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Steer Safe Stabilizers & sway bars
Have been thinking about adding Steer Safe to our 2015 MB because of the liveliness of the steering caused by road imperfections and concern about what might happen with a front tire failure. Looked at some of the old files but did not find much so wondered about the current thinking and experience with these items. Would appreciate you thoughts and experience. Thanks

Ian
"Silver Fox"
Seattle
2015 MB
Re: Steer Safe Stabilizers & sway bars
Reply #1 –
Had ours installed at Good Sam Ralley in Phoenix in 2011 and my wife loves it.
Re: Steer Safe Stabilizers & sway bars
Reply #2 –
Just my experience: I had Steer Safe installed five or six years ago by the manufacturer in Deming, NM. The difference in handling was not noticeable, and the klugy clamped-on hardware looked like a potential failure point. I had it taken off last month at Henderson's Line-Up in Grants Pass, OR. They replaced it with a Safe-T-Plus unit.

The difference, as I understand it: Steer Safe is just some big springs that try to center the steering gear. Safe-T-Plus is essentially a spring-loaded shock absorber that not only exerts centering force, but soaks up sudden changes in steering direction (e.g., "bump steer") while not interfering with normal steering.

Now, I wish I could offer a direct comparison based on before-and-after driving, but I had Henderson's install beefed-up front and rear anti-sway bars and new Koni shocks at the same time they added the Safe-T-Plus, so many things changed. The rig is noticeably less vulnerable to sidewinds and passing trucks, but I can't say that the Safe-T-Plus is solely responsible; probably it's a combination of all the enhancements I had made.

What I can say is this: in my experience, Steer Safe made little if any difference in handling; and from an engineering standpoint, Safe-T-Plus looks like a better solution. But that's just one man's opinion, so take it with a grain of salt. :-)
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Steer Safe Stabilizers & sway bars
Reply #3 –
Quote from: Ian & Jean  - 
Have been thinking about adding Steer Safe to our 2015 MB because of the liveliness of the steering caused by road imperfections and concern about what might happen with a front tire failure. Looked at some of the old files but did not find much so wondered about the current thinking and experience with these items. Would appreciate you thoughts and experience.
Andy's experience sums it up well.
I have remove three Steer Safes from various LD, over the years, due to broken springs and other failed hardware.
When one of the big springs breaks, usually due to rust, the steering will constantly pull to one side until the spring is replaced or the whole unit removed. IMO - thumbs down.

A Safe-t-plus is basically a hydraulic stabilizer, much like the one that comes on all E350/E450s, which has in addition, two internal springs that, once properly adjusted, help keep the steering centered.
Many times the attachment to the tie rod will slip and cause the steering to pull to one side, until it is readjusted.
I marked the tie rod so that if it slips, it can be visually detected. Do have the clamps check regularly for proper torque.
The installation of a Safe-T-Steer is a one-way trip since the stock stabilizer is removed and new  mount for the Sate-T-Plus is weld on. You can't go back to stock, once done.

If your steering does not feel centered and stable, the first thing to check is the front steering and suspension condition and alignment.Worn parts or too little caster will allow wandering. Proper caster is extremely important in keeping  the steering centered and stable.
The E450 has a very powerful hydraulic enhanced steering system. Can't say I have ever felt like it was not strong enough to handle the roughest road conditions or whatever the front tires run into. It's a lot stronger than any set of added-on small springs.
I would suspect the addition of larger front and back sway bars would have a more positive effect on steering and handling, compared to either a Steer Safe or Safe-T-Plus.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Steer Safe Stabilizers & sway bars
Reply #4 –
I was just going to post a question on this subject. Glad to see someone has already started this conversation. Jun. 2 I had my 2006 27'RB front end alignment. Drove it and all seemed ok. Then I drove down to the Mother Ship on June 20 to have something checked out. Going there was fine. Coming back and half way home I could not believe how rough the rig was riding. Probably about a mile or so. After that, it was ok. Rough road, probably but the shaking was so bad that when I got home & went inside the rig, the TV had came off the holder. The screw was on the floor near drivers side ! That's really crazy. Has Anyone ever experienced this? or experienced rough riding? Tires are new. Could it be shocks? Is Bilstein Shocks the best as I've read? or are they a rough ride? I see Andy got Koni. Hope I can find some info as I want to take a trip to OR. this month. Also if anyone lives in the San Fernando Valley who may know of a place or someone to have this checked out. Thanks everyone..

Jo
2006 27'RB
Re: Steer Safe Stabilizers & sway bars
Reply #5 –
We had Henderson put Saf-T-Steer on our '92, along with some other goodies, as Andy had. The handling improved a great deal.  The shocks and sway bars made a big impact.

Specifically  the steering us much less loosy-goosy.  Of course the folks at Henderson adjusted the steering box to be a bit tighter at the same time, so that may be the solution I am feeling. The Saf-T-Steer ensures the wheel returns to center very well, but there is no noticeable increase in the effort needed to turn the wheel. Wander is gone, on a road that is flat I can go along in a straight line without having to correct the wheel.  All that is nice, but the cost is pretty steep. I coulda done fine without, but don't tell my wife. Many people find the "bump steer" a bigger issue than I do. The benefit in a front tire blowout? I hope not to ever experience.

I would not put any other steering system on, but this is a pricey one. Can't say I consider it an essential.
Paul
'92 Mid Bath
Re: Steer Safe Stabilizers & sway bars
Reply #6 –
It has been a few years, but we have direct experience with Steer-Safe a few thousand miles with the stock Ford steering hydraulic dampener and 15,000 miles with one installed.
Note that some shops do like to weld on a bracket to mount the Steer Safe, some do not.  We did not have a bracket welded on.  I substituted a torque check of the mounting clamp nuts every few thousand miles or so.  I remember having to tighten them once, at which time I installed a second set of nuts as a double lock.  Never had to tighten them again.  Steer safe provided a definite improvement in directional stability and almost eliminated the 'Bump Steer'  that occurred when encountering a bump during cornering in our E350 Class C Born Free.  We were pleased with the steering of the Born Free, which also had the then basic rear Air Bags to help control sway. 

After a few thousand miles on our new 2001 E-450 Lazy Daze mid bath, we took it to Henderson's for their recommended treatment to improve overall steering.  It displayed both 'rut wander' and 'bump steer' and it was unpleasant in cross winds and when passed by the 18 wheelers.  Loading was on the button fore and aft and side to side was within 500 pounds.  We typically ran 2000 pounds below MTGW.   Hendersons installed a silver Safe-T-Plus in lieu of the White one I had installed.  Their experience was that the White unit did not have enough force to adequately control the steering of the E450.    They also tightened the Ford steering box tolerances and installed an IPD rear Sway Bar and we had their first installation of their 'Super Steer' rear track bar.  (They used their fotos of our install for their brochure.)  They left our Bilstein Shocks alone - they were not the 'comfort' models and I liked their control.  Directional stability was about as good as one could hope for.  The passing of overtaking 18 wheelers was reduced to our noticing them as they passed the driver's side window.  Steering correction was no longer needed.  Cornering became an issue of where we wanted to place the RV in the lane, rather than wondering if we could keep it between the lane markers.   'Bunp Steer', however,  was not eliminated.  When experiencing a rolling bump during a corner, it still resulted in some increased steering wheel turning force being required.  It was about half on what we had been experiencing and definitely not as good as we experienced with the Steer Safe.  Also, our revised chassis suspension now had a noticeable 'push' in level corners.  The power steering took care of the steering wheel force and the primary manifestation was increased outer front tire noise in a corner.  This in 30 to 50 mph corner speed.  It was not bad, just noticeable.  (Our front tire pressure was per the Michelin chart for the heaviest front wheel static actual load weight and is within the Ford limits.)   We were happy enough, though, so we decided to leave well enough alone.

That turned out to be the right choice, as after a few more years we accomplished our RV travel goals and sold our Mid Bath to a family who was moving to a later model Lazy Daze.  I'd say that without qualification, Henderson's knows what they are doing and is without peer at accomplishing objectives for a customer.  (Kinda like Lazy Daze, perhaps not including End Caps and Paint Bubbles.)

'Best,
Don McGlothlen,
ex 2001 LD Mid Bath
Re: Steer Safe Stabilizers & sway bars
Reply #7 –
Quote from: Jo Blackmore  - 
Is Bilstein Shocks the best as I've read? or are they a rough ride? I see Andy got Koni. Hope I can find some info as I want to take a trip to OR. this month. Also if anyone lives in the San Fernando Valley who may know of a place or someone to have this checked out. Thanks everyone..

Jo
2006 27'RB

We had the Koni FSD shocks installed on ours just about a month ago. We had the original Ford shocks which had 53K on them. No modifications to suspension or any other mods to steering. In our view the Konis do smooth the ride and were worth the cost. Wish we had done it a long time ago.

We used All Wheel in Redding, CA and in my view, having used both, they are quite comparable to Henderson's in Grants Pass.

Other than that I don't have an answer for the rough ride.

Jim
Re: Steer Safe Stabilizers & sway bars
Reply #8 –
Quote from: Jim & Gayle  - 
We had the Koni FSD shocks installed on ours just about a month ago. We had the original Ford shocks which had 53K on them. No modifications to suspension or any other mods to steering. In our view the Konis do smooth the ride and were worth the cost. Wish we had done it a long time ago.

We used All Wheel in Redding, CA and in my view, having used both, they are quite comparable to Henderson's in Grants Pass.

Other than that I don't have an answer for the rough ride.

Jim

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the info on the shocks. Im going to take the LD over to a shop in San Gabriel, CA. It was recommended from a guy on the LD site here and Vince from LD told him about it. I want them to check everything out. Like I mentioned in my last post  "The shaking was so bad that when I got home & went inside the rig, the TV had came off the holder." Afterreading some of the post I noticed where Larry had a similar experience. Larry stated on Jan. 2011 "A few weeks ago, we where driving up I-5 when we hit a section of rough road that caused the LD to start rocking violently side to side, something we have never experienced." Mine was not rocking side to side, but it was "Violently shaking". Maybe the same thing. Larry mentioned in his post that he found the top shock bushing was torn in half. He also mentioned tighting the screw on top but said it was a bitch.. my words.. to reach. :(  Now this was with Bilstein Shocks. I have no idea what shocks I have. Im guessing they are the original ones on the 2006 LD 27' with 41,500 miles on it. I'm taking her in next week. Thanks again Jim..

JO
Re: Steer Safe Stabilizers & sway bars
Reply #9 –
Don, that's a heckuva write up. Thanks for sharing your knowledgeable experience! I wonder if you, or others, might offer some insight to what Paul mentioned as "loosey goosey" steering.

Not being familiar with the handling characteristics of the Ford E450 (or class C RV for that matter), initially I was surprised by the "sloppy" steering in that when traveling down the road, the steering wheel has ~ 1/16 or so of play to either side of center.

The steering doesn't pull to either side when braking, front tires show no abnormal wear (with ~ 20k miles on them), there's no "clunking" or "rattle" that's normally associated with ball joint failure and the steering doesn't display the "slop" that occurs anywhere throughout the turning radius that usually comes with stripped tie rods. So I wonder if this "loosey goosey" steering is inherent to the E450 given that it was designed to be used with long, heavy payloads where you wouldn't necessarily want "tight" steering (as with smaller vehicles)? My experience thus far has been with F series (2wd & 4wd) and they do not exhibit this.

I haven't given jacked up the front end for a detailed inspection, but will be doing so in the near future. Experience and insight is greatly appreciated...oh and she has 86k on the clock.
Ray
Now doing without...
Re: Steer Safe Stabilizers & sway bars
Reply #10 –
Igoslow,
Mine is a 92 e350, so that's a little difference to most others. "Loosely goosey" is a technical term :) I had to move the wheel about an eighth of a turn before anything happened. It was like driving a 65 Buick. Going down the road I was sawing back and forth on the wheel to keep between the lines. When turning, the steering wheel returned to center, more or less, most of the time. The input to steering was very soft. Thus, side winds and bow waves from passing trucks required a lot of steering input to keep going in a straight line. Wander is another characteristic.  At least that's my definition. And no, my 97 nor 05 F350 has none of this. It reminded me of a 68 F500 I used to drive that had similar steering.

A big part of getting steering right is weight distribution. Plenty of threads here about that. Another is proper tire inflation, based on the weight per wheel. Also plenty here on that. In my case I ran with full tire pressure, and the rear end sway and waggle (more tech talk) was pronounced. Went to the Michelin inflation table and let out air, and the difference was pronounced. My weight distribution was acceptable, so it really impressed on me the importance of proper tire inflation.

all my suspension and alignment was up to spec.  The steering box needed a little tightening. The SafeTSteer helped then, and the Konis, and sway bar were magic.

 
Paul
'92 Mid Bath
Re: Steer Safe Stabilizers & sway bars
Reply #11 –
"The SafeTSteer helped then..."
----
AFAIK, the two steering stabilizer units that fit the E-450 (andE-350) Ford chassis are the Safe-T-Plus and the SteerSafe. Each is a different technology, but it's easy to see how the two names can meld themselves into a whole new, but non-existent, product!  ;)
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Steer Safe Stabilizers & sway bars
Reply #12 –
Yes, your right. Safe T Plus Steering Control is the correct name according to my invoice. Long hot day.
Paul
'92 Mid Bath
Re: Steer Safe Stabilizers & sway bars
Reply #13 –
I have the RV Consumer Group database and they show that the 31 foot version of Lazy Daze may not need any steering help.  They do show the other models needing it as has been reported in this thread.  Can any owners of a 31 footer chime in on their experience?
Chesapeake, VA
Re: Steer Safe Stabilizers & sway bars
Reply #14 –
Just a cautionary note about comparing shocks: one is rarely in a position to do it fairly, because the normal situation is to replace old shocks with new ones.

I can't count the number of times I've read "I replaced Brand X shocks with Brand Y, and wow--what a difference! Brand Y rocks!" The truth is that replacing those old Brand X shocks with new Brand X shocks would probably have resulted in just as much improvement. But since almost nobody replaces new shocks with new shocks of a different brand, we can't trust our comparisons.

That includes me. I recently bought Koni FSD shocks to replace Bilsteins that had 60,000 miles on them. Does the coach ride and handle better? Yes, somewhat. Is it because the Konis are superior? I can't honestly say. I got them on the recommendation of a knowledgable friend, but comparing twelve-year-old shocks with brand new ones is just not meaningful.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Steer Safe Stabilizers & sway bars
Reply #15 –
When I bought my used Lazy Daze and had several upgrades done here in Las Cruces, the mobile RV service I use recommended a Steer Safe. 

Quote
Steer Safe is installed on the vehicle’s front steering arms and clamps on to the front axle. No welding is required. It’s simply bolted on. Steer Safe Stabilizer’s patented oscillatable fulcrum bar makes it the only true steering stabilizer on the market. It provides up to 400 pounds of preset tension on each front wheel working against any outside forces, helping to keep the front wheels pointed straight, even in a blowout situation.

Unlike hydraulic shock absorber stabilizers that hook onto a vehicle’s tie rod, Steer Safe offers protection from the front wheels to the steering gear box. No extra steering effort is required lessening driver fatigue. Maintenance is not required because Steer Safe is equipped with Delrin bearings which never require servicing.

Larry (the RV guy) has been in the business for over twenty years, and is quite honest (as well as being an excellent technician.)  In my opinion, I'm quite happy I opted for the add-on as it adds another layer of safety (like a TPMS), and I feel adds steering stability. 

It surprises me somewhat to read the negative opinions of some when referring to the system.  Here are some other reviews (although older):

Steer Safe - iRV2 Forums

As with anything else in life, your experience may vary.

Quote from: Ian & Jean  - 
Have been thinking about adding Steer Safe to our 2015 MB because of the liveliness of the steering caused by road imperfections and concern about what might happen with a front tire failure.  Would appreciate you thoughts and experience.
Cheryl (a.k.a. Desert Diva)
1998 Lazy Daze (26.5 mid-bath)
2002 Honda CR-V
Re: Steer Safe Stabilizers & sway bars
Reply #16 –
One of LDy Lulubelle's previous families had added a Safe-T-Plus.   I originally thought my difficulties were due to being a novice driving something so big, but eventually realized she needed alignment (she was pulling to the right & tire wear was pointed out at the Escapees Boot Camp in March 2015); alignment was done at Mid-Way Ford in Kansas City.  Mid-Way said they couldn't do a proper alignment with the stabilizer (they seemed to be of the same mind as the Mothership is about Eternabond), & fortunately it wasn't welded on, so off it came.  Overtime it seemed like she was pulling to the left; I had her realigned at Merle Kelly Ford in Chanute, KS, when I was having some other work done at the nearby KS RV Center.  Jake, the service manager at Merle Kelly showed my that bolts hadn't been tightened properly, which was why the alignment was out of whack (sorry, I can't figure out how to move the video he showed me--or even a still photo--from my mail to here   :-[  duh  ).

Anyway, long story ends with LDy Lulubelle drives great now, I don't feel a need for the stabilizer, and after reading the various discussions, it will probably just remain in my stash of stuff out at the farm, in case of a future change of heart.  YMMV  Good luck with the decision process.

Lynne


Lynne
LDy Lulubelle, Green '05 31' TB
Lilly, the 4-Legged Alarm
Re: Steer Safe Stabilizers & sway bars
Reply #17 –
Quote from: Lynne Broyles-Greenwood  - 
One of LDy Lulubelle's previous families had added a Safe-T-Plus.  
alignment was done at Mid-Way Ford in Kansas City.  Mid-Way said they couldn't do a proper alignment with the stabilizer (they seemed to be of the same mind as the Mothership is about Eternabond), & fortunately it wasn't welded on, so off it came.  [/quote
Quote from: Lynne Broyles-Greenwood  - 
One of LDy Lulubelle's previous families had added a Safe-T-Plus.  
alignment was done at Mid-Way Ford in Kansas City.  Mid-Way said they couldn't do a proper alignment with the stabilizer (they seemed to be of the same mind as the Mothership is about Eternabond), & fortunately it wasn't welded on, so off it came. 
The tech didn't understand how the Safe T Plus works. It doesn't effect the alignment at all.
It's main function is to forcefully center the steering. It also has a stabilizer, a shock-like device that dampens some of the steering impacts before they reach the steering box, the most fragile part of the steering system. 
If it caused problems, while being aligned, simply loosening the clamps, on the drag link, would temporarily disconnect the Safe T Plus.
It would need to be adjusted and tightened afterwards, simple to do if you understand how it works.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Steer Safe Stabilizers & sway bars
Reply #18 –
Before replacing any of your shocks, make sure the top bushings are good and tight.
All shocks, no matter the make, have twin bushings on the top of each shock. The bushings compress over time and get loose. It doesn't matter if the bushings are rubber or polyurethane, they all compress.
The result is limited damping and the feeling that the shocks are bad. The front suspension has very limited suspension travel and is sensitive to loose bushings. A little slop is very noticeable.
A part of the problem is that the bushings are not that large, being the same size used on some passenger car shocks.
Bushings that will last the life of a car can loosen quickly, when used on a 14,000 pound RV.

Many LDs. with Factory installed Bilsteins, have suffer blown bushings on the front, driver's side bushing,
My guess is they were never tightened fully at the Mothership, due to the difficulty of accessing the top nut.
At first glance, it looks impossible but it can be done.
The trick is to use an open end wrench on the top nut and hold it still while rotating the body of the shock. Most shocks have a narrow, hex shape near the top of the shock. A narrow valve-adjustment wrench or a thin bicycle wrench both work.
Shock bushings | Flickr

If the shocks have more than 30,000 miles on them, give tightening a try,  good chance you will feel a difference.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Steer Safe Stabilizers & sway bars
Reply #19 –
Many of the Class A gas rigs are offering Sumo Springs for better stabilization.  Has anyone installed these on their LD?
Ross Taylor
2017 MB
Re: Steer Safe Stabilizers & sway bars
Reply #20 –
Larry, your notes on shock bushings and excellent photos on Flickr are exactly why this is the best forum ever, and you are an MVP contributor. Thank you.
Paul
'92 Mid Bath
Re: Steer Safe Stabilizers & sway bars
Reply #21 –
Thanks Larry for the info and photos.

Won't need to put the knowledge to use for a while, but it's good to know its there when I need it.

Kent
2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: Steer Safe Stabilizers & sway bars
Reply #22 –
"The tech didn't understand how the Safe T Plus works. It doesn't effect the alignment at all.
It's main function is to forcefully center the steering. It also has a stabilizer, a shock-like device that dampens some of the steering impacts before they reach the steering box, the most fragile part of the steering system. 
If it caused problems, while being aligned, simply loosening the clamps, on the drag link, would temporarily disconnect the Safe T Plus.
It would need to be adjusted and tightened afterwards, simple to do if you understand how it works.

Larry"

Thx, Larry

Your info confirms, after my experience with Merle Kelly Ford in Chanute, KS, that I won't be returning to Mid-Way Ford in Kansas City for service.

Lynne
Lynne
LDy Lulubelle, Green '05 31' TB
Lilly, the 4-Legged Alarm
Re: Steer Safe Stabilizers & sway bars
Reply #23 –
FWIW
We bought our '89 TK with Steer Safe or Steer Straight already installed. I thought the paperwork said Steer Straight but I'm frequently known to be wrong :-). The previous owner had a front tire blowout and almost lost control. I have nothing to compare ours to but I've had three front tires blow out at 50+ MPH and never had trouble holding the wheels straight. The springs do clank on turns but we can put up with that.

Karen
Re: Steer Safe Stabilizers & sway bars
Reply #24 –
"The trick is to use an open end wrench on the top nut and hold it still while rotating the body of the shock. Most shocks have a narrow, hex shape near the top of the shock. A narrow valve-adjustment wrench or a thin bicycle wrench both work."
---
Larry, the body of the shock rotates counterclockwise to tighten (while the wrench is holding the nut), yes? (Yes, I'm well aware of the "righty, tighty, lefty, loosey" reminder, but since I have perception issues, just making sure!)



2003 TK has a new home