quote from: H. T. P. - August 03, 2018, 09:30:28 amJust checked. NAPA Gas Grande RV shocks. Front $282/each, rear $318/each plus installation. Absolutely love them!Wow!! I thought my KONIs were expensive; I paid @160 each delivered for them back in late 2017.Charles 1 Likes
Re: Shock Time Reply #8 – August 03, 2018, 12:37:19 pm https://www.napaonline.com/en/search?text=RV%2Bshocks&referer=sidebar_form-exactfitThey only show "2000 Ford E-350 Super Duty one-ton" in the vehicle selection area.Shocks are about $80 each for the front and rear... Unless I'm "holding it wrong".They don't specifically list the cutaway chassis, but it does say RV/ambulance in notes.
Re: Shock Time Reply #9 – August 03, 2018, 01:09:15 pm Front $282/each, rear $318/each plus installation.--- These prices seem way out of line for "generic" shocks applicable to the Ford E-450 chassis. Shock Warehouse sells Koni FSDs for $158 per shock.https://www.shockwarehouse.com/site/product.cfm?id=1579158https://www.shockwarehouse.com/site/product.cfm?id=1579157Bilsteins are less than Konis, and offer a regular and a "softer ride" version. I'd sure do a bit of price comparison, but YMMV. 2 Likes
Re: Shock Time - OOPS!! Reply #10 – August 03, 2018, 02:34:13 pm Went back and looked at the invoice again. Read it wrong.Price was for two of each, or $141 for each front and $159 for each rear. My wife says my hearing is bad, guess the eyesight is going too. 2 Likes
Re: Shock Time Reply #11 – August 04, 2018, 03:13:31 pm Thanks everyone for the help on this forum, by PM, and by email. I'm lucky to have so many friends. The Shock Warehouse site that Joan referenced had Koni shocks for sale that were only a little more costly than the NAPA shocks mentioned in my estimate (which were only a little more than H.T.'s price point). The Koni shocks are on the way now. Incidentally the Shock Warehouse website had a lower price at $157.95 ea, than those on the Koni's website at $179.10. Both sites price front and rear shocks the same. Also the Koni site is not a "buy direct" from Koni. They use the third party "Kibo". Kebo does not stock the items but relays orders so they don't have to warehouse the items. I discovered this when I had to log into the site and noticed that a few years ago a non car related item that also used the same Kibo ordering site. Both times I ordered through a Kibo site I had to wait while the items were "restocked". Shock Warehouse had the Koni shocks in stock, after the Kebo experience I made a point in asking.According to the shop that is doing the work on my RV the NAPA shock is made by Gabriel for RVs. Gabriel is a principal sub under "Ride Control, LLC" and make OEM shocks for Ford and other companies as well as the Gabriel line of aftermarket shocks. That is a good thing in that I have heard good things about both Gabriel and Ford shocks. (see: Gabriel | About Us - Leading the way through innovation for more than 100 years) I just prefer the Koni shocks from by sports car background.Depending on time and memory I'll update this after the shocks are installed with initial my impressions of the Koni shocks. Everyone please take care and have fun. 2 Likes
Re: Shock Time Reply #12 – August 16, 2018, 12:08:35 pm The shocks arrived today from Shock Warehouse. I used the link that Joan gave. It took a little while to process the order but once confirmed they were quickly dispatched to ground transport. I had to ask for a shippping number for tracking but that and other questions I asked were all answered the same day or early on the next business day. I’ll give a thumbs up to Shock Wharehouse for price and customer satisfaction. They also sell othe items and brands so this may be a good site to check for items. John 1 Likes
Re: Shock Time Reply #13 – August 16, 2018, 01:38:27 pm Quote from: John DaCrema - August 02, 2018, 06:38:50 pmThe front shocks on my 07 LD MB are shot.May make little difference at this point, but it did not sound like the shocks were bad from your description. What DOES happen with these is deterioration of the upper mounting bushings, causing them to fall out, and leaving the shock mounting loose. This would cause a similar effect to loss of fluid from most shocks, but with added noise...Steve
Re: Shock Time Reply #14 – August 16, 2018, 02:15:50 pm Steve, thanks for your post and concern. I had the front end looked at by a place I trusted and they agreed the oil I saw was from the shocks. I should have mentioned that in a earlier post. Long ago I restored a car or two and went to a clinic on shocks with a car club. The clinic was at a Koni facility in VA not far from where I now live. (That shop moved long ago to another state). The guy giving the tour said that it is not unusual to find the shocks go bad early in the life cycle when cars sit a long time. That is because the rod to shock's piston gets oxidized just past the seal. Then when the car goes back into service the seal gets abused from a rougher surface. In normal use that rod stays clean and lubed from the motion caused by suspension movement. That briefing was in the late 70's or early 80's and shocks have come a long way. There is a speed bump on the road leading to my house. In 2011 after buying the RV and even last year there was noticeably less float going over that bump. Incidentally, that speed bump would have been ugly for my 62 Healey 3000. It was a Healey Club event that went to the Koni facility. John
Re: Shock Time Reply #15 – August 16, 2018, 02:44:34 pm This is normal with these gas-pressurized shocks - you may have been fed a line. See the bottom of this page from the manufacturer:Warranty - BILSTEINSteve 1 Likes
Re: Shock Time Reply #16 – August 16, 2018, 09:51:33 pm Steve,This is a very good discussion for folks with older Lazy Daze's. I looked at the site you linked to. First off any warranty is out of the question as I am not the original owner. Also as stated earlier I am not a fan of the ride associated with the Bilstein shocks. I am well aware that it is a common problem for our Ford Econoline based RVs to have bad shock bushings. Indeed this will cause bounce. But a look underneath the RV will tell the owner a lot. The example cited as normal in the link above shows some dust and oil about the shock's body. For one of my two front shocks the oil and dust was not so much a light coating but a river trying very hard to resemble the Cuyahoga River before the fire. The other front shock resembled the example but I was taught to always replace paired ware components as a pair. My conclusion even before I visited the shop was a pair of new front shocks were in order. When going into the shop I simply asked them to inspect the front end to explain the front tire ware. In that I was replacing the fronts, I thought the time was ripe to do the rears, even if they were ok for now given age, sitting still for a long time, and dissatisfaction with the ride. Also even if it was worn out bushings; given the labor cost to replace the bushings, replacing shocks is prudent if one is having someone else do the work. For those with the facility and ability to lift a corner of the RV at home, remove the wheel and muck about the suspension the equation may be different. I do not have that space and actually know that I am no longer in condition to do the necessary work in the heat and humidity here in the MidAtlantic. While the work is not rocket science the items are very heavy and care needs to be taken. The wrench level, one wrench easy and ten go to hell difficult, is not high but because the mental difficulty and the physical and conditions associated with the work that make it difficult push the level higher than it would be for a car or even a pickup. The owner needs a level working surface (plastic leveling blocks are not a good idea for this kind of level) and well chocked wheels. Note that the parking brake on a pre 08 Ford will not stop the RV from moving once one of the rear wheel assemblies are off the ground.I really hope I have not come off harsh. I almost did not reply. Steve brings up some very important points that folks need to check before replacing their shocks. I did the checks and am very comfortable with my decision. I am also very comfortable with the shop doing the work AFTER they came to he same conclusion that I did. Finally, if I was replacing the shocks/struts on a MINI, BMW or Benz I might consider Bilstein shocks. They are a quality product. I just don't like them for this application.John 1 Likes
Re: Shock Time Reply #17 – August 16, 2018, 11:06:26 pm I run Koni yellows on my VW and after 100k miles they are still like new - I love them.My Jeep has Bilstein shocks and the upper bushings have failed in the rear shocks after 50k miles. The rubber bushing literally broke apart and metal bar pin was literally banging on the metal hoop. From what I understand this was a common problem for some time. The shocks still work great although the defective bushings failed quite early.
Re: Shock Time Reply #18 – August 17, 2018, 11:51:46 am JohnLet us know what you think of the Koni shocks.Late to the party on this but there is another Shock choice, Bilsten’s Comfort RV shocks. The construction is the same as the regular Bilsteins but with softer riding valving. I run them on the rear of our 23.5’ FL and used to have them on the front axle but found I preferred the regular Bilsteins in that position.The Bilsteins Comforts ride similarly to the stock Ford shocks but are better built to continue performing for many years.Larry 2 Likes
Re: Shock Time Reply #19 – August 23, 2018, 09:18:10 pm The new shocks are in. The drive home was much more controlled so there was stuff going on with the shocks ... or the bushings. I was on the Washington DC beltway (I-495) and some local roads. The ride was about the same as the bad shocks (soft) but when a large truck or tractor-trailer past the bow wave and vacuum behind the bow wave had almost no effect. The expansion joints were noticeable but not expansion jolts.Tomorrow will be a better test. I am going to St. Michael's MD to camp on a friend's place to attend for a Austin Healey meet. I have not owned a Healey for a long time but was in on the founding of the DC area club. The trip will take me over many types of road in many levels of condition. Much of the rout is on US50 and I will cross the Chesapeake Bay Bridge, not to be confused with the Bay Bridge Tunnel. This is a major truck rout and I get a better idea of what its like to be pushed around as they pass. With the old shocks I could feel a small push from the bow wave off a Honda van doing 70-80 MPH, not so much now. Take care and I hope everyone is safe from weather and fires. And gets a chance to enjoy the out doors.John
Re: Shock Time Reply #20 – August 23, 2018, 09:55:25 pm Hello John - let me know if you ever plan to travel down to the Tidewater area as I would love to learn more about your LD. My home is in Yorktown although I travel throughout the area on a regular basis. Give us an update on the shocks as you learn more
Re: Shock Time Reply #21 – August 23, 2018, 09:56:08 pm Quote from: John DaCrema - August 23, 2018, 09:18:10 pmThe new shocks are in. What was the final configuration (front and back)? And did you go with Koni shocks? I'm looking forward to more of your review after your next road trip.
Re: Shock Time Reply #22 – August 23, 2018, 10:16:45 pm Ed, Koni's at all four corners. A softer Bilstein or Gabriel made shock (they also make the new Ford shocks, but that does not mean the specs are the same for different brands that Gabriel makes).Chet, would be glad to meet with you. I have not offered before simply because the family is keeping me busy. I really like the tidewater area. My daughter did her undergrad at Cristopher Newport, so I know about the Newport News Campground. Very close to Jamestown, Yorktown, and Williamsburg. Last trip down I found the nicest little micro brew. Close to Jamestown (the reenactment one, as opposed to the actual settlement that is run by the park service). I believe you can only get their beer at a few restaurants aside from the brewery. There is also a good chow wagon that sells a very nice German menu for lunch. Now all the trips are about getting the rig ready for the NE LD meet in Vermont. It is just a few weeks away. Cant wait!John 1 Likes
Re: Shock Time Reply #23 – August 23, 2018, 10:23:13 pm The trip this weekend will have a few curvy roads and some with ruts. That will be a better test. Most of the pot holes here have been somewhat patched on the interstate and main highways. So it is difficult to compare rides. Better control is the key though. I am so far very impressed. It is just that I am comparing it to a rig with very bad shocks. So not a fair test for the Bilstein's or Ford shocks. 1 Likes
Re: Shock Time Reply #24 – August 28, 2018, 03:01:15 pm Follow up The trip this weekend with just the shocks added were a eye opener. For example; when that very brave sole risked his life by cutting in front of me, only because he needed to be at the hospital immediately to save the person that was going to save the world, and I had to jam on my brakes. The RV had a little more nose dive as compared to what I recall when the RV was new to me (at 4000-5000 miles) in 2011 and even in 2015 at 30,000 mi. But the control was about the same. Going over potholes was about the same maybe not quite as bad. The big difference were the expansion joints in the highway. I did not really feel those so much. Sway from trucks passing was much improved as compared to any time I have owned the RV. I don't really understand how shocks alone could help this but it is noticeable. While I was in the shop they reported that the upper and lower ball joints were showing some ware. I made an appointment for today to have those replaced and the front end aligned. That was before the weekend trip. On the way home I was starting to second guess the need for the alignment. I should not have. I dropped off the RV with the 55 gals or so of water and soap and waste in their appropriate tanks from our weekend camping trip. I was going to dump but time was short and I figured that we would want the extra weight on the suspension. Shims were added to correct the castor which was off. The RV tracks much better and steering response (turn in) is better with the same tire pressure. I can't fairly judge the turn in with when the RV was new to me as to much time has gone by. Also I run softer tires now because I know the weights on each axel. All in all I am very happy with the change in shocks and the front end work. If the problem had been just the bushings going bad it would have required me to remove and replace the shocks anyway. The logic being if I go so far as to replace the bushings, given the age and amount of work involved, it is worth while replace the shocks while I am there. I am the third owner of this RV. There is no warranty coverage for this case. If I was the original owner the view towards the work might be different. My RV has a 2007 vin. The original owner did a wheel alignment, perhaps in 08 (I have the paperwork in the RV), the second owner did not mention having an alignment being done (he got the RV with about 3k miles). The RV has 47k miles and 11 years of use. It is likely the years that have been hardest on the RV but I have driven down some interesting roads.Take care and have a good weekend.John 2 Likes
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