Catalytic Heater Installation - Accessing Propane Line

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Catalytic Heater Installation - Accessing Propane Line

July 25, 2016, 10:11:15 am

I've read that many people have tapped into the main propane line to run space heaters (i.e. Wave, etc...). I actually had the person who works on my RV here in Las Cruces do that.

However, I've also seen people run these heaters using a propane tank that they place just outside their RV. Are they drilling a hole for the hose in the floor of their RV? It seems that this way would be a better way to go if you were running the heater a lot - you could just swap out the tank and go in your tow car to get it filled.

Has anyone done this? Which way do you prefer?

Re: How to Access Propane for Heater?

Reply #1 – July 25, 2016, 11:40:45 am

Our Olympian cat heater (predecessor to the Wave 3) is plumbed in. In normal usage, consumption is so low compared to other appliances that running low on propane has never been a concern. However, when using these, windows should be kept ajar, so I guess snaking a hose out one would be an option. Generally, when you need heat, bugs coming through an open screen will not be an issue.

Steve

Re: How to Access Propane for Heater?

Reply #2 – July 25, 2016, 12:59:52 pm

In the MB, the easiest way to plumb into Your LD's propane system is to remove the stove, allowing access the propane line.
The line is cut and flared, before a tee is installed.
A new propane line is run to the bottom of the cabinet where a valve and a quick disconnect (QD) fitting are install.
The QD is located in the cabinet's kick space, under the stove.
Other floor plans have different locations for the QD. The QD can be located in alternative places, near the propane tank, depending on the floor plan. In these situations, the propane line is accessed under the floor, at the propane tank and regulator.
In a MB the alternative propane QD can be located forward, under the MB's dinette.
When the heater is not in use, it can be quickly and easily disconnected and stored.

I use a kit from RV Solar Electric that includes 5' hose, quick-disconnect and propane fittings.
Portable heater hook up kit
Add a gas-rated shut-off valve, to securely turn the gas off when not in use.
Installing this kit requires a tube flaring tool, plus the ability to make a gas-tight flare in the cut propane line.
Leak testing, after installing, is mandatory
Best left to an experienced tech. Don't want anyone to get hurt or burned.

You will love having the heater next winter, right now, not so much.

Larry

Re: How to Access Propane for Heater?

Reply #3 – July 26, 2016, 12:08:02 am

The people you saw with a tank outside their RV were probably using an "extended a stay" which allows them to Connect an external propane tank to the onboard propane system. This allows you to drive your tank to get it filled without ever moving the RV if you have a tow vehicle. I would recommend hooking the catalytic heater into your existing onboard propane system as opposed to running a hose out the window and getting an extend the stay if you intend to really stay in cold climates long enough and don't want to move the RV.

Re: How to Access Propane for Heater?

Reply #4 – July 29, 2016, 01:32:52 pm

Have you or do you know of anyone that has actually installed the extend a stay on their LD. I have a 2003 30' IB and the gas line doesn't seem to be very flexible, though I have not actually detached it from the tank. I have some concern that the line would not bend enough to allow the extra room for the extend a stay "manafold" to be installed.

Re: How to Access Propane for Heater?

Reply #5 – July 29, 2016, 02:23:53 pm

Since most RV appliances, BBQs, lanterns, etc., require 'high pressure' (or have their own regulator) the best location for an Extend A Stay is at the outlet of the LP tank and prior to the regulator. That's where mine has been these last twelve years. Yes, there is enough flex (about 4") to accommodate the in-line device. If you're not comfortable with doing the work most RV Service Dept.'s will know how. As to 'heaters' I have no experience.

I also carry two (2) 6' LP hoses which I connect to give me 12' of maneuverability. That way, with the tank on the street side I can lay the hose in front of the front tires and place my BBQ on the curb side. Works for me!

Re: How to Access Propane for Heater?

Reply #6 – July 30, 2016, 01:37:08 am

"Since most RV appliances, BBQs, lanterns, etc., require 'high pressure' (or have their own regulator)..."

This statement could be confusing, as it appears to lump together two different categories of propane devices. (I know you didn't mean to, but it could be read that way.)

Just to clarify: as far as I know, the interior appliances in our RVs--the water heater, fridge, furnace, stove*, and catalytic heater (if installed)--require low pressure (about 11 inches of water). Supplying it is the job of the regulator mounted next to the propane tank.

However, propane-powered standalone devices such as lanterns, barbecues, Mr. Heater Portable Buddy and the like, expect high pressure--they're designed to be connected directly to propane tanks, so they have their own regulators. It's important not to mix up the two types of devices.

"the best location for an Extend A Stay is at the outlet of the LP tank and prior to the regulator."

Right. That way it can feed high-pressure propane from an external tank to your RV's built-in regulator, which will bring it down to the low pressure needed by inside appliances. And most Extend-A-Stay type hookups can also supply high-pressure propane to an outside barbecue or similar device that is equipped to use it.

* I understand that the stove has some kind of internal regulator. I get the impression it's a safety measure to prevent dangerous flare-ups if the main regulator fails. I'm sure the more knowledgeable members here can explain better than I can.

Re: How to Access Propane for Heater?

Reply #7 – July 30, 2016, 01:50:32 am

Quote from: Bob - July 29, 2016, 01:32:52 pm

Have you or do you know of anyone that has actually installed the extend a stay on their LD. I have a 2003 30' IB and the gas line doesn't seem to be very flexible, though I have not actually detached it from the tank. I have some concern that the line would not bend enough to allow the extra room for the extend a stay "manafold" to be installed.

In most application, an extend-a-stay requires cutting of the propane line and then flaring the cut end. Space in the line needs to be made to accommodate the length of the extend-a-stay.
The connections need to be absolutely gas tight and is definitely not a job for amateurs.

Larry

Re: How to Access Propane for Heater?

Reply #8 – July 30, 2016, 02:06:33 am

Quote from: Andy Baird - July 30, 2016, 01:37:08 am

I understand that the stove has some kind of internal regulator. I get the impression it's a safety measure to prevent dangerous flare-ups if the main regulator fails. I'm sure the more knowledgeable members here can explain better than I can.

My understanding is the stove's internal regulator is there to prevent flare ups in case the main propane regulator fails, which would turn the burners into blow torches, if in use at the time of failure.
While the internal regulator is a fine place to check the propane pressure, using a manometer, it will allow more are than 11" pounds of pressure to pass.
I have seen one pass more than 14'"s, while adjusting the main pressure regulator.

Larry

Re: How to Access Propane for Heater?

Reply #9 – July 30, 2016, 10:13:49 am

"The connections need to be absolutely gas tight and is definitely not a job for amateurs."
----
I believe that some RVers, perhaps more than "some", and certainly more than a few LPG dispensers, too, underestimate (sometimes to the point of cluelessness) the volatility of propane and the potential for disaster if a propane system is not maintained, leak checks done regularly, and/or an installation of a propane appliance or add-on system is inexpertly/carelessly done.

I definitely advise an owner to research the behaviors of LPG, to know what to look for (and smell!) to do a surface check of the system, and to understand the how-to and tools needed to do an installation in order to understand the process, but unless the person has real knowledge, experience, and training in propane systems and the proper tools to do the work correctly and safely, please do follow Larry's counsel that "gas" jobs should be left to experienced professionals.

Working with LPG in any capacity is not a "Here, hold my beer; gotta light a match to see where the leak is coming from!" job. At least, not more than once!

Re: How to Access Propane for Heater?

Reply #10 – August 31, 2016, 07:15:48 pm

Before you go to all the trouble to install a catalytic heater I suggest you give a portable Buddy heater a try.

Portable Buddy Heater

Only about $100 so if you don't like it you're not out much, compared to the higher expense and modifications usually involved with a catalytic heater.

We originally bought our Buddy heater for our old Vanagon camper and when we got our LD just moved it over, thinking we'd eventually go the catalytic route. But the Buddy heater works so well we've never bothered. I've not had a catalytic heater of course but at this point see little reason to try one.

We just use the 1lb. propane cylinders in our Buddy heater. I stock up periodically at Walmart, where they are relatively cheap, and it's legal to store them inside, unlike a refillable bottle.

I like the fact that the Buddy heater can simply be picked up and moved to the most appropriate location for the circumstances.

The Buddy heater may actually be safer. Yes you need to leave a vent or window cracked and shouldn't sleep with it on, just like with a catalytic heate , but it also has an oxygen sensor that will shut it off if the oxygen level gets too low.

We've had our Buddy heater for about 15-20 years now and it's been entirely trouble free and requires no maintenance that I can see.

Terry
2003 26.5'RB
Gardnerville, NV

Re: How to Access Propane for Heater?

Reply #11 – August 31, 2016, 10:02:06 pm

Terry, we were in your town today, touring with a realtor. You live in a nice place!

I have a place in mind to store the Portable Buddy, but cannot find measurements on the site. Can you help me out?
Thank you

Re: How to Access Propane for Heater?

Reply #12 – August 31, 2016, 10:39:15 pm

Paul, I have that heater as well. Box measurements are 9" x 14" x 14." Let me know if you need measurements of the actual unit. I have model MH9BX.

Re: How to Access Propane for Heater?

Reply #13 – August 31, 2016, 11:35:32 pm

Thanks Hilola, that will fit. I am convinced this will replace my old old Coleman catalytic heater. No plumbing, portable, plenty of heat.

Re: How to Access Propane for Heater?

Reply #14 – September 01, 2016, 05:46:49 pm

Quote from: Terry Burnes - August 31, 2016, 07:15:48 pm

The Buddy heater may actually be safer. Yes you need to leave a vent or window cracked and shouldn't sleep with it on, just like with a catalytic heate , but it also has an oxygen sensor that will shut it off if the oxygen level gets too low.

All the current Olympian models have an O2 sensor. However, the cat combustion temperature is so low and the surface area so large that it is safer at low O2 levels (high altitude) than a non-cat heater. However, the big differences are the extremely low to non-existent CO emissions of the cat heater compared to conventional combustion, and the low probability of starting a fire from accidental contact with clothes, etc.

Steve

Re: How to Access Propane for Heater?

Reply #15 – September 01, 2016, 09:43:54 pm

Paul,

I've spent time in Palo Alto, greater LA, Phoenix, Oklahoma, Denver and saw a lot of the world in the USAF. I've never been happier than in the Carson Valley. Nice people, pleasant 4 season climate, just the right mix of urban and rural for me but most of all ready access to the mountains and desert I love. Winter skiing, summer cycling. Close to Reno, a great little city that's rising, and to Northern California, where we came from and where our son still lives in SF. I call this place Montana in California because it sort of combines the best of both. The downside might be wind but we've adjusted and come to actually like it. And modest urban amenities, like dining if that's important. Good medical care. Doctors like the access to the outdoors. And we could afford a house with an RV garage.

Terry
2003 26.5'RB
Gardnerville, NV

Re: How to Access Propane for Heater?

Reply #16 – September 07, 2016, 09:05:21 am

Quote from: Larry Wade - July 30, 2016, 01:50:32 am

In most application, an extend-a-stay requires cutting of the propane line and then flaring the cut end. Space in the line needs to be made to accommodate the length of the extend-a-stay.
The connections need to be absolutely gas tight and is definitely not a job for amateurs.

Larry

I found this video on how to install it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb6H448KsP8

Re: How to Access Propane for Heater?

Reply #17 – September 07, 2016, 10:03:14 am

"I suggest you give a portable Buddy heater a try."

Reading the specs for this product, it says the max. elevation it's designed for is 7,000'.
Ever tried it at say 9 or 10k feet?

Ed

Answered my own question. ,

Looked at the video about this unit. It said that because of the Oxygen Depletion System, the unit can't be used over 7,000'. I guess there is simply not enough oxygen at higher elevations to allow the unit to operate.

Re: How to Access Propane for Heater?

Reply #18 – September 07, 2016, 11:27:26 am

Quote from: Ed D. - September 07, 2016, 10:03:14 am

"I suggest you give a portable Buddy heater a try."
Reading the specs for this product, it says the max. elevation it's designed for is 7,000'.
Ever tried it at say 9 or 10k feet?

We have use a Wave 3 at altitudes as high as 10,000', without issues, for over a decade .

A Buddy uses high-pressure, disposable cylinders, greatly increasing the cost of operation, while a Wave uses the onboard propane supply, supplied at a very low pressure, This makes the rare but potential leak much less likely or severe, while significantly dropping the cost of operation, a consideration for winter operation.

Larry.

Re: How to Access Propane for Heater?

Reply #19 – October 16, 2016, 11:46:08 am

We love our Wave Catalytic heater. We have been using one for more than 15 years. We do not have ie plumbed to the main LP tank. We use a separete tank, placed outside. I run the hos through an open window and seal the opening with a strip of pipe insulation. There is another window nearby that i leave open at least three inches for the device to access O2. We have never had a problem. If we are staying high in sufreezing night temps and run out of LP, we switch out the tank for a full one is n the nearest town. We tried the various Heater Buddies and found them of marginal use due to need to constantly replace the botles. That adds up over tim. Catalutic is best, IMO.

Re: How to Access Propane for Heater?

Reply #20 – October 16, 2016, 03:43:24 pm

The portable Buddy heater's can be plummed into the propain system or use a more economical larger portable tanks. We have used these for years but not in enclosed spaces because they use up breathable oxygen and out put harmfull gasses more then the wave systems. We use them outside to heat open air situations or where there can be good airflow while people are awake.

~Liam
98 26.6 - MB

Re: How to Access Propane for Heater?

Reply #21 – February 03, 2017, 08:00:33 pm

Installation of my new Wave 6 Catalytic heater is complete. I am vey satisfied with the install done by Meyers RV in Torrance Ca.

After a brief discussion with Manny at Meyers as to the possible location of the propane quick disconnect its final placement was very satisfactory.

We had originally contemplated the connection placement inside the cabinet below the sink in the RB. It was thought that it may be feasible to mount it midway between the two shelves in the bulkhead between the cabinet and the furnace.

The final installation was in a more useable location in my opinion. It is now just right of the furnace grill and accessible without opening a cabinet or putting a hole in the furnace grill (something that I believe other LDO members have done). It is above foot level and nestled neatly beside the door jam (bulkhead?) of the RB.

While I have not tested the connection as of yet, Manny and the other team members at Meyers ran extensive tests for leaks and functionality.

I am now waiting for the Wave legs to arrive from Amazon. By Saturday night I should be feeling the warmth of my new upgrade.

Final cost for this professional installation was $372.50 ($248 of that was labor and $114.49 was for parts). Everyone at Meyers RV was very personable, curtious and down to earth. It's an experience I won't mind repeating. Manny even helped with my Flojet Macerator connection at no extra cost.

Here are some shots of the final installation.

Kent

Re: How to Access Propane for Heater?

Reply #22 – February 03, 2017, 11:03:30 pm

Quote from: Kent Heckethorn - February 03, 2017, 08:00:33 pm

Installation of my new Wave 6 Catalytic heater is complete. I am vey satisfied with the install done by Meyers RV in Torrance Ca.

After a brief discussion with Manny at Meyers as to the possible location of the propane quick disconnect its final placement was very satisfactory.

We had originally contemplated the connection placement inside the cabinet below the sink in the RB. It was thought that it may be feasible to mount it midway between the two shelves in the bulkhead between the cabinet and the furnace.

The final installation was in a more useable location in my opinion. It is now just right of the furnace grill and accessible without opening a cabinet or putting a hole in the furnace grill (something that I believe other LDO members have done). It is above foot level and nestled neatly beside the door jam (bulkhead?) of the RB.

While I have not tested the connection as of yet, Manny and the other team members at Meyers ran extensive tests for leaks and functionality.

I am now waiting for the Wave legs to arrive from Amazon. By Saturday night I should be feeling the warmth of my new upgrade.

Final cost for this professional installation was $372.50 ($248 of that was labor and $114.49 was for parts). Everyone at Meyers RV was very personable, curtious and down to earth. It's an experience I won't mind repeating. Manny even helped with my Flojet Macerator connection at no extra cost.

Here are some shots of the final installation.

Kent

Kent, would you like to have Meyers RV added to the recommended list of repair facilities? If so, please post their address.
Chris

Re: Catalytic Heater Installation - Accessing Propane Line

Reply #23 – February 04, 2017, 02:32:00 am

Chris,

Meyers RV has a nice LD following already from what I was told. If these LD owners are on LDO then perhaps they can concur as to my satisfactory review.

After speaking with Manny at Meyers, I get the impression that they are dedicated to getting things done right.

They had my job completed in 2 1/2 days and except for the quick disconnect itself, I would never have known they had taken my galley apart.

Located in LA county they are centrally located in Torrance CA at 433 Alaska Avenue (310) 328-1515. Not far off the 405 and Crenshaw.

I'm covering all my bases. The Mothership, my local Ford truck center and Meyers RV. Life is good.

Kent

Re: Catalytic Heater Installation - Accessing Propane Line

Reply #24 – February 04, 2017, 11:42:35 am

Nice, clean installation Kent. You ought to stay toasty at night!
I'll keep the contact info for future reference.

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