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Topic: Strange Post on iRV2.com about Lazy Daze (Read 1352 times) previous topic - next topic
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Strange Post on iRV2.com about Lazy Daze
A very strange post on the iRV2.com Forum.

Link:  Lazy Daze - end of an era. - iRV2 Forums

The post:  "Some sad news! The highest rated RV companies are losing the battle with the mass manufacturers like Winnwbago, Fleetwood, Jayco, etc. Following in the footsteps of Born Free, the family owned, iconic brand Lazy Daze appears to making its last motorhomes.

Founded in '56, the company has maintained an old school approach to doing business. They have a hardcore following for many reasons, but the unique aluminum skin and high quality workmanship are ones that stand above the rest. Owners retain theirs for years, and often upgrade to a newer model when the time comes.

Lazy Daze has always maintained a limited production of their RVs, made to order. The demand for these motorhomes is already high, and it's about to get higher as the existing ones get snapped up as classics of their era."

Got to seriously wonder why someone would post that kind of information especially considering the above post is their first post of any kind on the iRV2 forum.  Smells like a troll.
Re: Strange Post on iRV2.com about Lazy Daze
Reply #1 –
The LD closing its doors post was that poster's first on the irv2 forum; it's not uncommon for 'one shot wonders' to throw out a post as a troll, just to stir the pot.

'Alternate facts' abound; if people want to know if this rumor has any basis, I suggest calling the factory and finding out. And, if someone does call LD, one might also want to advise them of the existence of that 'news'!

2003 TK has a new home
Re: Strange Post on iRV2.com about Lazy Daze
Reply #2 –
Quote from: JCT  - 
'Alternate facts' abound; if people want to know if this rumor has any basis, I suggest calling the factory and finding out. And, if someone does call LD, one might also want to advise them of the existence of that 'news'!

I certainly think that's a fine idea.  I hope someone on the LDO Forum who has some standing with the Factory leadership can make this call and advise them of this nasty rumor.
Re: Strange Post on iRV2.com about Lazy Daze
Reply #3 –
I have no standing whatsoever with LD, but I called them; as suspected, the post on irv2 is a BS troll. Vickie said, "We're still here, hammering away and producing the '18s".  I told her where to find the post; she said they would check the site. So, unless there's something lurking under the radar that the office people at LD are apparently not aware of, they're alive and well in Montclair.
 
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Strange Post on iRV2.com about Lazy Daze
Reply #4 –
I see the original poster has been back on the site after posting the thread. But failed to answer the sorce question.
Lynn and Lori
Re: Strange Post on iRV2.com about Lazy Daze
Reply #5 –
Quote from: Duro  - 
I see the original poster has been back on the site after posting the thread. But failed to answer the sorce question.

Disgruntled Born Free owner?
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: Strange Post on iRV2.com about Lazy Daze
Reply #7 –
Particularly if/since this was the poster's first note, perhaps he was just confused by which RV company was ceasing production.  Stranger things have happened.

   Virtual hugs,

   Judie  <-- Sierra Vista, Arizona
   Adventures of Dorrie Anne | Photographing the West

   Today:  Road Trip !!!
   ************************************
Re: Strange Post on iRV2.com about Lazy Daze
Reply #8 –
Final Note:  Please note that I contacted the Admin for iRV2 and advised them of this post and suggested it was malicious.  The Admin removed the post. 
Re: Strange Post on iRV2.com about Lazy Daze
Reply #10 –
Quote from: JCT  - 
I have no standing whatsoever with LD, but I called them; as suspected, the post on irv2 is a BS troll. Vickie said, "We're still here, hammering away and producing the '18s".  I told her where to find the post; she said they would check the site. So, unless there's something lurking under the radar that the office people at LD are apparently not aware of, they're alive and well in Montclair.

Dear Joan,

If you have time tomorrow, could you call the LD Office once again and advise them that post was removed by the iRV Forum Administration?  It might take one small piece of frustration off their "plate."
Re: Strange Post on iRV2.com about Lazy Daze
Reply #11 –
There was a recent email from RV Consumer Group talking about Born Free disappearing that mentioned Lazy Daze (as still going strong) which may have confused the poster.
2003 23.5' Front Dinette
Re: Strange Post on iRV2.com about Lazy Daze
Reply #12 –
What constantly astounds me is the market niche LD occupies could easily be filled/complemented by another manufacturer. The failure of Born Free wasn't competition from mass market providers like Thor, but a complete whiff & miss on what this segment of the market demands & desires.

That is, LD's claims to fame are not only its workmanship - which BF provided as well - but its huge (oversized) windows and carefully thought out floor plans. I mean, really, talk about a "duh" moment. But, for whatever reason, BF decided to insist on making small windowed, internal palaces. Result: BK and too bad, so sad.

I sort of can't believe someone, somewhere, with any knowledge of this market, hasn't opened a LD knock-off in a lower-cost mfg state like TX, TN, or wherever. Hint to anyone thinking of building a facility stateside: follow the Japanese & Euro auto companies. They did all the research on the best locations years ago.

With the new Transit chassis and similar van offerings from other suppliers, it would be literally trivial to pump out updated 20' models similar to what LD was producing 30 years ago. All the piece parts already exist: there's an entire niche market of suppliers of integrated shower/toilet units for class B RVs. Reefers, microwaves, stove/oven, electrical systems, etc -> all the supplier components already exist.

All anyone would have to do is sit down, layout the floorplan, use wood/composite for the frame, and make sure the structure was stable & robust enough to support a series of large glass windows. Because this is so obvious and straightforward, I've got to assume someone is already working on it. Where are the former BF engineers & mfg experts? Off to work @ Thor, or working on the next gen RV that responds to this market segment?
Re: Strange Post on iRV2.com about Lazy Daze
Reply #13 –
"The failure of Born Free wasn't competition from mass market providers like Thor, but a complete whiff & miss on what this segment of the market demands & desires."
----
As far as I'm aware, Born Free had an active and enthusiastic owner base, a viable dealer network, service appointments scheduled, and quite a few coaches on order and in various stages of fabrication. Again, as far as I'm aware, BF was serving its particular niche.

The company was sold to an investment group after John Dodgen's death in 2015; I have no idea of the terms of the buy, but it seems likely that the new ownership decided that pumping additional cash into the company was not in their interests and bailed. 

Small, family/one owner companies are particularly vulnerable to financial 'stresses', particularly if they overreach their production, distribution, and financing limitations. And, in my experience, even if it survives the transition, it's very rare for a small, niche-market company to continue to produce the same product quality after being sold to or absorbed by a larger manufacturer, conglomerate, or a management group; the ultimate interests of each are seldom the same.

I have no idea what will happen to Lazy Daze in the future, and, I suspect, speculation is an exercise in futility.

As ever, YMMV.
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Strange Post on iRV2.com about Lazy Daze
Reply #14 –
Quote from: JCT  - 

I have no idea what will happen to Lazy Daze in the future, and, I suspect, speculation is an exercise in futility.

As ever, YMMV.

I'm guessing Steve doesn't have anyone to leave the company to? 
Lynn and Lori
Re: Strange Post on iRV2.com about Lazy Daze
Reply #15 –
Apparently no one is waiting take over.   Plus, it would take a very special breed of cat to slide into Steve's spot and make it work.

Plus, as I have mentioned before, it would be very tempting for the heirs to simply cash in on the land and let the company go.  Finding a buyer with deep pockets, the desire, and skills to pick up the ball and run with it....  in another location...   a long shot
at best.
plan B - 2023 Travato
Re: Strange Post on iRV2.com about Lazy Daze
Reply #16 –
Quote from: kool83704  - 
Finding a buyer with deep pockets, the desire, and skills to pick up the ball and run with it....  in another location...   a long shot
at best.

Larry Wade, do you have room in your backyard?   :D
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: Strange Post on iRV2.com about Lazy Daze
Reply #17 –
I stopped by the OC Airstream dealer the other day - they are one (if not the) largest Airstream dealers in the country.

Even during mid-week, they were busy. Their key selling point, which I believe Andy can confirm, besides the clean, elegant lines, are the **large windows**. Why this seems to be a mystery to so many in the RV business is in itself a mystery.

Actually, my guess is this preference/demand is well known among industry professionals. However, it takes premium design, materials & craftsmanship to produce a quality RV with a lot of glass that can withstand road travel. Hence, the underlying costs are reflected in the price(s) - both LD and AS are priced well above other, comparable vehicles in similar size/amenities range. Since at least 90% of the RV business is driven by price/availability, the high quality sector will continue to be a niche.

As for as LD continuing for another generation, I agree the property will probably be sold. But that doesn't mean a LD knock-off cannot be re-created somewhere else. This is a ripe market niche - the number of browsers at the AS dealer makes that obvious.

I think the real opportunity, besides moving mfg to a lower mid-west border state (eg TN, SC, et al)  - along with all the auto companies - is to take advantage of new composite materials. If the same strength (and ease of forming/cutting) of wood could be achieved at a lower weight/cost while supporting large(r) picture windows, then Katy bar the door.
Re: Strange Post on iRV2.com about Lazy Daze
Reply #18 –
Quote from: snerf  - 
I stopped by the OC Airstream dealer the other day - they are one (if not the) largest Airstream dealers in the country.

Even during mid-week, they were busy. Their key selling point, which I believe Andy can confirm, besides the clean, elegant lines, are the **large windows**. Why this seems to be a mystery to so many in the RV business is in itself a mystery.

Actually, my guess is this preference/demand is well known among industry professionals. However, it takes premium design, materials & craftsmanship to produce a quality RV with a lot of glass that can withstand road travel. Hence, the underlying costs are reflected in the price(s) - both LD and AS are priced well above other, comparable vehicles in similar size/amenities range. Since at least 90% of the RV business is driven by price/availability, the high quality sector will continue to be a niche.

As for as LD continuing for another generation, I agree the property will probably be sold. But that doesn't mean a LD knock-off cannot be re-created somewhere else. This is a ripe market niche - the number of browsers at the AS dealer makes that obvious.

I think the real opportunity, besides moving mfg to a lower mid-west border state (eg TN, SC, et al)  - along with all the auto companies - is to take advantage of new composite materials. If the same strength (and ease of forming/cutting) of wood could be achieved at a lower weight/cost while supporting large(r) picture windows, then Katy bar the door.
"both LD and AS are priced well above other, comparable vehicles in similar size/amenities range"

Are you sure about this statement? Considering most of the major accessories are standard on the LD, I am of the opinion that it's still the cheaper choice, apples to apples.

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: Strange Post on iRV2.com about Lazy Daze
Reply #19 –
Confusing the speculation:
Assuming there is no one in the Lazy Daze family, here or at the Mothership who will buy the company,  and accounting for Steve's stated reluctance to re-engineer the LD coach for a new platform, I would expect operations as they are today to cease as either Steve sells off or Ford stops making the E350, which would trigger the former. 

In either case, I look for a buyer to purchase the intellectual properties and continue to try to capitalize on the LD reputation.  Whether that is an owner who perpetuates the devotion to quality we are used to, we shall see.  Bigfoot seems to have come through well, after a bit of a rough re-start. Great West Van's seems to have suffered more, if they are still viable.  Venerable Airstream has survived and prospered with the Thor buy out, although enduring some very tough times.  It is debatable whether the original quality is still there, but the marketing of the legacy has more than made up for that in sales.

It's an interesting topic for speculation. Considering how hot the RV market is, it seems like ongoing  success is a matter of making obvious choices. What could possibly go wrong?  Take an F450, build a coach with big windows and aluminum skin, make it nimble, and voila! Or, take a Transit chassis, add a coach with big windows and an aluminum skin, make it weigh 1000# below the transit GVWR, voila! A small fortune to be made, assuming one starts with a large fortune!

After nearly 60 years of surviving without a dollar in debt and an acclaimed reputation for quality, a continual backlog of orders, and loyal customers, I can't think of a better business model for an RV manufacturer .

Just some afternoon musings.
Paul
'92 Mid Bath
Re: Strange Post on iRV2.com about Lazy Daze
Reply #20 –
Chris, I think that statement is kinda true. When were were looking two years ago, I could buy a new Leprechaun on a 450 chassis, for under $70K. It had more fancy stuff than the LD, which was in the range of $85K. Of course the SOB oozed cheapness from every crack and crevice, and serenaded us with a cacophony of cheapness on the road.

That said, the AS price differential with the market is what, about double? The LD differential seems to me to be about +20%. So your point is on point.

Just seems Airstream has taken premium branding to a place where an iPhone would be about $1700 vs a Samsung for $800. Magical.

Paul
'92 Mid Bath
Re: Strange Post on iRV2.com about Lazy Daze
Reply #21 –
The problem with any potential sale of LD is there isn't any there, there (h/t Gertrude Stein). Other than the brand name (and reputation for quality) itself, there isn't any unique mfg process, design element, tooling, methods, components or particular insight as to how RVs are crafted that LD brings to the table. IOW, the value of its intellectual property is a big, fat -0-.

I'm not trying to trivialize the coach build, but it really isn't that complicated. Any housing contractor worth his salt would immediately recognize the similarities and processes. By way of example, there's a guy where I store my LD in Costa Mesa who bought an old Dodge sportsman. He then tore off the entire coach and rebuilt the entire wooden structure literally from the frame up. Heck, he might have worked at LD - I took at look at his work the other day,  and it's quite obvious he knows what he's doing. It really is a nice build. He hadn't finished the exterior skinning or interior paneling, but the wiring was all top-notch professionally done. Whether he ultimately decides to use alum or fiber paneling is 'immaterial'; the key is that a professional build isn't difficult.

What is difficult is replicating that model on an assembly line at a level of efficiency where the price of the finished product is competitive within its respective class. But even that isn't too hard if you have any experience with mfg processes. That why, if/when someone decides to bring out a LD replica on the Transit chassis, it will be done in a mfg friendly state where the Japanese & Euro auto companies are now located. With the wealth of talent located in those regions, it would be easy to find a core group of people who know what the heck they are doing.

Now, add to the equation composite materials, and the game begins to get real interesting. Imagine having all those pieces formed beforehand - probably outsourced - instead of individually cutting 2x3? Up goes the frame, professional engineers, electricians and plumbers (water & gas) lay out the specs for the wiring/piping. Every single specialty component is sourced from a dedicated supplier (reefer, toilet, elec box, etc).  Last are the interior appointments, which can be designed & outsourced anywhere, off to the paint shop (without all the Calif air restrictions) to get the same quality marine finish*, and presto, the RV is ready.

*All the really high end sports fishing boats are made in Florida & the Carolinas. They, of all people, know how to apply a very heavy duty, yet beautiful, marine grade finish: SeaVee Boats - High Performance Sport Fishing Boats



Re: Strange Post on iRV2.com about Lazy Daze
Reply #22 –
"[Airstream's] key selling point, which I believe Andy can confirm, besides the clean, elegant lines, are the large windows."

I can't speak for other Airstream owners, but that's certainly true for me. The big windows were a key feature of the LD, as far as I was concerned. And until I walked into this Airstream International 27 FB, I had never seen a coach with more window area than a Lazy Daze. Right now I'm sitting by a mountain stream with multiple large windows open on both sides, plus huge ones open on both ends of the rig, shaded by awnings on three sides. The breeze blowing through is heavenly.

"Considering most of the major accessories are standard on the LD, I am of the opinion that it's still the cheaper choice, apples to apples."

Compared to a high-quality coach such as a Born Free or Coach House Platinum, a comparably equipped Lazy Daze is significantly less expensive. But as Paul pointed out, the market is flooded with cheap crap from Thor and Fleetwood--cheap in both senses of the word. If a naive RV shopper is just looking at a feature list and a bottom-line price tag, an LD looks expensive compared to, say, a Tioga.

I haven't compared Airstream pricing to other trailer brands, but I wouldn't be surprised if they too were a lot more expensive than the mass-market stuff. As I've said before, Airstream does use higher-quality materials compared to many RV brands (including LD), although their workmanship is less than stellar. You could perhaps justify a somewhat higher price based on the materials. (My Airstream's bathroom faucet, for example, is a $300+ item, and the kitchen faucet cost even more.)

But I suspect much of the appeal of Airstreams, aside from their carefully cultivated "own a timeless classic" mystique, is that they offer what no other RV maker I know of has: clean, functional design, efficient floorplans... and yes, lots of big windows. :-) Could that be duplicated in a class C? I don't see why not. It just seems as if nobody sees the market for it. (Yes, Airstream builds some Sprinter-based class Cs, but they don't impress me.)
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Strange Post on iRV2.com about Lazy Daze
Reply #23 –
Airstream Class Cs? I know the Class Bs well, but not a C. The Class Bs are built on the long Sprinter, and sacrifice openness and windows for packaging all of the amenities of a full size "motor coach" in a 24' package, like say, a certain Lazy Daze model. 

I agree 100% that the appeal of the AS is the "feel", which is really what matters when you spend months at a time on the road. If we went back to a trailer, it would be a 25' Eddie Bauer Airstream. Behind an F150, or Tundra.

Andy, have you gotten out of the campgrounds yet? What do you carry in the back of the Ford?
Paul
'92 Mid Bath
Re: Strange Post on iRV2.com about Lazy Daze
Reply #24 –
"Airstream Class Cs? I know the Class Bs well, but not a C."

Yeah, you're right. To me they look too big to be class Bs, but since they're built in a van rather than on top of a van cutaway, they are class B  motorhomes. I shouldn't have called them class Cs.

"have you gotten out of the campgrounds yet?"

Yes, I got sick of the full-hookup commercial campground where I was staying (lousy scenery, electric power dipping below 100 V every afternoon, and high prices) and left early. I've been dry-camping on public land for a couple of weeks now, and doing surprisingly well. My 39 + 39 gallon holding tanks are only about half full, and I've been replenishing my water tank using a couple of 3.5 gallon carriers that I carry in the truck.

Not that I was all that worried about tank capacity... what surprises me is how well I'm doing electrically, given that I went from Skylark's 600 watts of solar panels plus 500 amp-hours of AGM batteries to this rig's 200 watts of flexible panels laid on the ground, and about 130 amp-hours of Walmart's very cheapest ($75) deep-cycle flooded-cell batteries. (I had to replace the Interstate group 24s that came with the trailer--the dealership had apparently abused them to near-death.)

Of course it's summer, I'm in a mostly-sunny location, and I'm keeping an eye on my power consumption. This setup wouldn't be adequate in the wintertime. But by then I'll have upgraded the electrical system. And in the meantime , I'm not really feeling pinched. :-)
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"