Inverter Problem July 22, 2016, 09:48:08 pm Hello Fellow Lazy Dazers,I have read much of the Lazy Daze forum and am grateful for all of your expert information. I have been to shy to join in the discussions. But...here I go: My husband and I own a 2001RB with entertainment center not overhead bunk. We are currently in Mexico. The inverter just began giving this high pitched, sustained beep when we switch the outlet that controls the TV/entertainment center to "on". The TV/entertainment center outlet does not work now (it had been working fine). We have tried tripping the breakers and that has not helped. We also accessed the inverter under the dining room bench seat and switched it on and off again...that didn't help. That is about as technical as we get. Additional information: the high pitched sound began BEFORE we plugged into shore power. The coach had been sitting idle for about a month. When we started it up to take it for a day drive, we noticed the high pitched sound. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to fix this problem?Thank you in advance for your help!Jessica and Gary Jertberg
Re: Inverter Problem Reply #1 – July 22, 2016, 11:31:48 pm Sure, the coach batteries are not charged to a high enough voltage. Low voltage input to an inverter and it screams. Measure the coach battery voltage or the inverter input voltage and you will probably find your problem. Read the manual for the inverter and it should tell you what voltage it mus see to stop the screaming. (Just a guess)Harry 2006 RB without the entertainment center.
Re: Inverter Problem Reply #2 – July 23, 2016, 09:27:25 am Thank you so much Harry! Do I need a special tool to measure the coach battery voltage?
Re: Inverter Problem Reply #3 – July 23, 2016, 12:12:28 pm A digital voltmeter will be needed. If your batteries do not come up after driving around awhile, or being plugged in overnight, then they may have been damaged and will need to be replaced.Steve
Re: Inverter Problem Reply #4 – July 23, 2016, 01:56:38 pm Ok, we have been plugged in overnight. I'm guessing they are damaged and need to be replaced. Thank you Harry and Steve!
Re: Inverter Problem Reply #5 – July 23, 2016, 02:40:56 pm Have you checked the fluid levels in your batteries lately? If they are allowed to dry out, they won't hold a charge. The solution could be as simple as adding distilled water. It's worth a look.
Re: Inverter Problem Reply #6 – July 24, 2016, 09:03:18 am Quote from: Andy Baird - July 23, 2016, 02:40:56 pmHave you checked the fluid levels in your batteries lately? If they are allowed to dry out, they won't hold a charge. The solution could be as simple as adding distilled water. It's worth a look.I'll add to Andy's post something I learned from the golf cart folks after we made a mistake and let our GC battery water levels get too low. If your batteries ARE low on water, don't top them completely off then try to charge - you'll likely have boil over. Start by adding some water, then charge up, then add more water, charge again, etc. It's best to always have the batteries at full charge before adding any needed water, but of course that's not always an option if the level got too low and they won't charge at all.
Re: Inverter Problem Reply #7 – July 25, 2016, 11:10:35 pm I will check the battery water as both Andy and Michelle suggested. Thank you!
Re: Inverter Problem Reply #8 – July 31, 2016, 01:14:01 pm Hello Again! I have an update on my battery/inverter problem and a few questions. Please forgive my non-technical language.We removed the existing 2- 6volt batteries that came with the coach when we bought it. We took them to a battery shop here in Mexico and one of the batteries was dead. We replaced the batteries with 2, new 6 volt golf cart deep cycle batteries. After the battery replacement, the inverter still screams. I spent all of last night reading the Lazy Daze Companion articles concerning batteries, converters and inverters. What I came away with is: in order to properly care for our new batteries, we should replace the converter to a 3 stage charging or "smart" converter. Is that true? What is the best converter we can buy without having to change all of the wiring (we are not that technical). Also, I could not find an inverter to match the one that is currently in the LD. It is a 400 watt "hard wired?" inverter. It is only running the entertainment center outlet where we have a tv, blue ray, apple TV and sometimes a sound bar when we have movie and popcorn night. (we have a 4 year old) Is there an inverter that someone would suggest to replace the existing one? It seems to me that now would be a good time for me to upgrade my whole electrical system. The problem is that I don't have the money to upgrade the solar right now. What I would like to do is replace the inverter and converter with the ability to upgrade our solar later and not have to replace the inverter and converter later...if that is possible.Lastly, we travel California and Mexico mostly. We are beginning to enjoy the ability to not always have to have hookups. We would love to boondock more. I think that our lack of understanding of how the house batteries enable us to boondock has kept us from staying away from hookups for too long. It seemed like our lights/water pump/fans only lasted a day or so and we were under the impression that the generator would charge the house batteries...but it never seemed to do the job. Maybe our batteries just never worked. Also, I thought that our solar controller gave us the state of our batteries and after reading last night, I see that that is not so. I read that a battery monitor is necessary. Can someone suggest an easy to install battery monitor?Thank you for your help!Jessica
Re: Inverter Problem Reply #9 – July 31, 2016, 01:44:37 pm Jessica, one good source of information (and products if the information indicates that a "product" is needed!) is:BestConverter - Converters, Inverters, Electrical Supplies, ElectronicsYou will very likely receive additional responses from the electrical gurus on the board, but might also want to talk to Randy at Best Converter.
Re: Inverter Problem Reply #10 – July 31, 2016, 02:13:55 pm Hi Jessica. Well you have started your journey to knowing more about your electrical systems. You don't need a new inverter. Yes it is hardwired. You don't need a battery monitor, especially not immediately. While they are nice to have, they are more of a luxury in my opinion. You don't need a converter right away. You hit the nail on the Head- Your generator does a poor job of charging the batteries, because the converter you have wasn't designed to charge the batteries. The engine alternator has the ability to put a heavy charge in the batteries. A new multi-stage converter would put more charge on the batteries with less time running the generator. You didn't mention what year your coach is. When you bought these new batteries, were they fully charged? Did you clean and inspect your battery terminals? As a temporary substitute for an updated converter (just the battery charging portion of it needs upgrading) you can substitute a heavy duty deep cycle battery charger clipped onto both new batteries and plugged in to the 110VAC provided by your generator. You say you have solar panel(s). How many watts? What type of controller? The voltmeter built in will tell you the condition of your batteries, but you have to know what the numbers mean. Battery voltage above 12.7 an hour after sundown is a good thing. If you are running a lot of watts(hours) out of your batteries by using the TV, water pump and lighting, and not replacing those watts during the day with the solar, then your batteries will get worse each day. A voltage below about 12 before the solar starts charging is bad for their lifetimes. More solar panels and/or less power use will help a lot. The TV is a flat screen, LCD, LED backlit, low power draw model, right? Hope this helped. RonBp.s. to help your technical language: A circuit breaker 'trips' when it detects a current more than it's rating. typically the number on the lever. It goes to a middle position to indicate it has tripped. You then need to turn it to the off position, then turn it on, to Reset it. If it trips again, then there is something wrong with a device plugged in, too many things plugged in, or the wiring downstream from the breaker. (or the breaker itself is bad).
Re: Inverter Problem Reply #11 – July 31, 2016, 02:42:30 pm I agree. Don't buy anything till you understand more. A stand alone battery charger able to supply 20 amps or so can be used to charge your batteries till you figure things out. I don't consider a battery monitor a luxury but other than that I agree with others. You do not need a new converter. You probably do not need a new inverter.May I suggest the following as reading material. The RV BATTERY CHARGING PUZZLE « HandyBob's Blog
Re: Inverter Problem Reply #12 – July 31, 2016, 03:00:44 pm Thank you Joan...I'll research that website.Hi Ron,Thank you for your response. My coach is a 2001 Rear Bath with entertainment center. I bought the batteries yesterday and they were fully charged (thats what the guy told me). When we installed them, the RV-30S CHARGE CONTROLLER showed a 12.5 reading with the green "charging" light on. So we plugged the LD in over night just in case the batteries weren't fully charged and last night and this morning the highest read we have on the controller is 12.6. We did clean and inspect the battery terminals and the whole battery holder area. One thing I didn't mention, because I was too embarrassed , is that when we initially installed the new batteries we accidentally wired them incorrectly and there was a quick spark...then we installed them correctly and everything (except for the inverter/tv outlet) worked fine again. I give you info in case you may think that did something bad. We have 1 of the factory installed solar panels 85 watts, I believe. And the controller is the RV-30s.Yes, the TV is a flat screen backlit LED.The batteries we got are Champion GC2, CR107min...There are not many 6 volt battery options where I'm at in Mexico (1-1/2 hours from Guadalajara). The store we bought them from is allowing us to try them out and we can return them if they don't work for the motorhome.So it's good to know that I don't have to replace the converter. But what do I do about the inverter? The tv oulet doesn't work (whether I'm plugged into shore power or not) and the inverter is still screaming when I switch the tv outlet to "on".Thanks again!Jessica
Re: Inverter Problem Reply #13 – July 31, 2016, 03:08:21 pm Hi HBN7HJ,I like to hear "don't buy anything"! I'll read your suggestion "charging puzzle" now. I was hoping to get the inverter/tv , new house batteries issue resolved asap. We aren't tv people and rarely even watch it, I just hate having something "broken" while we are traveling! Thanks,Jessica
Re: Inverter Problem Reply #14 – July 31, 2016, 04:23:49 pm Hi Jessica. I'll bet there aren't many of us working with batteries that haven't experienced a few sparks! The new batteries should work fine if they fit in the compartment, but the inverter shouldn't still be sounding off. 12.5 volts on the RV-30S sounds a little low, but if the batteries are topping off from solar, it could be ok. The inverter has it's own breaker. While your generator is running, or you are plugged in, the inverter should pass through the 110VAC. The solar voltmeter should show about 13+ volts during the day if the batteries are connected. While you are plugged in you should see the battery voltage at about 13.5 volts even at night. Also while plugged in you can run the TV from a different outlet, without turning on the inverter. The inverter isn't seeing full 12 volts from the battery. That should be a 400W 'true' sine wave Xantrex from Lazy Daze. Obviously it's connected to something or it wouldn't make any noise. I have a little 75 watt almost handheld inverter for a cigarette lighter ($8) that could probably run your TV and BluRay player. Good for charging small things, but as Andy said dedicated 12vdc chargers are generally more efficient, i.e. phones, shavers, etc. I hope things are getting clearer. RonB
Re: Inverter Problem Reply #15 – July 31, 2016, 05:20:54 pm Hi Ron,We unplugged the coach from shorepower and turned on the truck engine. The RV-30s charge controller then went up to 13.8. We left the truck running for about a 1/2 hour and it remained at 13.8. Once we turned the truck off, it went quickly back down to 12.5. I think I will try to find an external battery charger and give that a try. It seems like my new house batteries aren't getting fully charged. hmmmm...Thanks for all of your help! I'll keep you posted.
Re: Inverter Problem Reply #16 – July 31, 2016, 07:39:40 pm Hi Jessica. Power from the engine alternator has to flow through your diode isolator, to your battery, and then to the solar controller's voltmeter. so that means it is connected. A 10 to 20 amp battery charger going straight to the batteries from shore power, and another voltmeter used at the battery terminals to corroborate the RV-30S reading would be nice. (think cheap or free Harbor Freight meter when in the US.) Do you have any moderate loads running all the time? lighting, fans, radio, computer and the always running LP gas detector? 85 watts solar is pretty limited. For away from shore power, another 85 watt panel would do wonders for you. It would need to match the one you have. The converter you have is probably like my '99, and has about 2-4 amps charging rate. Pretty anemic, but I've got 150 watts solar. I usually stay a few days in one place on just battery, and then drive a few hours to my next location. My charge circuit voltage while driving often is in the 14.5 volt range. You seem to have external 110VAC when you need it. See if you can borrow an external battery charger. I'd like to see 13.8 volts on that RV-30S meter, 12.8Vdc without the external charger. RonB
Re: Inverter Problem Reply #17 – July 31, 2016, 08:22:53 pm That 'spark' when you incorrectly connected the batteries almost certainly blew fuses. Check ALL the fuse in the fusepanel of the converter, the fuse to the solar charge controller, etc...Steve
Re: Inverter Problem Reply #18 – August 01, 2016, 12:02:46 am Thank you Ron and Steve. I will double check the fuses. We did replace the converter fuse right after installing the batteries, but I should double check the solar panel fuse. I think we can drive the LD to the battery shop tomorrow and ask to borrow an external battery charger.
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