Engine battery and battery disconnect switch

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Engine battery and battery disconnect switch

April 15, 2018, 11:29:15 pm

My 89 came with a knife blade disconnect battery switch if it was to be sitting for A length of time. About a year ago when I had it tuned up the mechanic took it off as he said it could be dangerous which I have read some others had said. So I thought no big deal. The past year the LD has always started. The battery was new and I took it out every other week for a ride. So I was unable to drive the LD for about 2 and 1/2 months and when I went to start it there wasn't enough juice to turn the engine over. I know I will be gone in June for a full month and will not be driving it. My question is should I put the knife blade battery disconnect switch back on to disconnect or should I just disconnect the negative ground from the battery? I have a side mount battery. The LD has no generator and the house batteries charges off solar panels. I believe there is an after market alarm that was put in that I need to disconnect which is pulling power from the battery,I don't think it even works, just pulling power. I am not that well adverse when it comes to all the stuff that an RV pulls from the engine battery. So guessing they can go dead faster than a car battery.

I am not a full timer and only do camping around the Southern California area so it's a bummer to go out to start the LD after 2 months and it's won't start. The LD sit out in a storage area with no electricity so I can't hook the battery to a trickle charger. I have a Norco 2.5 W solar battery charger/maintainer but have read if you keep it connected 24/7 that at night the LED light on the unit which stays on all the time will draw from your battery so doesn't sound like good way to ensure your battery stays charged. Any input is appreciated, also I hate where they put the battery tray on the driver's side which all that other stuff, it's a B to get out.
Thanks again
Hank

Re: Engine battery and battery disconnect switch

Reply #1 – April 16, 2018, 01:03:26 am

Fully charge and then disconnect the battery when storing your LD for a long period.
A battery switch makes this an easier chore and it's beneficial to be able to disconnect all the batteries.

You might want to get a portable battery booster.
This is the one we carry, it cranks and starts the V10 repeatedly. Amazon.com: Antigravity Batteries AG-XP-10 Multi-Function Power Supply and...

Larry

As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Engine battery and battery disconnect switch

Reply #2 – April 16, 2018, 10:18:33 am

I got one of these for the towd at Harbor Freight a couple of years ago. I checked the rig earlier this month and found the battery down.
I hooked this up and it's now fine:
Solar Charger

Re: Engine battery and battery disconnect switch

Reply #3 – April 16, 2018, 01:31:09 pm

Kismet...

My DW, DD, and three small K9 family members enjoyed 8 days in Yosemite Valley this past week. It was beautiful and the weather was fantastic.

Saturday afternoon I noticed that my SmoothTalker Cell Phone Booster has been left plugged into the cab 12 volt outlet. My DD had charged her portable gaming device also. Final note...I never checked to see if the engine would start....it DIDN’T😫

Earlier in the week I loaned my Cobra Jumper Cables to a couple in the CG to start their car. A few sites down someone else was busy under their hood. This should have been a sign...right?

I had been checking for the “Float” icon on the BlueSky to appear but although I had reach peak Coach Battery charge, I wonder if the chassis battery ever got a sip of the sun filled juice.

Hmmm.... As has been discussed on LDO, the LD generator does a lousy job at charging the chassis battery. Sunday morning proved this point only too well. After almost 2 hours, the genny had done no good. Yeah...I didn’t have my trusty battery charger either.

Luckily for me, my neighbor, Carlos had a fully charged DBPOWER portable jumper/charger.

The LD chassis battery was stone cold dead. Carlos attatched the unit to my rig and a second later that beautiful V10 fired right up. I was very grateful for his help...very grateful.

Larry’s suggestion of the Antigravity device was spot on but for me the price was a bit steep. So, stupidly, I put off the purchase. When the DBPOWER unit proved itself, I went straight to Amazon and ponied up the cash for one. At less than half the cost of the antigravity unit, I hope it lives up to its YouTube reputation.

https://youtu.be/o32x83OaxPo

https://youtu.be/ZzkZKjz3FoE

Next purchase...a reliable battery charger for the rig. Any suggestions for this device?
From now on I will fire up the engine every few days to safeguard against such a calamity and restrict the dash outlets for “driving charges” only.

Lesson learned.

Kent

Re: Engine battery and battery disconnect switch

Reply #4 – April 16, 2018, 02:37:58 pm

Camping and traveling in the backcountry, one of my big fears is dead battery and no way to start the engine.
Our LD has been been rewired with a marine battery switch that allows using the coach battery to start the engine and the starting battery to start the coach's generator.
In case that fails, the booster battery is available.

The booster is normally carried in the Jeep, since it is often separated from the LD, for day trips.
Whatever type you buy, try starting your LD with starting battery disconnected, using only the booster battery.
Only run the engine for a few moments when using just the booster.
Doing this, I have started the V10 ten times in a row, with no slowdown in cranking speed.
Recharge the booster battery every six months and try it out occasionally to make sure it still has enough capacity to start the LD's engine.
We have a second, smaller booster for my wife's car. While barely cranks and fires the V10, it spins a 4-cylinder engine easily.
Get a big booster for the V10.

Larry

Re: Engine battery and battery disconnect switch

Reply #5 – April 16, 2018, 03:16:21 pm

Kent and forum, I see the DBPOWER jump starter on Amazon for the next hour for $56, free shipping

Re: Engine battery and battery disconnect switch

Reply #6 – April 16, 2018, 04:11:22 pm

You never know when these “lightning” deals will strike. https://youtu.be/vV8wBsyFQao

Kent

Re: Engine battery and battery disconnect switch

Reply #7 – April 16, 2018, 04:27:42 pm

Since this item says it is applicable for engines up to 6.5 L, I’m wondering how well it would perform on a 6.8L V-10?
Dale from Downey.

Re: Engine battery and battery disconnect switch

Reply #8 – April 16, 2018, 06:06:26 pm

Dale,

Saturday night my ‘15 RB was dead as a door nail. No dash lights, no power captains chair, no electric door locks...

Sunday morning after two hours of running the generator, nothing had changed.

Carlos has a Class A Winnebago with a Ford e450 (if memory serves) and it worked for him. When he attatched it to my e450 V10 it fired up the engine with no hesitation. It was as if my battery had cranked it over. No problem whatsoever.

I anticipate no troubles. I also never hope to need it, but only time will tell.

Kent

Re: Engine battery and battery disconnect switch

Reply #9 – April 16, 2018, 06:15:03 pm

Kent; This is what you want. It is small, inexpensive, always there to work, and works well since you already have solar. Yes even you can install it. I've had one working for years now. Without clips MSRP at $49.95

Ultra TRIK-L-START Starting Battery Charger/Maintainer

As far as I know, the generator and converter , no matter how long you run it, won't charge your engine (chassis) battery. There are previous threads about this device. And u-tube videos for installation tips. RonB

Re: Engine battery and battery disconnect switch

Reply #10 – April 16, 2018, 06:32:13 pm

Ron,

Very interesting. It looks as though the unit is receiving its power from the coach batteries which in my case are charged by my 200 watts of solar.

I’m curious as to how well the device will be at charging a chassis battery after it has been drained by inadvertent discharge (ie. 12 volt outlet usage, etc). Any experience in those situations?

I looks pretty straight forward. Thanks.

Kent

Re: Engine battery and battery disconnect switch

Reply #11 – April 16, 2018, 06:44:09 pm

No, it's a trickle charger, but it can run up to 5 amps to replace a drain (less than the 5 amps) that would come out of your chassis battery, as long as the sun is shining and your house batteries are fully charged. You should plug the cell phone transponder and battery chargers into the 12 vdc. plug from your house batteries, Not from the engine start battery. Those dash plugs are for when the engine is running and you are driving. RonB

Re: Engine battery and battery disconnect switch

Reply #12 – April 16, 2018, 07:11:21 pm

Thanks Ron,

Our RB has only one Coach 12volt outlet under the dinette. Believe me...it gets a workout. The other 12 volt outlet is inside the cabinet near the TV. I’ll see it that would be a better spot for the Cell Booster.

Always something to look forward to. Hey, I love a good challange as long as it comes with a good cup of coffee.

To get back to Hanks original post. Hank, you may want to consider replacing the battery cutoff on your rig. We had the Mothership install our cutoff switch when it was being built. I can’t imagine LD would install something that would cause them a liability. Others here have installed marine style cutoff switches if I’m not mistaken.

The portable solar trickle charger light can be defeated, I believe. Check out this YouTube video on the subject.https://youtu.be/RxKCUzwIrH4

Hope this helps.

Kent

Re: Engine battery and battery disconnect switch

Reply #13 – April 16, 2018, 08:30:01 pm

Kent and Hank; The cutoff that Lazy Daze installs, just shuts off the house batteries. The engine (chassis) battery will still go dead after a few months. That is the nature of a lead acid battery. Hank, the knife switch is dangerous because so much of it is exposed, and can easily inadvertently be shorted to ground. Sparks while opening or closing it could ignite nearby gasoline fumes, or Hydrogen gas from the battery, sometimes the battery explodes. Better sealed marine grade switches exist today for use under the hood, and could be used for long term storage. Of course, cheaper to just disconnect the negative battery lead.

Perko Compact Medium Duty Main | Battery Disconnect Switch

That 2.5 watt solar panel might cancel out the self discharge of your house batteries. Another one in the range of 5 to 7.5 watts should keep your chassis battery topped off while just sitting. The engine computer keeps a small drain on the chassis battery, along with station memory for your car radio if it is attached to the chassis battery. In most Lazy Dazes, the radio is attached to the house battery. RonB

4.5w Solar Panel Kit / Trickle Charger for 12v Vehicle Boat Automobile...

Re: Engine battery and battery disconnect switch

Reply #14 – April 17, 2018, 11:45:31 am

Thanks for all the input. Can you guys tell me is the Marine style disconnect switch easy to install and is mounted into the engine compartment? The less wiring the better it is for me.
Thank
Hank

Re: Engine battery and battery disconnect switch

Reply #15 – April 17, 2018, 12:54:46 pm

Hank,

In our ‘15 RB, the coach battery disconnect is mounted in the battery bay. Ease of installation? Mine was installed at the Mothership. Others here can attest to the ease of the installation. I leave these kinds of things to the professionals.

YouTube has several posts on “RV Coach Battery Disconnect/Cutoff Switch”. Perhaps these can answer some of your concerns.

Kent

Re: Engine battery and battery disconnect switch

Reply #16 – April 17, 2018, 01:18:28 pm

I'll second Ron B's comment about the Trik-L-Start connected to the solar/house batts. LDy Lulubelle had that when I got her, so I don't know anything about installation.

She lives in the machine shed out at the farm, where she may be undercover with no sun for several weeks (3-8...) at a time. A couple of times the Blue Sky display has indicated the house batts down to <50%

because we've not had enough sun/days without storms to leave her out to recharge, but the coach battery has fired every time.

The only problem I've had was actually during the return from Ladeze two years ago--thought I'd left the headlights on or something, but it seemed odd with the Trik-L-Start...I'd find someone to give me a jump with my cables & head on down the road with no problems & the same thing would happen the next time I shut the rig off to go somewhere. After the third time I got myself to an O'Reilly's in Denver & the battery was way past its expiration (I'd had her for > three years, & don't remember when her previous family told me they'd put in the one I was using); new battery from O'Reilly's/I'm good to head to Missouri/nary a problem since.

...jumper cables are good (used them when I pulled the Baby Deere out to attack the lawn last week), but Larry & Kent's suggestions are on my Mother's Day gift-to-self list.

Lynne

Re: Engine battery and battery disconnect switch

Reply #17 – April 17, 2018, 05:20:28 pm

Hank, That disconnect switch is fairly large, and I don't know if it will fit under your hood. The 250 amp rating would probably be ok with the starter current, as long as it wasn't often or prolonged. You don't want to turn off that battery as a routine thing. The run time memory of the engine computer would be erased, and it is several starts, warm up/cool down cycles and days worth (and miles) of relearning by the computer before your engine system would go back to closed loop operation. In an older vehicle it might not run very well for several days.
   Lynne; think of an externally mounted solar panel(s) with regulator near your barn, clipped onto your engine battery, or house batteries (not disabled) to keep your batteries topped off during storage.
   Kent; turning off your house batteries, doesn't affect your chassis battery. Generator, Solar, or plugged in doesn't charge your chassis battery. Only the engine alternator, with engine running, charges the chassis battery. Your MB is new enough that IF you have the Blu-Sky 3000i controller, and IF, LD hooked up it's secondary maintainer (intended for the chassis battery), then disconnecting the wire between the two 6 volt house batteries, which is how LD turns off the house batteries, would also disable the maintainer charging of the chassis battery.
   When people disconnect the house batteries, the solar controller, be it RV-30S, HPV-22 (B or not), or BlueSky 3000i, is disabled also, since the controller has no +12v source or reference. So no amount of sun will charge anything.
   I hope this is making things easier.....   RonB

Re: Engine battery and battery disconnect switch

Reply #18 – April 18, 2018, 08:34:51 pm

Dale you said, “Since this item says it is applicable for engines up to 6.5 L, I'm wondering how well it would perform on a 6.8L V-10?”

I received my DBPOWER Portable Car Jumper and the owners manual states...”Don’t start any petrol engine exceeding 6.5L or Diesel engine exceeding 5.2L or it will cause damage to the device and danger to you”.

Now, although the unit my campground neighbor used worked fine, I am leaning to get the Antigravity or Similary rated 6.8L or greater device and keep the DBPOWER in my car or truck.

Better safe than sorry. What’s money anyway, right?

Kent

Re: Engine battery and battery disconnect switch

Reply #19 – April 19, 2018, 01:37:29 pm

There is essentially no difference between 6.5 liters and 6.8 liters. For one thing, the compression ratio matters way more. (don't try starting a Diesel!) Secondly these little batteries are only assisting a battery that may be too weak to start your engine. They are not able to start the engine by themselves. Obviously these 'technical' writers just picked a convenient number out of the air. RonB

Re: Engine battery and battery disconnect switch

Reply #20 – April 19, 2018, 02:27:47 pm

Quote from: RonB - April 19, 2018, 01:37:29 pm

) Secondly these little batteries are only assisting a battery that may be too weak to start your engine. They are not able to start the engine by themselves.

The Antigravity battery I listed will start the V10 by itself.
I disconnected the starting battery and used the lithium booster battery to start the engine ten times in a row.
A smaller battery may not be able to do this.
Cheaper is not always better.

Larry

Re: Engine battery and battery disconnect switch

Reply #21 – April 19, 2018, 03:33:25 pm

I put a request into DBPOWER For their opinion on the difference between the V10 6.8L vs their limitation of the 6.5L engine. I’ll see if they respond.

All-in-all, the engine size alone doesn’t seem to represent a practical challenge for the device.

All the videos I’ve seen where battery’s have been disconnected and engines started using only the Jumper would indicate the device should work to start a vehicle with the deadest of battery’s. Larry has indicated that the device does work in such conditions. That’s practical knowledge at its best. What more can you ask for?

I’m no expert in the matter. I generally tend to weigh all my options.

Just say’in...

Kent

Re: Engine battery and battery disconnect switch

Reply #22 – April 19, 2018, 07:39:44 pm

Hi Larry and Kent. I have two of the Costco Winplus jump starters at $60, and the batteries are much smaller at 8 Amp hours. The DBPower is 18 Amps, over double the capacity at about the same price, so I'm going to have to buy one. The Winplus does caution to not try starting an engine without the battery in place, but maybe that is why. I've only needed the Winplus twice for me, and twice for other stranded people and has worked every time. (I really have to remember to turn off the cars before I get out). RonB

Re: Engine battery and battery disconnect switch

Reply #23 – April 25, 2018, 09:14:17 pm

Getting all charged up about this...

I received the DBPOWER lithium ion jump start battery and posed a question to them regarding its ability to start the e450 V10, but as of yet, I have not received a reply in those regards.

I did order and just received my Micro Start XP-10 lithium ion jump start battery from Antigravity and have read all their cautionary notes and it’s capabilities.

The XP-10 is capable of starting Diesel engines up to 7.3 Liters and gas engines (notably V8’s as stated in their manual) up 500 cubic inches which by my conversion app is an 8.19 Liter engine (significantly larger than the e450’s 6.8 V10...).

As a stand by, and a matter of principle, I also purchased the Schumacher SE1052 50/10/2 Amp manual battery starter/charger. It has received positive reviews online and on YouTube.

My plan: The XP-10 will be a dedicated jumper for the LD and other vehicles. The DBPOWER will be used while in the LD as a power supply to augment the charging needs of cell phones etc. The Schumacher will be there for moral support and just in case...if all else fails. Along with this I also have a Solar Trickle Charger for the chassis battery...

Already on board the LD are my Cobra Jumper Cables. Extremely solid and a must have in my book no matter what other devices I have for the chassis battery. Also included: a suitably long extension cord to power the Schumacher.

One thing to note is that the XP-10 is for 12 volt lead acid batteries only. This is something to keep in mind. The included instructions are very specific of what can and can not be done with the unit.

While I may not take the obvious step and test the XP-10 on the e450’s chassis battery as Larry has done, I feel confident that I have taken all the necessary steps to forstall any further mishaps as I have already experienced. Thanks Larry.

Charge ‘em if you got ‘em..

Kent

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