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Topic: Transmission question -- hesitation getting into or mild "bucking" in reverse? (Read 685 times) previous topic - next topic
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Transmission question -- hesitation getting into or mild "bucking" in reverse?
Hi folks,

Our 2000 Mid-Bath has been treating us very well.  We are very happy with it. 

The transmission makes some noise during down-shifting or when going into overdrive, but it may be typical (I'm not really sure).

However, a week or so ago I noticed something new -- that when I back-up, I can either feel some mild "bucking", or there is some hesitation before the transmission actually shifts into reverse (even though the shifter is on "R").

Not being auto-mechanically inclined, I thought I would ask if this is a known symptom, and if it is indicative of a impending transmission failure?  Or if it suggests some sort of corrective or preventative action? 

We did have the transmission fluid changed before beginning this adventure, as well as the rear-differential fluid.  Just so you know that was at least addressed about 4000 miles ago.  We currently have 93,700 miles on the rig.

Any thoughts or suggestions? 

Thanks in advance,

S-
Steven & Carol Crisp -- 2000 26.5' Blue Mid-Bath named Thistle Dew Too
Our RV Motto:  "No place to be ... and all day to get there"
2024 Adventure: The Great Eclipse Escapade!  HI(Air),NV,AZ,NM,Mason,TX(Totality!) ...
Re: Transmission question -- hesitation getting into or mild "bucking" in reverse?
Reply #1 –
Those symptoms are always indiction of problem ahead.
My experience with old stuff starts there. Worn reverse band dropped off the stirrup.  The fluid valve spools sticking because of friction material in the fluid giving it a dark color. Burned oil smell. Loosing transmission fluid etc. This is based on 1970's, 1980's, Chrysler, Ford, GM machines with C3's, E4OD, 700R4, K cars, Focus's.  Usually at about 125,000
Rodney
1988 Mid Bath
Re: Transmission question -- hesitation getting into or mild "bucking" in reverse?
Reply #2 –
Was your transmission "flushed" with an external pump/machine, or was the fluid changed in the normal manner?  Or pumped out with its own pump?  Pan dropped and filter changed (if it has one)?

I have read of problems arising after flushing with external pump/machine, due to sediment being agitated but not completely removed.

Chip
2000 Front Lounge
Re: Transmission question -- hesitation getting into or mild "bucking" in reverse?
Reply #3 –
Rodney - thanks for the feedback.  Unfortunate to hear, but probably so.  Is there any action one should take to get more life out of the existing transmission?  We would certainly love to avoid a failure on the road, and to deal with any major replacement back at home.

Chip - all I can tell you is that the invoice I received included not only 15 qts of synthetic ATF oil, but also an A/T PWR FLUSH KIT "B6600".  Maybe you can assess if that means a power flush.  I think that may have been the case, but am not sure.  Same question to you ... given this info, are there any prudent steps you would recommend to keep the tranny happy?

Thanks to you both, and I welcome any other suggestions or tips.

S-
Steven & Carol Crisp -- 2000 26.5' Blue Mid-Bath named Thistle Dew Too
Our RV Motto:  "No place to be ... and all day to get there"
2024 Adventure: The Great Eclipse Escapade!  HI(Air),NV,AZ,NM,Mason,TX(Totality!) ...
Re: Transmission question -- hesitation getting into or mild "bucking" in reverse?
Reply #4 –
I'm on a cell phone so I am sot able to do a proper search.
Last fall, in Sept or Oct,  I had a trans failure while on the road.  If you suspect that a new transmission is in your future search my name in that time period.  I believe Andy Baird made the first of several mentions of a shop in southeastern CA that builds a more robust Ford transmission.
I am happy with the work done and the price was likely better than what I would of paid in the Washington DC area where I live.  But the the warranty is no good unless I'm in Jacksonville Fl where I broke down.
Pulling the trans and rebuilding it now may save some costs depending on the shop you go to.  The place I went in FL had City, State, and lots of local business contracts. They rebuilt transmissions on site for dealerships as well as customers. You have some time look for that kind of place.   If you live  in SCal go to the place mentioned in the thread.  Or if you have a favored mechanic look into the cost of having it shipped.  The shop, I wish I could remember their name, has a very good reputation. 
John
2007 MB
Currently: 2008 36' Tiffin Open Road
Previously: 2007 Mid Bath
Re: Transmission question -- hesitation getting into or mild "bucking" in reverse?
Reply #5 –
Quote from: Steve and Carol Crisp  - 
Rodney - thanks for the feedback.  Unfortunate to hear, but probably so.  Is there any action one should take to get more life out of the existing transmission?  We would certainly love to avoid a failure on the road, and to deal with any major replacement back at home.

Chip - all I can tell you is that the invoice I received included not only 15 qts of synthetic ATF oil, but also an A/T PWR FLUSH KIT "B6600".  Maybe you can assess if that means a power flush.  I think that may have been the case, but am not sure.  Same question to you ... given this info, are there any prudent steps you would recommend to keep the tranny happy?

Thanks to you both, and I welcome any other suggestions or tips.

S-

I would consider getting something like this sooner, rather than later... unless you already have one:
Amazon.com: ScanGauge SGIIFFP Ultra Compact 3-in-1 Automotive Computer with...

They're locally available at auto parts stores, too.

It is easy to configure to give you a trans temp gauge you can see all the time.  Modify your driving style, route, or schedule to keep things cool.  If you baby it, you might (just might) be able to schedule your trans service/repair instead of having it schedule you.  But you'll definitely need to get it looked at, so start your search here at the site, looking for shops where folks have had good-ish experiences that are also near you, wherever you are right now. 

Can't help with the money side of things, but if you can schedule a side-trip or visit with the relatives while the work is being done, that will at least keep the vacation going.  If you're full-time, then you know the drill.

Didn't find much with that part number.  The original shop should be able to expound upon it.
To my understanding, the often-suggested transmission power flush has an (internet anecdote) history of stirring up gunk that may cause valves, etc. to stick.  Many internet car/truck forum posting about that. 

The more recommended approach (by folks who work on their own cars) is to use the transmission's own pump and plumbing to suck in new fluid, and catch old outbound fluid at normal transmission pressures, and in the normal direction.  This is done by accessing transmission cooler lines, and watching for fluid color change in the outbound fluid.  It is apparently a more complete fluid change than just draining it out, because it covers the torque converter, too.  Full disclosure:  I haven't done it personally.  But it's what I'll do when the time comes.

I'm not expecting you'll set up shop in the campground and do this.  But the internet discussions about it go into symptoms that can crop up when the more aggressive power flush equipment is used.  Might be worth a search and a read for comparison to the symptoms you're seeing.

Best,
Chip
As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
2000 Front Lounge
Re: Transmission question -- hesitation getting into or mild "bucking" in reverse?
Reply #6 –
Steve,
I believe this is the California Tansmission Specialist John is referring to.

John Wood Automotive - 

John Wood in Holtville, California. Here's a screen shot of their contact page.

Good luck with your transmission.

Kent
2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: Transmission question -- hesitation getting into or mild "bucking" in reverse?
Reply #7 –
Quote from: Kent Heckethorn  - 
Steve,
I believe this is the California Tansmission Specialist John is referring to.

John Wood Automotive - 

John Wood in Holtville, California. Here's a screen shot of their contact page.

Good luck with your transmission.

Kent
That is the one.  Thanks
Currently: 2008 36' Tiffin Open Road
Previously: 2007 Mid Bath
Re: Transmission question -- hesitation getting into or mild "bucking" in reverse?
Reply #9 –
Steve & Carol,

Hate to hear of your tranny problems. Steve, if you can, once parked at least overnight in order to allow all to cool, crawl underneath (from the driver's side door) and look for the name-plate on the transmission housing. It's located up above the drain pan towards the tailshaft housing. Take some pictures or ask Carol to write down numbers. What your interested in is the tranny's build date.

Use the attached decoder ring to determine if your tranny build date falls within the known failure range (July 2000 - March 2001). If it does, it's just about guaranteed that she'll have problems. If all else is okay (fluid level/condition/heat load), then to echo what others have said...once you start developing symptoms imho failure is inevitable.

Having recently replaced mine (check my posts), I went with Jasper. They are nationwide and offer 3yr - 100,000 mile warranty. Some of the best money you will spend to provide peace of mind. Good Luck!

Jasper Engines & Tranny

Ray




Ray
Now doing without...
Re: Transmission question -- hesitation getting into or mild "bucking" in reverse?
Reply #10 –
Quote from: Steve and Carol Crisp  - 

When all is said and done, it will be about $5K for a Ford rebuilt transmission.
While this was an expensive repair (as were our repairs at the LD factory), we also briefly considered buying a brand new LD, and this will come in around 10% of that cost, so maybe we should consider it a deal??  ;D  And we certainly did not want the transmission to fail out in the middle of nowhere (which is where we like to spend most of our time ;-)
We have one more repair planned -- we figure with the mileage, we should have the spark plugs replaced, and since we are near a BlownOutSparkPlug.com location,
Steve

Definitely get the plugs changed. At 85,000, I found two finger tight plugs in our 2003 FL, which also has the older heads, with less threads.
At your rig's age,  you should have already changed the heater and radiator hoses. If not, get them done too.
Check water pump, fan clutch, idlers and serpentine belt at the same time

At some point, an aging rig will need a lot of work to keep it dependable. This last year has been a busy one updating all the normal wear items. During the last 18 months, the radiator, water pump, fan clutch, hoses, serpentine belt, idlers have been replaced on the engine. The u-joints and center supports were changed, due to a failing center support bearing.
The brakes had also been rebuilt.
In the next week or two, the parking brake will be rebuilt to cure the poor braking performance. For less than $200, it will be worth the extra peace of mind,
Lastly, a new fue pump installation is planned before our summer trip.
This should conclude the replacement of the things that normally go bad in a LD of its age.
I would rather spend a little extra and do the work at home to avoid breakdowns on the roads.
I don't mind working at home, on my own schedule but absolutely hate things breaking while traveling.

And for those considering buying an older rig, keep in mind that RVs do wear out and are very expensive to have work done on them, unless you are qualified to do the work yourself. And even them, the parts are not cheap, compared to cars parts.

Larry


Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Transmission question -- hesitation getting into or mild "bucking" in reverse?
Reply #11 –
"And for those considering buying an older rig, keep in mind that RVs do wear out and are very expensive to have work done on them, unless you are qualified to do the work yourself. And even them, the parts are not cheap, compared to cars parts."
----
I always smile when the first question people ask about owning an RV is, "What kind of mileage do you get?"  Often, it appears that, for many people, mileage is the primary concern about buying an RV!  Either that, or thinking that an RV is an "investment"; in a lifestyle, yes, but not in any financial sense, unless one sees ongoing cash bleeds for maintenance, repairs, parts, and upgrades and rapid depreciation as "investments".

The RV life and travel style is great; I have never regretted the decision to choose it many years ago, and the wonderful like-minded friends I've made because of that choice are a terrific bonus! The freedom to "goseedo" is something that I hope not to give up until this LD and/or I are no longer road worthy, but it can be an expensive lifestyle/travel choice that many may not be aware of or prepared for. 

Even a high initial build quality rig on a reliable platform will deteriorate quickly without consistent, diligent maintenance, and, as Larry stated, either one does the necessary work oneself, or one hires it done (hopefully, by someone skilled and competent).  The other choice is to defer or ignore timely maintenance, repairs, and/or parts replacements for multiple systems until (barring the unexpected that's not due to poor maintenance) some worn out or un-maintained part or system goes blooey on the road or the rig sits and molders into a beater.

We're fortunate to have "resource"people on the LDO board who are knowledgeable and experienced in every aspect of Lazy Dazes in particular and the RV life and travel style in general; they provide credible advice and accurate information of the "been there, done that" variety and are willing to share. I've found it very enlightening to "listen and learn" from the experts on the board over the past 15 or so years, and I am certain that my rig would not be in the shape it's in today if I hadn't. 

As always, YMMV.


2003 TK has a new home
Re: Transmission question -- hesitation getting into or mild "bucking" in reverse?
Reply #12 –
Quote from: Steve and Carol Crisp  - 

While this was an expensive repair (as were our repairs at the LD factory), we also briefly considered buying a brand new LD, and this will come in around 10% of that cost, so maybe we should consider it a deal??  ;D 


My sentiments exactly.  For us, an RV is a luxury, and it takes a lot of repairs to get the total cost up to the level of a new one! Back when I had to work every day, to keep the bank account from dipping into the red, I had a tranny failure climbing up US 50 one time, on my only transportation, so that was a stressful breakdown!

Transmissions and electronics are expensive, weak links in the system, and I fully expect to be putting in a John Wood tranny someday. Along with the other repairs and upgrades, some necessary, many elective, the cost of an older RV is a long way from a new one.  Enjoy the feel of solid, sure shifts and another (hopefully) 90,000 miles of travel!
Paul
'92 Mid Bath
Re: Transmission question -- hesitation getting into or mild "bucking" in reverse?
Reply #13 –
Steve, when you say "$450 all inclusive," does that include replacement of all the coils as well?  If not, I highly recommend that the coils be replaced at the same time.  Experience showed me that if a (or more) coil needs replacing, the cost is almost as the same as a "simple" spark plug replacement since both require the removal of the doghouse.
2003 RB
Re: Transmission question -- hesitation getting into or mild "bucking" in reverse?
Reply #14 –
Quote from: Lorna Dunham  - 
Steve, when you say "$450 all inclusive," does that include replacement of all the coils as well?  If not, I highly recommend that the coils be replaced at the same time.  Experience showed me that if a (or more) coil needs replacing, the cost is almost as the same as a "simple" spark plug replacement since both require the removal of the doghouse.

Lorna,

That is a good question -- I'm not sure -- I think those might be extra and I will recommend we do that.  Appreciate the heads-up.

S-
Steven & Carol Crisp -- 2000 26.5' Blue Mid-Bath named Thistle Dew Too
Our RV Motto:  "No place to be ... and all day to get there"
2024 Adventure: The Great Eclipse Escapade!  HI(Air),NV,AZ,NM,Mason,TX(Totality!) ...
Re: Transmission question -- hesitation getting into or mild "bucking" in reverse?
Reply #15 –
Quote from: Lorna Dunham  - 
Steve, when you say "$450 all inclusive," does that include replacement of all the coils as well?  If not, I highly recommend that the coils be replaced at the same time. 
BlownOutSparkPlug's service changes the plugs and boots but does not include changing the coils.
The coils themselves are at least $300, a set, and are not considered to be a normal maintenance item that is periodically replaced.
Lorna's LD has an appetite for spark plug coils, for unexplained reasons, and has suffered multiple failure of the engine's coils.
For her, changing all the coils provided some peace of mind.
I carry a couple of spare coils and a OBDII scanner, to pin point and cure any future coil failure. They are not hard to change once the doghouse has been removed.  A 7mm socket is need to remove the bolts securing the coils.

Larry

Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Transmission question -- hesitation getting into or mild "bucking" in reverse?
Reply #16 –
Well thanks to Larry for that useful additional input for my future reference!

And even more thanks to Ed Daniel's private e-mail (the previous owner of my rig which was very well maintained before I left it outside ;-), who reminded me (and had given me receipts to show) that the spark plugs had in fact been changed at 73K miles, so only 20K miles ago. 

Given the fact I have had no issues or symptoms regarding how the engine was running, I've gone ahead and cancelled my appt to have the spark plugs replaced at this time.

You guys and gals are all sooo much help!  Thank you!

S-
Steven & Carol Crisp -- 2000 26.5' Blue Mid-Bath named Thistle Dew Too
Our RV Motto:  "No place to be ... and all day to get there"
2024 Adventure: The Great Eclipse Escapade!  HI(Air),NV,AZ,NM,Mason,TX(Totality!) ...
Re: Transmission question -- hesitation getting into or mild "bucking" in reverse?
Reply #17 –
I had blown out spark plugs do the coil's and a tuneup replacement of the spark plugs at the same time. The cost was 900 and some change. The four hundred something was for the tuneup the the rest was for the set of spark plug coil's and for the exchange and replacement
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gini Free and Junah, canine xtrodinaire
"CHERRYOTTE" our little red home on wheels
"Growing old is mandatory. Growing wise is optional."
Re: Transmission question -- hesitation getting into or mild "bucking" in reverse?
Reply #18 –
Just for clarification, what are ya'll talking about when you say coils??
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: Transmission question -- hesitation getting into or mild "bucking" in reverse?
Reply #19 –
"... what are ya'll talking about when you say coils??"
----
An ignition coil takes the engine battery's low voltage and "converts" it into the high voltage needed to "spark" the plugs and ignite the fuel mix.

Two examples from Rock Auto (for a 2003 E-450 6.8L V-10, but also applies to additional model years)

More Information for DENSO 6736000

More Information for DELPHI GN10164

The engine gurus on the board will likely provide additional information.  ;)
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Transmission question -- hesitation getting into or mild "bucking" in reverse?
Reply #20 –
Quote from: HiLola  - 
Just for clarification, what are ya'll talking about when you say coils??

The V10 has a separate ignition coil for each spark plug - mounted at the plug. There are no high-tension cables, since all ignition timing and distribution is at low voltage.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: Transmission question -- hesitation getting into or mild "bucking" in reverse?
Reply #21 –
 "...all ignition timing and distribution is at low voltage."
-----
Maybe I should have used a different term than "high voltage"? Is this information correct as applied to the ignition system in the E-450?  (Inquiring minds want to know!  :D )

"Electronic ignition systems differ from conventional ignition systems in the distributor component area. Instead of a distributor cam, breaker plate, points, and condenser, an electronic ignition system has an armature (called by various names such as a trigger wheel, reluctor, etc.), a pickup coil (stator, sensor, etc.), and an electronic control module.

Essentially, all electronic ignition systems operate in the following manner: With the ignition switch turned on, primary (battery) current flows from the battery through the ignition switch to the coil primary windings. Primary current is turned on and off by the action of the armature as it revolves past the pickup coil or sensor. As each tooth of the armature nears the pickup coil, it creates a voltage that signals the electronic module to turn off the coil primary current. A timing circuit in the module will turn the current on again after the coil field has collapsed.When the current is off, however, the magnetic field built up in the coil is allowed to collapse, which causes a high voltage in the secondary windings of the coil. It is now operating on the secondary ignition circuit, which is the same as in a conventional ignition system."
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Transmission question -- hesitation getting into or mild "bucking" in reverse?
Reply #22 –
Quote from: HiLola  - 
Just for clarification, what are ya'll talking about when you say coils??
Take a look at the link below, it shows what a COP (coil on plug) looks like, during a spark plug change.
V10 Spark plug change | Flickr

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Transmission question -- hesitation getting into or mild "bucking" in reverse?
Reply #23 –
Interesting, thanks Steve, Joan and Larry!  Very different from my old 350 Chevy engine. Looks like a blast to work on.  :o
Greg & Victoria
2017 Mid-Bath  “Nocona” towing a manual 2015 Forester
Previously a 1985 TK
SKP #61264
Re: Transmission question -- hesitation getting into or mild "bucking" in reverse?
Reply #24 –
Quote from: HiLola  - 
Interesting, thanks Steve, Joan and Larry!  Very different from my old 350 Chevy engine. Looks like a blast to work on.  :o
COP spark plugs have been used for many years, nothing new here.
No more spark plug wires to go bad and leak., which is good due to the difficulty of getting to the V10's plugs.
The 350 Chevy V8 was easier to work on and it needed work often, unlike the V10.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze