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Topic: Towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Too much??? (Read 372 times) previous topic - next topic
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Towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Too much???
Yahoo Message Number: 159482
I bought a 2007 Lazy Daze 26.5 mid-bath with Banks Power. Now we want to buy a toad. We like the 2011-2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee that weighs up to 5,400 pounds depending on engine/4x4/trim/etc. options.

The hitch receiver on my Lazy Daze is welded on, but doesn't have any indication of weight ratings. There is a "Husky" 6-pin electrical outlet.

Two questions: Is the receiver and/or the 6-pin outlet stock from Lazy Daze or are they after-market? Any thoughts about towing this much weight?

Thank you!

Eric
Re: Towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Too much???
Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 159483
It is covered in the manual. The maximum towing weight is 4,000, with max hitch weight of 350 (not sure on the hitch). Frankly, with the way the bumper and hitch are attached, I would want to stay well under that number. My toad (Honda Fit) weighs in around 2500. It works fine.

The normal connector on the LD is only four pins, so yours apparently was changed out.

-Dave '06 MB, Indianapolis (currently working in Australia, LD is at home, so I can't check further)
Re: Towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Too much???
Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 159484
That much weight is pushing your GCWR. Unless LD had changed their design after 2002, they only rate the receiver for 4,000 lbs in a straight pull (3,500 for a load with tongue weight like a trailer). I'd only do this with an upgraded tow receiver, preferably tied directly to the frame. In 2002, our LD came with a 4 pin connector mounted in the faux rear cover. I upgraded it to a 6 pin to add a charge line and a control line for a US Gear brake system. Many people mount a regular 7 pin tow connector below the bumper. You would certainly want an auxiliary towing brake for that much toad.

We have a 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland that we like, but we tow it with a large DP.

Art
Art and Barbara
Settled in Atterdag Village of Solvang
2015-2022 fulltime in a 2016 Tiffin Allegro Bus 37AP
2002-2015 2002 LD MB
Art's blog
Re: Towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Too much???
Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 159486
Eric-

I believe the hitch rating is listed in the owners manual. If not, and no label is present, you could call the factory and ask them.

My expectation is you'll find it's limited to 5,000 pounds or less. The 2009 specs say 4,000 pounds (see note under GCWR, page 10 of the specs).

Mark
Former owner, 31-foot gas Class A
Former owner, 1997-8 mid-bath
Re: Towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Too much???
Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 159487
Dave,

My wife and I are also looking for toad vehicle. Your Honda Fit sounds like a good choice. Assume you can't flat tow this model so do you use a dolly? If so, any advice on brands/models?

John
Re: Towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Too much???
Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 159493
The Fit is towable thru the 2013 model year, with auto. The manual is still towable I believe. For our 2013 Fit auto base model I installed Blue Ox baseplate and towbar, and SMI brake system.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: Towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Too much???
Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 159498
We tow a 2009 Honda Fit Sport (hat tip to Andy Baird), equipped with Roadmaster baseplate, TowDaddy wiring harness and SMI Stay-in-Play Duo braking system, same as Steve. Being light and small outside (but big inside), it's a great match for an LD.

Mark
Former owner, 31-foot gas Class A
Former owner, 1997-8 mid-bath
Re: Towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Too much???
Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 159500
On my 2005 MB the hitch receiver was bolted to the rear bumper and frame extension. The "tow electrical" connection was a 4pin connector mounted in the faux spare wheel cover. The rating for the hitch receiver was 4000 lbs. I towed a 2000 Jeep Cherokee (not Grand Cherokee) that weighed about 4K for over 100K miles. I had a Banks Kit installed on the coach. Really liked the Banks in the mountains (we did the Rockies a lot). Without the Banks you were forced to climb hills with the big trucks or even slower. With the Banks you could pass the trucks going up hill.

It sounds like your coach has had modifications to both the hitch receiver and electrical connector.

Doug
Re: Towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Too much???
Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 159501
To be fair, while the Honda Fit is a pleasure to tow (and to drive), it's no more an alternative to a Jeep than a paring knife is an alternative to a hatchet. The Fit is basically a city car, with just five inches of ground clearance. Someone like Eric who is considering a Jeep presumably wants the ability to drive on more rugged terrain than city streets, and thus would not be looking for something like a Fit.

I agree with those who've said that the 5,400-pound weight Eric cited (and that's without the gear he'd inevitably be loading into the car) is way too much for the LD's standard hitch mount. He'd need to do some really serious beefing up before he could consider towing such a load, and robust auxiliary brakes for the car would be a must.

As an alternative, Eric might consider a Subaru Forester. While it won't go everyplace that a kitted-out Jeep will go, it will go a lot more places than you can take a Fit! I speak as one who has owned and towed both a 2009 Fit and a 2014 Forester.

Andy Baird
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Too much???
Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 159503
We are currently towing a 2003 Jeep Wrangler about 3800 lbs with a 92 mb E350 chassis. The E450 will do better but that seems like really pushing the envelope. Just because you could doesn't mean you should!
2004 MB
Re: Towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Too much???
Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 159504
Very good points Andy! To add, a Honda CRV also makes a good "city toad" with minor excursions.

Gary
2007 30' TB
Re: Towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Too much???
Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 159505
With the 2015 model (mid-2014), Honda changed the Fit auto transmission to a CVT, which is not towable. The manual transmission is still towable. If you want to flat tow an automatic, it must be 2013 or older (there were no 2014 Fits). Mine is a 2011.

Personally I would never tow a vehicle that required a dolly, you do not need the additional dead weight. There are so many good choices for flat towing, it makes no sense to consider anything else IMO.

But Andy is right. A Honda Fit is no Jeep

-Dave '06 MB, Indianapolis
Re: Towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Too much???
Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 159507
We have pulled our 2011 CRV about 15K miles so far w/o problem, max wt on it has been 3800# (using as extra storage).
Had 7 pin wire harness installed when built. Roadmaster Falcon all terrain towbar, roadmaster baseplate, SMI brake system.
Heading out next month for another 10K or so.

CRV has been on some back roads and 'semi-roads' at Anza Borrego SP Ca and elsewhere without problems (so far). Am considering a jeep wrangler in the future for more of that. As I recall, 4WD doesn't get stuck less, just worse.

YMMV

Joel& Mary 2013 31 B / 2011 CRV Towd

Joel & Terry Wiley
dog Zeke
2013  31 IB   Orwan   / 2011 CRV Tow'd LWEROVE
Re: Towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Too much???
Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 159509
One other consideration is where are you getting the weight numbers for these vehicles.

We have a 2011 Subaru Forester which we picked for ground clearance and weight. It is the base model and the claimed curb weight is 3,250. We carry two bikes and bike rack plus odds and ends. I have weighed it twice with a full tank of gas and loaded as described and each time the weight has been just under 3,800 pounds. Prior to the Subaru we had a Chevy HHR which claimed weight below 3,200 but found the same thing when we weighed it.

Granted, we full time so we probably carry more stuff in our car than the average owner but I suspect that the real world weight of the vehicle you tow would surprise most of us.

Jim C
Re: Towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Too much???
Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 159511
"Frankly, with the way the bumper and hitch are attached, I would want to stay well under that number. "

We have towed our 4000-lbs Jeep Cherokee for over 60,000 miles, behind our 23.5' FL.
At a total weight of over 17,000-lbs, I do not want a heavier rig.

The stock hitch and bumper are barely adequate for 4000-lbs, without serious reinforcing.
I have seen and experienced failures of both the hitch and rear bumper's mounting hardware.
We almost lost the Jeep when the four 1/2" bolts, holding the bumper to the frame extensions, loosened, with two falling out. Only the small 1/4" bolts that secure the bumper to the rear wall of the LD, remained intact.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157647765653660/

The receiver hitch is bolted to the bumper with, once again, inadequate hardware.
One of LD's steel fabrication contractors told me that LD had specified hardware too small for the stresses of heavier toads. Several receiver hitches have broken the undersized bolts.
The cure is to replace the bolts with the next size bigger and then to upgrade from Grade-5 to the stronger Grade-8 hardware, including nyloc lock nuts.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157605167526411 Welding can also be of help.

To exceed the 4000-lbs towing limit, I would want additional steel added from the chassis's frame to the bumper, to be installed by an experienced bumper shop. I would want everything welded together.

Today, few and fewer cars make acceptable toads. Older Jeep Grand Cherokees weighted 4000-lbs but, like many people, gained a lot of weight as it matured.
The tiny toads, such as the Fit or Fiat, tow great but have limited utility once the pavement ends.
I have heard of and see then stuck on steep driveways, in potholes, even in parking lots, they are miserable off-pavement machines.
An older CRV or a manual Subaru both have bigger tires and better ground clearance and would be decent choices for moderate back road exploration. Equip them with LT tires (Light truck) with a mud and snow tread for better durability and traction in loose conditions.

My choice, if not a Jeep, would be an older Subaru, equipped with skid plated (easily available), good tires, a small lift and high-end shocks (for off road comfort).

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Too much???
Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 159519
Signing in here. We have a 96 23.5. (E350) The manual states that we can tow the 3K weight with the existing hitch. With a modified hitch we can tow 7K.
We went to a fabricator and had an undercarriage hitch put on the rig($170). Our Toyota Avalon is 3600# curb weight (but we tow it lightlyloaded - our rig is also underweight). It is paid for etc. We bought a second hand top level car kaddy dolly 500# unloaded weight.

Most of the time we don't know we have it. Yes there is some trepidation over going thru Utah NPs. We are currently in CA from Vt. Our biggest challenge has been the Appalachians which we seem to have gone over and back, over and back etc. We hit a surprise 19% grade in Branson. (That was fun-not) We do wish we had more power, Art has become a genius in down shifting but frankly a new lighter weight toad is not in our budget.
We did consult with Ford (the service managers' father owned the rig for 13 years) and our respected home rv dealer before doing this.
Sandy 96 TK Vermont
Re: Towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Too much???
Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 159527
Sandra,

We went through the towing issue last year with our 1997 23.5 TK,(E350 also). The hitch was fine for "pulling" a toad, but had limited tongue weight capacity. A hitch dealer in the San Diego area made a custom hitch that actually extended the chassis frame back to the bumper. We tow our sailboat, and it comes in at ~4,600 Lbs, with several hundred pound tongue weight. The RV tows the boat beautifully, and we towed the boat to Florida and back to San Diego last year. You can feel the boat back there when starting out, and a little when stopping. We noticed no difference in the engine operating temperature on the scan gauge from the temperatures we see when we're not towing, thanks to the larger transmission cooler the original owner installed. The hardest part of the trip was coming back into California climbing the mountains out of El Centro on westbound I-8. Next time I'll take the longer route up I-10 through PHX.

Don
Towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Too much???
Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 160207
Hi Everyone,

Eric (Original Poster) here...We're still struggling to find that special something that meets our daily driving needs/wants with what our LD can tow pretty well. Our toad will be my wife's daily driver to/from work, and she definitely wants an upscale used SUV.

As a reminder, we have a 2007 26.5 MB (with E450). The LD specs sheet, for 2007, shows a GCWR of 20,000# and a WWV (Wet Weight of Vehicle = includes full gas, full fresh water, and full LP, but without passengers/supplies) of 11,585#. So the difference is 8415#. Yes, I'll take from that the passengers (800#), towing equipment (200#), and supplies (1500#) - after subtracting all of these, I'm still left with 5915# of towing capacity, assuming the hitch receiver is rated for at least that amount. LD says that it's ok to tow up to 4000# with the stock hitch bolted to the bumper; however, in my case, the prior owner changed the hitch receiver to one that is welded on to the frame....Unfortunately, that's all I know about the receiver as there are no indications on it to indicate it's towing capacity.

We're looking at one toad that is about 4500# (Lincoln MKX) and another that is about 5400# (Jeep Grand Cherokee). I know the 4500# is preferred (no brainer there), but we want to know your thoughts about how well the LD will tow these two toad options.

Of course, all suggestions/comments are helpful...

Thank you! Eric
Re: Towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Too much???
Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 160219

Eric,

One other factor that you might not be aware of is that there is a derating of the GCWR with altitude. This is often overlooked as its not in the LazyDaze owners guide (or at least I havent seen it there). Its in the Ford Owners Manual that comes with the E450 chassis. The GCWR is reduced by 2% for each 1000 feet above sea level according to the Ford Manual. Thus, in your example, the apparent 5915 lb towing capacity is reduced to 2715 lbs at 8000 ft elevation (400 lbs per 1000 ft).

I suspect theres quite a bit of engineering padding in that derating factor, and it also applies to a worst case scenario. The worst case for a gas engine is high temperatures and low barometric pressure and a really steep hill. So, trying to go over a high pass in the West in the afternoon just as a thunderstorm is about to hit may be the worst situation.

I have actually experienced this limit in my 2007 Midbath. My rig only had 15000 miles or so on it at the time. I tow my 2008 Jeep Wrangler. My Jeep has a hardshell, and with my stuff in it weighs out at around 3900 lbs. I was traveling over highway 12 in south central Utah over Boulder Mountain, just south of Capitol Reef National Park on my way to Escalante. That road has a couple very steep sections just south of Singletree campground. The grades (according to my Topo software) reach 20.5% and 18.7% for two sections of a few hundred feet in length. It was probably about 70 degrees and a nice (normal, not high or low) barometric pressure. The steep sections occur between 8550 and 8670 feet. Because I was traveling by myself (and Im a weight Nazi), my actual net CCC was larger than the figures you gave.

But, what happened on this trip is that my rig slowed down; WAY down, on these sections. At one point it got down to around 5mph or less and I thought it'd stall out. Fortunately, the steep part ended and the speed went up. Pretty scary as its really hard potentially to get out of that situation while towing. You'd have to hope you could release the tow bar with the weight of the Jeep on it on that steep a slope.

This scared me enough that Im now super careful to check out routes that are at relatively high elevation to see what the grades are. I like to baby my LD! Admittedly, 20% is really unusual, but I suspect that the Mountain Directory doesnt list highway 12s grade as that high (I dont have my copy with me right now to check). The reason is that the overall grade between 8300 and 8800 is only about 7%, but it has ups and downs, and the ups are REALLY steep, albeit only a few hundred feet long.

My current strategy, which I employed on my last trip over Boulder Mountain is a little unique. What I did was drive up to Singletree campground, park the RV, and disconnect the Jeep. Then, I drove the Jeep up the steep part of the road with my Bianchi bicycle on the bike rack on the back of the Jeep. Then, I parked the Jeep at Oak Creek CG, about 7 miles up the road and then rode the bike back down the mainly downhill route to the waiting RV. Then I stuck the bike in the RV and drove it back up to the Jeep. The side benefit is that it was a great bike ride!

You could plan to accomplish the same sort of thing if youre traveling with your wife. You could unhitch the toad and one of you could drive the RV, one the toad. This is what most people do on tricky or steep roads and it works fine. The point of my reply is just to make you aware of the fact that you need to really scope out any mountain roads you plan to drive before you run into trouble. As an example, the steep parts of the Boulder Mountain road are not really indicated by any signage, you just suddenly find your rig going slower and slower and slower

Mike
Re: Towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Too much???
Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 160222
Mike-

Your arithmetic doesn't seem correct. Two percent of 4,000 pound rating is 80 pounds. A reduction of two percent per 1,000 feet would mean 640 pounds of reduction for 8,000 feet, not 3,200 pounds.

I could be in error, though. As I age, there's no end to simple arithmetic errors I can make.

Mark
Former owner, 31-foot gas Class A
Former owner, 1997-8 mid-bath
Re: Towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Too much???
Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 160225
His starting point was the GCWR of 20,000#, not the towing capacity.

Linda Hylton
Linda Hylton
Re: Towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Too much???
Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 160227
Eric

I have set up many LDs for towing and have towed our 4000-lbs for over 65,000 mile, behind our 2003 23.5' FL. A few folks have wanted to maximize the towing capacity, as you do.
None have been please with the outcome, after towing for a few thousand miles. Just because it looks possible on paper, it doesn't meant is the right decision.

On our trips to Colorado, we have found high altitude grades where the rig will barely crest the summit, sometimes at speeds as low as 5-MPH. Last summer we climb a short 1/2 mile upgrade in the Grand Mesa area, along with another LD who was towing. Both of us hit the base at 20-mph and just barely made up to the top, with both of the rigs slowing as they went up. Neither would have gone more than a few hundred more feet before they have come to a standstill.
Yes, you can disconnect and have second driver take the toad up separately but that gets to be a hassle, especially in poor weather or with frequent grades. Even so, we have done it occasionally, when a very long and steep upgrade is approaching. Can't say it's a joy to do and it isn't a good option when out solo.

There is a reason why LD limits the towing capacity to 4000-lbs, it just isn't a good idea to run any piece of equipment at or near it's full capacity, assuming your want a long life for it.
If a SUV in wanted, I suggest find a late model Honda CRV, one with a true automatic transmission (not a CVT). Manual transmission Subarus make decent toads too. and can be had in premium editions.

If a true luxury SUV is needed, you might want to reconsider your choice of a LD or any Class C, they just don't have the power for enjoyable cruising in the mountainous West, pulling overweight toads and/or trailers.
One other thing to consider, I have found most listings for passenger car weight to be low. Find the model your choice and go weigh it before buying, making sure to compensate for what is most likely an empty fuel tank and whatever gear you will permanently carry in it.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Too much???
Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 160230

There are always trade offs to acquire the situation that one desires. Additional possibilities for getting the desired solution:

1) Buy a lightweight toad, separate from the vehicle that wife requires, to use with your motorhome.

2) Have the second driver ALWAYS drive the toad. (Assuming a second driver is available.)

Scenario 1) allows you both to be in the cab of your motorhome, and allows you to use the Lazy Daze as your RV. Probably cheaper than buying a more powerful RV to be able to pull a larger toad load. Bonus - the wifes luxury vehicle will NOT be subjected to the hazards that are present when used as a toad, and she can have any model that she wishes for her personal transportation.

Scenario 2) is what we do, so I am prejudiced. Our toad is a fully-loaded Sportsmobile camper van. This has worked out well for us in a number of ways for fourteen years - accompanying a full-up 40-foot DP and a Lazy Daze RB!

Admittedly, Scenario 2) is not acceptable for many, particularly those who travel a lot of miles, or for a solo, but it has suited our situation to a T ! (T is for Toad, yah?).

Virtual hugs,

Judie http://dorrieanne.wordpress.com
Re: Towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Too much???
Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 160231
I have towed our Honda CR-V and before that, a '95 Accord over many passes in the West in our '02 31'. Fully loaded and heading E on I-70, cresting on the W side of the Eisenhower tunnel at 11,000', the LD is down to about 20 mph in the lowest gear and groaning heavily. I am always happy to be at the top because any farther and and I'm convinced I'd come to a stop. The westbound grade on the E side is not as bad. Since I have been over so many of the same passes in West in the last 14 years of ownership, I know I can make them. However, with any towed vehicle over about 3500 lbs, I'd be questioning.

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB