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Topic: Steering Improvements - Alignment (Read 737 times) previous topic - next topic
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Steering Improvements - Alignment
Not mechanically inclined and the many threads I have read here and in irv2 (for non LD) are confusing. My question: in order of priority what are the possible improvements to be made to make a 2006 26.5 foot LD drive straight and not require constant minor course corrections? Or is that just the nature of the vehicle given its size and weight? Disclosure: I am used to only driving cars so may have unrealistic expectations. I have read recommendations to change sway bars, coil springs, shock absorbers etc. I don’t want to change anything if the trade off is a harsh ride.

Thanks.

Ted
2006 RB
Re: Improvements to steering?
Reply #1 –
You could once get a set of Ford shocks from the mothership for $40 plus shipping to replace the worn ones, and replacing the sway bar bushings with a polyurethane set will improve handling over new. However, twin I-beam suspension does NOT drive like a car.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: Improvements to steering?
Reply #2 –
Ted how many miles does your LD have? How are the tires? I only ask because my 2002 with over 120,000 wandered a little bit when I got it. I thought for sure it needed some kind of work done to the front end. Before I had a chance to get it into the shop to get checked I had a tire blowout. After changing out all the tires ( which looked good) but were past the 5 year age recommendation. The rig drives great with no wandering anymore.
Lynn and Lori
Re: Improvements to steering?
Reply #3 –
I was just saying to my husband today that if we keep our LD, I would add a steering stabilizer system.  It's just a Ford after all.  There is nothing special about the LD portion of it regarding what you are talking about.  Try looking up steering stabilizers on google and see what you think.  I know what you mean by the steering wandering.  I drive the RV most of the time and constant tiny corrections of the steering make the drive tedious.  s/Terry
Terry Apple
2013 RB 27 Baby Blue Bentley
Re: Improvements to steering?
Reply #4 –
The amount of electrons expended on this topic shows how many people seek better handling in their Class C. The Lazy Daze has an advantage over most because it is designed with proper handling in mind- low, well distributed weight.

The E350 E450 cab/chassis have a tendency to wander under motor homes. They are loaded up to near maximum and are big sails subject to side winds.

Improvements I am familiar with range from inexpensive to costly:
1) Load the coach as far below GVWR as possible, distributing weight evenly to the front, rear, sides, and as low as possible
Weigh all four corners to check this.

2) Ensure tires are in good shape, and consult tire manufacturers' inflation tables. Getting the right tire inflation did more to improve my LD handling than anything else I did.

3) Have a reputable frame shop check alignment and steering gear. Ours was able to be tightened up a little.

4) If you don't already have them, install Koni or Bilstien shocks, they make a noticeable difference.

5) I found new bushings on the sway bars, and new, bigger sway bars to be helpful, but this is where I began to notice diminishing returns on the expenditures.

6) The SafeTPlus steering control I had installed did what it is supposed to, made steering return to center and reduced the loose feel, but if I did it over, I would skip this one, as by now things were quite manageable.

The next step, a panhard rod type device on the rear axle, is supposed to improve tail wagging, but I don't notice this behavior at all.

Finally, before moving past step 3 or 4, drive a few thousand miles, and stay off the road when sidewinds are wailing. Nothing works to prevent the sail action of a big, flat truck or RV.  You will get used to the handling, and be more well informed to proceed laying out serious cash.

Just my thoughts, good luck!
Paul
'92 Mid Bath
Re: Improvements to steering?
Reply #5 –
I agree with the thoughts re. weight distribution, improved shocks, wheel alignment and tire pressure, but moderate expectations as this is a Ford E chassis with a heavy, high load.
Re: Improvements to steering?
Reply #6 –
Before spending any additional money, have the front end checked out and aligned.It can make a huge difference.
Alignment was just discussed last week, with the recommendation to increase the caster 2 degree over the Factory recommendation, to increase its tracking..
Alignment
The Twin-I-Beam suspension is sensitive to its alignment and the condition of its various steering and suspension components.
Everything needs to be tight and in good shape if good handling and steering is wanted.

IMHO, the E450's suspension is fine the way it comes from the Factory, if it feels like it isn't stable or doesn't steer right, something is probably  is worn or out of adjustment. It shouldn't need add-on stabilizers or aftermarket sway bars to feel secure,
Ford didn't design this chassis to be a sport's car.
it's a moving van, get use to it.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Improvements to steering?
Reply #7 –
Thanks all. My LD has 37,000 miles, new tires in the last year, with now a few thousand miles on them, and had an alignment done then. It does not feel jittery or unsafe, and it tracks straight. Weight distribution should not be an issue as I don’t carry much. Tire pressures are 60 front and 70 rear.
2006 RB
Re: Improvements to steering?
Reply #8 –
Quote from: Larry W  - 
IMHO, the E450's suspension is fine the way it comes from the Factory, if it feels like it isn't stable or doesn't steer right, something is probably is worn or out of adjustment. It shouldn't need add-on stabilizers or aftermarket sway bars to feel secure,
Larry

Amen
104,000 miles and never had to constantly correct steering.
Would never modify the steering gear.
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: Improvements to steering?
Reply #9 –
People are putting on Sumo's on all four corners of their Class A Ford Chassis.  Has anyone done this to their E450.  We are very pleased with the way our 2017 E450 handles from Ford without any changes.



Ross Taylor
2017 MB
Re: Improvements to steering?
Reply #11 –
"People are putting on Sumo's on all four corners of their Class A Ford Chassis."
----
This statement brings up a very interesting mental picture!  ;)  
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Improvements to steering?
Reply #12 –
Larry and Paul nailed this.  I wish only to address my personal opinion as to steering stabilizers such as Steer Safe and Safe-T-Steer.  These use a shock absorber and/or springs to pull on the steering mechanism.  Think about it - they reduce the ability of the steering wheel to move the tire alignment.  More steering force is needed with them.  In return, they reduce the effect of road surfaces to move the tires and the steering wheel.

My opinion is that, if your vehicle is set up properly (alignment, loading, tire pressure, shocks, bushings, etc) there should not be significant pulling or instability.  If such exists, something is wrong and needs to be fixed, not hidden.  More importantly, I do not want a mechanism that will reduce my ease of response to a need for an appropriate steering input, nor do I want a device that can drift out of adjustment and exert a pull on the steering system.

Again, that is my opinion only.  I acknowledge that some here have, and love, these devices.

Ken F in NM
'08 MB
Re: Improvements to steering?
Reply #13 –
Ted, thanks for the added information, gives a better picture. If your “wander” is like mine, a small steering box adjustment by The alignment shop, in my case Henderson’s Lineup, helped a lot.

The other thing that has helped me is getting used to it, learning to relax at the wheel, and reducing the amount of wheel corrections.  I know, this sounds crazy, and I’m not suggesting letting the rig wander all over the road. Just a relaxed grip. The characteristics of the big truck handling are indeed quite different from a car or even pickup truck. 
Paul
'92 Mid Bath
Re: Improvements to steering?
Reply #14 –
Quote from: Kenneth Fears  - 
I wish only to address my personal opinion as to steering stabilizers such as Steer Safe and Safe-T-Steer.  These use a shock absorber and/or springs to pull on the steering mechanism.  Think about it - they reduce the ability of the steering wheel to move the tire alignment.  More steering force is needed with them.  In return, they reduce the effect of road surfaces to move the tires and the steering wheel.

Both the Steer Safe and Safe-T-Steer are self centering devices for the steering.
Each one has its own issues.
The Safe-T-Steer's attachment to the drag link can and do slip, when it does, it causes the steering to pull to one side, exactly the opposite of what it is supposed to do.
The Steer Safe uses four large heavy springs that force the steering back to center. It works until a spring breaks, which will cause hard pulling to one side.  Springs break when they become rusted.
Neither of the above examples is rare, I have removed a few broken Steer Safes and have readjust many Safe-T-Steers.
I wouldn't own either. Why bolt on another potential source of trouble?
The only steering stabilizer I use is the stock stabilizer, as installed by Ford.
It's all that is needed if the steering and suspension are in good shape and properly aligned.
Anything else is a band-aid.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Improvements to steering?
Reply #15 –
Great topic.  Thank you all for loads of information on this subject.  First thing I am going to do is have the steering checked now that some of you say that might be an issue.  I have the truck gone over very often, but not specifically for that.  s/Terry
Terry Apple
2013 RB 27 Baby Blue Bentley
Re: Improvements to steering?
Reply #16 –
Steer Safe and Safe-T-Plus; AFAIK, there's no such creature as 'Safety Steer'.  ;)
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Improvements to steering?
Reply #17 –
Joan, I stand corrected.  I pulled the name up from memory and that is getting shakier... 

Ken F in NM
'08 MB
Re: Improvements to steering?
Reply #18 –
Oh, you, too? 🤗 I ran out of RAM a long time ago!
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Improvements to steering?
Reply #19 –
Thanks again for all the helpful info. What about adding thicker sway bars or stiffer shocks? Would one or both help?
2006 RB
Re: Improvements to steering?
Reply #20 –
Beefier swaybars help to reduce that top of coach oscillating sway you get when leaving a driveway. With the heavier bars we get a much stiffer feel, and if I go out of a drive over the curb it is very harsh, swing to the left, swing to the...that’s it. This is not always good in an RV, as the contents of upper cabinets gets treated more roughly than when it was a gentle sway left, sway right, sway left, come back to center.  New polyurethane bushings would be a cheaper and effective compromise.

Stiffer shocks? I would not do that on my own, for the same reason. Shocks are dampers, not meant to prevent up and down travel. The Bilsteins and Konis are not that much stiffer, they have better damping and last longer. Worthwhile upgrades when they need to be replaced.

Paul
'92 Mid Bath
Re: Improvements to steering?
Reply #21 –
Quote from: Cebuano54  - 
Thanks again for all the helpful info. What about adding thicker sway bars or stiffer shocks? Would one or both help?
Sway bars reduces the amount of leaning or sway during cornering.
They also reduce the ability of each wheel to respond independently to the the the road surface, causing a harsher ride.
You only want a sway bar big enough to provide decent handling and excessive sway.
Anything more degrades the ride quality, a consideration on today's poor roads.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Improvements to steering?
Reply #22 –
Does anyone know if the Helwig sway bars are simple bolt on replacement on a 2006 LD for front and rear, or are there other things to be done to install it?

Thanks.
2006 RB
Re: Improvements to steering?
Reply #23 –
Quote from: Cebuano54  - 
Does anyone know if the Helwig sway bars are simple bolt on replacement on a 2006 LD for front and rear, or are there other things to be done to install it?

They are a direct replacement for our '09.  The Hellwig CS is great and they could answer your question for your year.
Re: Improvements to steering?
Reply #24 –
Ted

Has the front end been aligned?
If the alignment is off, it will not steer right and may have the tendency to wander.
There was a recent thread pertaining to this.
Alignment

It is recommended to increase the caster, above Factory specs, into the 5+ degree range, for better tracking and less wandering.
WHEEL ALIGNMENT INSTRUCTIONS FOR RV
Our LD is set to 1/8" toe-in, 1/2 degree negative camber and 6.5 degrees of caster.
It tracks fine with no noticeable wandering or unusual tire wear.

I use this alignment tool, along with a set of toe-in plates, to check and set the alignment on all our vehicles.
http://www.spcalignment.com/component/spc/?task=part_description&pid=91000
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/281404682114-0-1/s-l1000.jpg

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze