Buying new? March 04, 2018, 09:15:13 am Because of the lack of availability of LDs here in the Northeast I'm considering buying new. But of course the price is quite challenging. If we purchase a new RV and sell it say 5 + years later we would lose about 50% value. But we would have actually "bought" the new LD for $50,000. Which seems worth it. Am I missing something because it looks like a really good idea. And it should be easy to sell no? I have to convince my husband it's better to buy new and have it as an "asset"'than buy another brand cheaper...
Re: Buying new? Reply #1 – March 04, 2018, 12:51:20 pm "But we would have actually "bought" the new LD for $50,000"And pro rated out over those 5 years you have a 'new' RV at a cost of only $10K per and you'll get at least that much pleasure from it. Cheep at twice the price! 1 Likes
Re: Buying new? Reply #2 – March 04, 2018, 01:17:56 pm Strictly from a financial point of view, after selling, you've basically rented a RV for $10,000 a year and have nothing to show for it after 5 years. Only you can place a value on your experiences.
Re: Buying new? Reply #3 – March 04, 2018, 01:20:55 pm The appliances in a LD are the same as any other RV, are generally not as high quality as good home appliances, and of course they get bounced around a lot while driving down the road. Looking at costs down the road is more difficult than with an auto, where other than maintenance, fuel, registration and insurance, you can consider initial-minus-final cost as your cost of ownership. Minor accidents are much more common with RVs, as are other maintenance issues. That said, cost of ownership of a LD will likely be lower than other RVs, and owner satisfaction higher.Steve
Re: Buying new? Reply #4 – March 04, 2018, 01:24:02 pm Depends on your financial position and how much of a dent the depreciation will put in your net worth. Also, on how much pleasure you will get out of the machine. Factor those two things into the equation. Personally, I ordered new and didn't give a thought a used one. Frank 2 Likes
Re: Buying new? Reply #5 – March 04, 2018, 01:42:43 pm "it's better tobuy new and have it as an "asset"'than buy another brand cheaper..."The key point here is "another brand cheaper" . . . ;-> Over 32 years of RV'ing and 2 VW's (one purchased new), one Sportsmobile (still have it), two Lazy Daze (still have one), and a 40-foot high end DP . . . our average cost per year, considering the value of our two currently-owned units (1998 Sportsmobile campervan and 2005 Lazy Daze RB), our cost per year of ownership averages out to $4,000.. For many of those years, we did not own any real property, and relied on campground accommodations to serve as our living abode.I was happy with those figures, but personal needs, experiences, and fiscal capabilities all play a part in this type of decision. Virtual hugs, Judie <-- Sierra Vista, Arizona Adventures of Dorrie Anne | Photographing the West Today: Snap Pea Treat ***************************** 4 Likes
Re: Buying new? Reply #6 – March 04, 2018, 01:58:35 pm I know my husband will only want something high quality as far as construction. He doesn't care about finishes and bling. So basically that describes Lazy Daze.He would also rather not buy someone else's headache/ problems. If the owner even discloses all the issues. With all that being said, I would definitely consider a used LD. But they seem so hard to find. Is that true? I never see any for sale except the West Coast.Financials: We are young-ish but "retiring" in a couple of years. We will rent our house to our 20-something boys. We hope to split the year - half in Europe in our house and the rest in the US. The cost of a new LD would be a huge financial hit for me, but I can continue p/t working from "home". He has a pension and an annuity and we have our house paid off.
Re: Buying new? Reply #7 – March 04, 2018, 02:31:19 pm Hello Maryanna. My point of view might be a little bit different than some others. The first year Margee and I retired, we took a long trip in our truck. We stayed at medium priced motels/hotels and ate our meals in average priced places. As I remember it, the trip was about 3 weeks and cost us between $4,000 to $5,000. After that, we made several additional bucket-list trips and each cost about that much or more.About 2 1/2 years ago, we purchased our 2009 Lazy Daze and have taken many trips from 3 days to six (6) weeks. When we travel in our LD, we eat most of our meals at home (in the LD). Our campground fees are usually $25 a night or less because we generally stay at State Parks, Federal Parks and COE parks. The six (6) weeks trips cost us less than half of those early trips in our truck and we lived better and had immeasurably more fun. Another example. A trip to a Texas State Park for three (3) nights with our grand-daughter cost us $60-$75 plus gas for the LD.We understand that the true cost of RV ownership includes other routine expenses like maintenance, insurance, etc. However, Margee and I do most of our routine maintenance and preventive maintenance. Some RV owners are able to store their rig on their property, which is a great savings for them. We consider these routine costs the price we must pay to play ... like a golf club or tennis club membership.So my point is a new Lazy Daze owner will certainly see loss of value due to depreciation, which slows down after the first year of ownership. However, we believe the hit to the family's bottom line is off-set somewhat by the reduced cost of RV travel as Margee and I have experienced and described above. Hope this helps. And please excuse any typing or grammatical errors. 3 Likes
Re: Buying new? Reply #8 – March 04, 2018, 02:37:14 pm An RV, even a Lazy Daze, is not an 'asset' in the sense that it does not appreciate in value; any 'asset' value comes from the enjoyment of the lifestyle the RV may provide. If an RV buyer doesn't have a clear understanding and acceptance of the fact that the initial purchase price is just the beginning, and/or expects to recoup any 'losses' or depreciation through an eventual sale, I suggest that s/he consider a 're-think'. Ongoing expenses for insurance, fuel, licensing, servicing/maintenance, repairs, replacements, upgrades, and associated costs of travel and/or storage and a host of other things are a huge part of the equation of RV ownership, the extent and duration of which are very often minimized, if realized at all, when one has stars in one's eyes about owning an RV (in the case of most of us, an LD).A new LD is expensive, it takes roughly a year to get one, and even though LDs are much better designed, engineered, and built than most of the junk that rolls off the lines from other manufacturers, they are still an RV; they still depreciate and they still require regular cash outlays for all of the 'little joys of ownership' listed in the previous paragraph. And, if one finances an RV, the ultimate cost can (and usually does) rise far above the initial purchase price; depending on the terms, length, and amount of a loan, it is not uncommon for an owner to find him/herself upside down before the loan term is up and with an RV that cannot be sold for the pay off amount.Everyone's financial circumstances are different, and each has to do the research and decide what works best for them. But, I would suggest gleaning as much information as possible on the total costs of RV ownership and taking a realistic, objective look at how the figures match one's financial circumstances and expectations of what RV ownership can bring to their lives.As ever, YMMV. 5 Likes
Re: Buying new? Reply #9 – March 04, 2018, 02:39:04 pm Quote from: maryanna - March 04, 2018, 01:58:35 pmWith all that being said, I would definitely consider a used LD. But they seem so hard to find. Is that true? I never see any for sale except the West Coast.Most LD owners seem to keep their RVs for longer periods of time than some other brands of RVs. In addition, LD does not produce nearly as many RVs as does Winnebago, Jayco, and other manufacturers. We have seldom seen a relatively newer Lazy Dazy (1-3 years old) for sale unless it was a result of illness or other serious changes in one's life. So the newer LD's are difficult to find and a high percentage reside west of the Mississippi and especially on the West Coast. So I'd say your assumptions and observations are correct. 1 Likes
Re: Buying new? Reply #10 – March 04, 2018, 02:58:08 pm After a VW campermobile, 78 Toyota PU w/ a cabover camper, and series of TT's we decided to look into a motorhome that would fit in our side yard. We sort of favored the LD until walking thru a 31 IB at Bandon OR, which clinched it. We dropped a deposit on a 2013 31 IB in October 3013. Just after we got back home, a 2012 almost identical to ours came on the local market for $25K less. Due to the near 'cult' attitude of LD owners, they tend to be well maintained. While there is a dramatic depreciation that you can almost hear as you drive away from the mothership, later drops are significantly less than a lot of the carp out there.We opted for new for a number of reasons. One of which was the difficulty of finding a used one. Another was that, being retired and expecting to travel for at least 10 years, it suited us well. Without a mortgage, the cost was not a problem. The actual cost was somewhat less than our house cost in 1985. It's good to ask the question. You'll get a variety of answers here.joel
Re: Buying new? Reply #11 – March 04, 2018, 05:12:59 pm “ We will rent our house to our 20-something boys.”We had three 20-something kids.Don’t spend that rent money until the check clears. 😂“Mom, I’m a little short of money this month. Would it be OK if I got caught up next month?”“Mom, things are slow at work right now. Would it be OK if I got caught up next month?”“Mom, ...?You get the idea.Ed 😉 4 Likes
Re: Buying new? Reply #12 – March 04, 2018, 07:39:36 pm What you are really doing is leasing the RV for 5 years at a cost of 50K; assuming the purchase price of 100K, then selling it for 50K five years later.Gary2007 30ft-TB 1 Likes
Re: Buying new? Reply #13 – March 05, 2018, 01:29:44 pm Some personal numbers that might interest you. Please keep in mind money is a relative value. Many of the factors I used when I brought my LD no longer apply in today's economy. Price of 2014 TK $90,185 - paid cash from refinanced home mortgage -- cheaper to pay variable interest based on 10 year Treasury Note on loan then taxes withdrawal of 401k. Today I'd have to rethink that under new Fed tax laws.Total interest so far $3,500 - was deductible of Fed and State taxes at 10 to 30 percent rate depending on total gross income. Total miles so far 36,486Total gas used so far $10,307 - cost ranges from $4.15 to $1.64 btw that's 3738 gallons.Total propane so far $202 - cost from $3.49 to $1.92 - 81 gallonsTotal Camping Fees $4595 - cost from free per night to $50 - 220 daysTotal RV Insurance $1959 - cost based on location -- Portland, Or.Total RV State Registration $547 - Oregon have a two year registration based on length of RV. What is not included in oil changes and this and that we have added to customized Baxter to our needs. I think a round about number of 3 to 4 thousand would be in the ball park. So I'm thinking total cost to toady is about $67,000 out of pocket as of today. That's about $16,750 a year. Bottom line is the LD an investment - no. Is the LD a lifestyle we enjoy and am willing to pay the price - yes. Each person needs to answer that question from themselves. Bottom line this lifestyle is not cheap but I don't think any other is either. 2 Likes
Re: Buying new? Reply #14 – March 05, 2018, 02:49:43 pm THANK YOU all - for your comments and sharing your financial details.I hadn't considered that if it depreciates it's not an Asset.And the fact that cashing out my IRA's would of course trigger a huge tax bill.We would not refinance the house - we are too happy to have it paid off!And yes we would probably end up helping the kids pay, especially if a major repair was needed.We just didn't want to have to say "Mom and Dad are retiring, so get out." lol.So what I'm hearing is - yes, you might end up having to buy "new" since good used LDs are scarce.But it's worth it if you use it and can afford the yearly expenses.And in Joel's situation, if we did put down a deposit on a new LD and a great used one showed up,could we forfeit the deposit or is that a terribly bad faith move, since they're custom made...Maryanna 1 Likes
Re: Buying new? Reply #15 – March 05, 2018, 03:29:29 pm Quote from: maryanna - March 05, 2018, 02:49:43 pmAnd in Joel's situation, if we did put down a deposit on a new LD and a great used one showed up,could we forfeit the deposit or is that a terribly bad faith move, since they're custom made...Maryanna, I don't think you would have any problem from Lazy Daze if you had to forfeit the deposit. They would have no problem selling "your" rig. You, of course, would lose several thousand dollars! 1 Likes
Re: Buying new? Reply #16 – March 05, 2018, 05:38:07 pm Maryana, It's great that you are thinking through all the possible angles before buying, and you've received some good advice. We bought a new 2017 27' MB last June after a 10-month wait. We had both just retired and the LD was part of a total "plan" on our part to find a way to 1. spend winters in Florida, 2. visit relatives in North Carolina, Cape Cod, Detroit area, the Twin Cities and Phoenix in the summer and 3. spend time exploring places in the US and Canada we haven't seen before. How to do all that? Sell off everything we couldn't fit in a "tiny" home in Florida and buy the LD. The money we saved buying the "tiny" home helped pay for the LD and last year we traveled 9,000 miles doing 2 & 3 above. We saw all our relatives between June and October last year and camped in some great State and National Parks. We've had a great winter, and I've already booked our trip for 2018. Starting in May, we'll hit the Blue Ridge Mts. in North Carolina (for a family wedding), New York City (staying in Liberty Harbor RV Resort in Jersey City across the river), Cape Cod, Cooperstown, Detroit, the Twin Cities, the Badlands, Devils Tower in the Black Hills, Thermopolis, WY, Fishing Bridge at Yellowstone, Coulter Bay at Grand Tetons, Zion, Bryce Canyon, Moab, Mesa Verde, Albuquerque, Phoenix and then who knows where on the way back to Florida. When we add everything up, we are not spending any more annually than we were when we were living in a big house in Twin Cities and we're having a lot more fun in our amazing 2017 27' MB LD. 8 Likes
Re: Buying new? Reply #17 – March 05, 2018, 06:44:21 pm You can lower the cost of ownership by keeping it for a long time.Why buy the best built Class C and then sell it after only five years, when it's barely broken in?People full-time in LD s for many years, without having them fall apart.The E450 chassis is proven design with the very dependable V10 engine.We bought our LD new 15 year ago, now it has 107,000 and is in good shape for a rig that has been stored outside.Money has been spent maintaining it through the years, that's part of the lifestyle.If you are will to properly maintain the exterior sealant and perform the periodic maintenance, it should last very long time.If you really do plan on selling in five years, you might be better off buying a lower priced RV. You wouldn't have to wait for many months to buy something either. With the low production of LDs, people have waited 18 months for delivery. It depends on when you order and what chassis (short or long) is needed, how many are available from Ford and how far ahead they are pre-ordered. At times, LD has a waiting list to get one the order list.If I was buying used SOB (some other brand), I would look for a two or three years old model, one that has had enough time to get the faults corrected.I would've have hard time buying any Class C new, besides a LD. The number of available E450 can vary from year to year, depending on how many U-Haul orders.According to a two different Ford reps, at RV and auto shows, U-Haul is their major buyer.Makes sense, the E450 is a workhorse that is hard to kill.Larry 2 Likes
Re: Buying new? Reply #18 – March 06, 2018, 10:20:37 am Hi Maryanna. A number of LD owners from the North East LD group and some of the South East LD owners will be having a gathering at the Historic Triangle area of Virginia next month. If you have any questions about floor plans or any other LD questions, consider stopping by and spending some time with us. Details can be found on the North East LD Club site on Yahoo. You will need to join the group to ask questions on-line, or check out the group and plans without joining. Good luck with your plans. 1 Likes
Re: Buying new?'s Reply #19 – March 06, 2018, 02:30:20 pm Hi, This winter for entertainment my spouse and I have gone to a couple of RV Shows. We walked through lots of new RV's. We did not find anything at all that came near to the quality of our LD. We did buy ours used. We got extremely lucky when we found ours for sale at Nexus RV in Indiana in February of 2015. Someone had traded it in on a new model. It needed some TLC but since we have a background in construction and re-habing houses this was not outside our expertise. I wouldn't change that decision. Cost is all relative. We love our Sand Castle. It is not going to go up in value, but knowing that when I go to bed at night I am sleeping on my own sheets (no bed bugs please) and that I can cook what ever I want is priceless. Be patient in your search for a used LD on the east coast, it is worth it. tlbh2o 2 Likes
Re: Buying new? Reply #20 – March 06, 2018, 04:06:24 pm "We got extremely lucky when we found ours for sale at Nexus RV in Indiana in February of 2015. Someone had traded it in on a new model."----Sounds like you bought Doug and Janet Baker's rig! They bought a Nexus; as I recall, it had some problems, but I don't remember the specifics. Janet passed away about a year ago; I don't know if Doug is still RVing.
Re: Buying new? Reply #21 – March 06, 2018, 06:57:01 pm Quote from: JCT - March 06, 2018, 04:06:24 pm Sounds like you bought Doug and Janet Baker's rig! They bought a Nexus; as I recall, it had some problems, but I don't remember the specifics. Janet passed away about a year ago; I don't know if Doug is still RVing.In fact, there was even a YouTube video about that LD presented by Nexus RV. I've watched it a couple of times. It may have been taken down by now. 1 Likes
Re: Buying new? Reply #22 – March 07, 2018, 01:12:56 am It Takes a village...Quote"We got extremely lucky when we found ours for sale at Nexus RV in Indiana in February of 2015. Someone had traded it in on a new model."----Sounds like you bought Doug and Janet Baker's rig! Our 2013 31 IB has an invoice # 8830when we moved to our current home in 1985 there were 6600 people. It keeps giving me pause to stop and realize that the Lazydaze owners community is a distributed village, geographically separated, but joined by a common interest in quality.Glad I'm here.<insert appropriate emoticon> 3 Likes
Re: Buying new? Reply #23 – March 07, 2018, 09:31:32 am We saw that video and took a day off work to go see it asap. It needed a new generator door.(Available from the mothership) They had converted 1 rear sofa into a desk but had kept all the original parts. We have restored it to original use. A good cleaning and replaced the carpet with vinyl and we were on the road. I believe the fridge has been replaced at some point but I am not sure. The previous owner kept great records. We haven't added much else, a good bike rack and we gave it some fresh paint on the lower section. Counting the months until retirement. tlbh2o 1 Likes
Re: Buying new? Reply #24 – March 07, 2018, 02:41:01 pm Yes - I will join the Northeast Lazy Daze club, thank you for the suggestion.I almost bought a camper ( as we called it back then) when I was single & went with my mom to the Rockland County RV show. The "low monthly payment" stickers caught our eye and we liked the small c-class models. I would be able to park it in the lot at her retirement village. This has always been my dream.Life happened, I got married, had kids, and bought a house in an incredibly short period of time. My husband is extremely practical, with a huge "work and save" mentality. Of course we have always managed to enjoy ourselves along the way. But to convince him of such a splurge is going to be tough.My plan: (a cunning plan, lol)Rent an RV in the next few months for our anniversary weekend getaway. Cruise America is close by and affordable. He will get to see poor construction up close, and we can decide if this lifestyle is even for us.Save like a mad woman for the next four years. I'm still working full time, and if I decrease my discretionary spending I can probably sock away 10k a year. In a separate account. Cashing out my retirement account is rather foolish I'm seeing.Go the the next RV show which is in February to see the other companies, so that when we see the LD he will be able to compare quality construction.Keep an eye out for nearby sellers, hopefully less than 10 yrs old model? At that point I will have cash on hand.Final stage, make the push for the new factory model, But it's so expensive. And then "ta da"! look, money I've been saving!See not so expensive after all... 1 Likes
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