2016 model year... changes February 05, 2016, 09:52:33 am Yahoo Message Number: 158522Hi Group,We've been thinking about replacing our 2003 Mid-bath for the last couple years; the challenge has been to find something else, class A, travel trailer, 5th wheel, or another C that we would enjoy more or at least as much as our Lazy Daze. Last week, we called Lazy Daze and requested the up to date brochure, order sheet, fabric selections.From studying the features and specifications pages, it appears there have been a few changes: 1. It looks like the 27' Rear Kitchen floor plan was discontinued. 2. 24' models now come standard with the V-10 3. The E450 chassis now has a 6 speed automatic transmission 4.They now install a "high output 75amp solid state converter/charger with temperature compensation 5. The paint is now labeled as "Axalta Dupont Imron polyurethane paint. 6. It looks like the 27'Mid-bath and the 31's are the only models that are available with the barrel chairs.. 7. The blue fabric interior is no longer listed as an interior choice.I don't think this is new for 2016, but I did notice that the solar panel now also charges the chassis battery.If anyone is aware of other changes, please post them. Steve K. (enjoying a snowless winter in Ohio)
Re: 2016 model year... changes Reply #1 – February 05, 2016, 10:41:39 am Yahoo Message Number: 158523That's some interesting news, particularly the six (6) speed transmission. I look forward to hearing a report on how that drives and mpg. The new solid state converter is another interesting change. Does the information mention the brand and model for the converter? I looking forward to following your buying decision and adventure!Ed & Margee Fort Worth
Re: 2016 model year... changes Reply #2 – February 05, 2016, 11:44:54 am Yahoo Message Number: 158524I will be picking one up, 2016 MB, in a few weeks. I'm looking forward to trying out that 6 speed. Does anyone know if the new 6th gear is now a "higher" gear then the old 5th? Frank
Re: 2016 model year... changes Reply #3 – February 05, 2016, 11:50:05 am Yahoo Message Number: 158525There is a solid brownish fabric available for '16. Frank
Bilstein Shocks? Reply #4 – February 05, 2016, 04:21:43 pm Yahoo Message Number: 158528Anybody have an opinion on why LD does not recommend Bilstein shocks for the 24' models? I currently have a 25' Class A built on a E-series chassis (460 block) and it has the Bilstein and I am glad I have them. Thanks Dan
Re: 2016 model year... changes Reply #5 – February 05, 2016, 04:42:23 pm Yahoo Message Number: 158529Hi Ed,Regarding the new converter, there is no mention of the brand.As far as what we are going to do, we are having a difficult time deciding. Our current LD, a 2003 Mid-bath is in such great condition it's difficult parting with it. And in some ways, we like the counter tops, table and flooring that we have now better than the new ones. We do have a lot of miles on it though, around 126,000 as of when we put it into hibernation for the winter. As you can see, it hasn't been sitting around growing moss on the roof!;-)Btw, I admire how diligent you were when you were searching for a rig. Before we ordered our rig, I searched for a gently used mid-bath every day. But as our esteemed moderator Chris knows, we are so fussy and selective, used is hard for us. Right Doc Chris?Steve K.
Re: 2016 model year... changes Reply #6 – February 05, 2016, 05:07:56 pm Yahoo Message Number: 158530Hello Steve K. It sounds like you have a bit of a conundrum, which for the most part I find myself in all the time. I wish I had some guidance from a respected sage, but sadly I've got nothing.Our LD search is one of those stories in which we were just plain lucky! (We can count on one (1) hand the number of times we been "plain lucky.") As you may know, we simply found the perfect owners at a time when they wanted to go in another direction for awhile. In fact, we agreed to give the previous owners first rights of refusal for our LD should something in our life change. And without question, all of us know about that possibility. Let's just hope those life changing events are further down the road for all of us.Ed & Margee Fort Worth
Re: Bilstein Shocks? Reply #7 – February 05, 2016, 05:16:44 pm Yahoo Message Number: 158531Which bilstein's do you have? There have 2, one valved for >10,000 pounds and one for under. My TK comes in right at or under 10,000 so I installed the lighter valved ones and am happy. The heavier valved bilstein's would have been a bit stiff up front and I have read similar complaints from owners with short and light weight E350 chassis.
Re: 2016 model year... changes Reply #8 – February 05, 2016, 05:31:26 pm Yahoo Message Number: 158532"But as our esteemed moderator Chris knows, we are so fussy and selective, used is hard for us. Right Doc Chris?"I wouldn't know where to begin.Chris
Re: Bilstein Shocks? Reply #9 – February 05, 2016, 06:05:35 pm Yahoo Message Number: 158533Craig, I do not know the answer to that, the rig is a 1991 Holiday Rambler Alumi-lite and the shocks were on there when we purchased from the previous owner. They do not seem stiff to me, but maybe Bilstein did not have two versions back then. Guess if we go the LD route (am investigating a replacement for the old gal), I would go with the lighter version. Thanks, your response was a help. I feel that the 24' units drive and ride would suffer without the Bilsteins, even thou LD does not recommend.
Re: 2016 model year... changes Reply #10 – February 05, 2016, 06:29:29 pm Yahoo Message Number: 158534I think that the unit is a Parralax, same make as they have been using. Vince told me that they were now using the 75 amp unit on all models, including units where they used to use the 45 or 55 amp. We have a 2015 27MB which has the a75 amp unit. Our problem is that with the 65 or 75 amp unit to cooling fan is on at all times that you are hooked to shore power and to us that is a noise problem. We are replacing the unit with a 55 amp unit which will not keep us awake at night. When we talked with Todd and Vince about our problem, their only solution was for us to disable the unit. Vince allowed that a 55 amp unit was plenty large enough!Ian & Jean Seattle
Re: 2016 model year... changes Reply #11 – February 05, 2016, 09:52:59 pm Yahoo Message Number: 158538I am puzzled by the statement that the charger/converter that LD is currently installing is still a Parallax unit but with greater output current capability. Last year I was told by a prospective LD buyer that LD was replacing the old Parallax 7155 unit, which they have used for years, with a 3-stage charger/converter of a different brand. Sounds like this may have been only a rumor. I do not understand why LD would start using a Parallax unit with just more current output capability; particularly if they are still installing Life-line Concorde AGM Batteries. As far as I can see Parallax does not make a multi-stage charger/converter. In the FAQ's on their web page they "poo-poo" the concept of a 3-stage charger and claim that "you cannot monitor the battery voltage" and that "the battery will control the amount of charge that it accepts." They imply (or maybe state) that you can leave the charger/controller connected and running at all times without risk of damaging the batteries. The 7155 Series unit specs indicate that they are "fixed output voltage" devices where the output voltage is about 13.85 volts with no load and 13.2 volts with full load. At some point the say that the float voltage is 13.2 volts. Am I missing something here or am I not reading the Parallax specifications correctly? Two years ago I replaced my LD with an SOB. The SOB came with a Progressive Dynamics PD4560K power distribution center; a true 3-atage charger/converter. I had the SOB equipped with the same Concorde Lifeline AGM batteries that LD supplies. I spent a long time talking to both Progressive Dynamics and Concorde about the compatibility of the charger/converter and AGM batteries. The Concorde technical guy told me that you should limit the float voltage for the AGM's to 13.2 volts. Also that they recommended a "bulk" charge voltage about 0.2 volts greater than what was provided by the PD4560K. The lower voltage would not harm the batteries but it would take a little longer to get a full charge. I find it hard to believe that LD would not have done this same investigation before switching to the AGM batteries or moving to a different charger/converter.Doug Baker
Re: 2016 model year... changes Reply #12 – February 05, 2016, 10:12:08 pm Yahoo Message Number: 158539Frank, in message 158524, said he is picking up a 2016 LD "in a few weeks". Perhaps you will be so kind, Frank, to let this group know the skinny on the converter LD now installs.Chris
Re: 2016 model year... changes Reply #13 – February 05, 2016, 10:33:52 pm Yahoo Message Number: 158540Apparently the 7355 series of Parralax has been replaced by the 8355 series, according to Vince.Ian
Re: 2016 model year... changes Reply #14 – February 05, 2016, 10:50:40 pm Yahoo Message Number: 158541I have 2011 24' which originally came with the Ford shocks. Last spring I installed Koni FSD shocks which in my opinion gave superior control to the Ford shocks. There is less roll, bounce, it just feels more glued to the road. I have done all the usual handling mods, the Konis were a huge improvement. I can not vouch for the Bilsteins-comfort or HD, But I can say the Ford shocks were not satisfactory to me on my 24. If the comfort shock is somewhere near the Ford shock, I would go with the HD. I HIGHLY recommend the Koni FSD shocks.
Re: Bilstein Shocks? Reply #15 – February 05, 2016, 11:39:50 pm Yahoo Message Number: 158542I had this same conversation with Steve 14 years ago. He felt the Bilstein shocks were too stiff for the shorter models. I asked about the Bilstein Comfort shocks and he said they had tried them and there wasn't enough of an improvement over the stock shocks to make it worthwhile. I ended up buying his experimental set of Comforts.When we first bought our 2003 23.5' FL, it had the stock Ford shocks. I had the Bilstein Comforts, bought from LD, and a set of standard HD Bilsteins, bought off someone in the forum who hated the way they rode and had replaced them in less than 2000 miles.Over many thousands of miles, I experimented with the three different shocks. For the lighter 23.5' and 24' models, the Comforts provided a ride just a little stiffer than the stock shocks and may be perfect for you. Over time, we found the HDs to be too stiff for the rear of our light 23.5' model. One advantage of either of the Bilsteins, over the stock shocks, is their exceptionally long life. Most last a 100,000 miles or better, just keep the top rubber bushings tight and replace them when they fail.Today, at 93,000 miles, I'm still running the Comforts in the rear and have gone to the HD Bilsteins in the front. Last year I did replace the two front shock bushings, along with the front and rear sway bar bushings. They were the first suspension parts to need attention, everything else is still tight.Larry
Re: 2016 model year... changes Reply #16 – February 06, 2016, 12:04:17 am Yahoo Message Number: 158543"We have a 2015 27MB which has the 75 amp unit. Our problem is that with the 65 or 75 amp unit to cooling fan is on at all times that you are hooked to shore power and to us that is a noise problem. We are replacing the unit with a 55 amp unit which will not keep us awake at night."There are better solutions, replace the converter with one that's Smart and has a quiet, variable speed cooling fan. The 70-amp Progressive Dynamics PD9270 or PowerMax 75-amp Boondocker MP4B both will fit in the location of the original converter. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157603671199053/show A smart converter will run the cooling fan only when needed and at the minimum speed required. It's a lot more tolerable to have a fan the changes speed slowly and does not abruptly turn on and off or run at full speed all the time.Of course, the simplest and cheapest way to stop the noise is to turn the converter off at night and run off the battery.Larry
Re: Bilstein Shocks? Reply #17 – February 06, 2016, 07:47:09 am Yahoo Message Number: 158545Thanks Larry, I need rear shocks and was NOT going to do the comfort this time back there thinking I might want it to be stiffer without a rear swaybar. Now I just have to wait on another shock sale before purchasing them. Craig
Re: Bilstein Shocks? Reply #18 – February 06, 2016, 08:47:05 am Yahoo Message Number: 158546"Today, at 93,000 miles, I'm still running the Comforts in the rear and have gone to the HD Bilsteins in the front. Last year I did replace the two front shock bushings, along with the front and rear sway bar bushings." ---- Ed and I had the "shock conversation" when I ordered my 2003 TK, i.e., "You don't need Bilsteins on the 23.5' !" The rig was delivered with Bilsteins. At that time, the only option was the HD; no "Comfort" shocks. After about 5000 miles, I installed IPD (now Roadmaster) front and rear anti-sway bars and a Safe-T-Plus steering stabilizer; I found the handling and tracking much improved, even on a lightly-loaded 23.5' (under 12,000).The original Bilsteins developed tears in the rear boots and cracks in the bushings, and the bushings in the front shocks pretty much flattened and cracked to the point of uselessness at about 50k miles. After an "adjustment" with Bilstein (shocks were guaranteed), new HD Bilsteins (with polyurethane bushings) were installed all around; these are still in great shape at 94,000 miles.Bilstein HDs work for me; they may not for someone else. Some owners prefer the softer ride of the "comfort" Bilsteins, some prefer Konis, some Monroes, and some are good with the OEM Ford shocks. If I had it to do over, I'd install the same HD Bilsteins.As ever, YMMV.Joan
Re: Bilstein Shocks? Reply #19 – February 06, 2016, 10:56:27 am Yahoo Message Number: 158547"I need rear shocks and was NOT going to do the comfort this time back there thinking I might want it to be stiffer without a rear swayer."CraigNot having a rear sway bar probably means you own a E350. We installed a Hellwig rear sway bar on my brother's E350 24' Winnie and it made big difference in handling, significantly reducing side to side sway. Hellwig Sway Bar 7183 Ford E250 350 RV Van 1 Rear Wheel Rear 1 25"Diam | eBay The Hellwig bar is larger in diameter than the stock on our E450, making it very effective in reducing sway. The front sway bar bushings were fairly easy to change. Luckily they are inexpensive and upgrading to the polyurethane upgrade adds a little extra control.Larry
Re: Bilstein Shocks? Reply #20 – February 06, 2016, 11:09:41 am Yahoo Message Number: 158548JoanSince the front of the short 23.5' and 24' models weight about the same as a 27' or 31' model. The weight varies more in the rear. For this reason, the HD Bilsteins are as appropriate on the shorter models as on the longer ones.The rear is a different story, with the varying axle weights. With a 12-leaf rear spring, there is a lot dampening just from inter-leaf friction, which reduces some bouncing. The rear HDs just rattle the interior too much, for our taste but we do seem to have a habit of finding poor back roads. YMMV2003 23.5' FLLarry
Re: Bilstein Shocks? Reply #21 – February 06, 2016, 11:15:27 am Yahoo Message Number: 158549Larry, That's a better price than the one that has been in my amazon cart for 6 months. Comfort shocks and rear swaybar to match the front it is.
Re: Bilstein Shocks? Reply #22 – February 06, 2016, 11:44:20 am Yahoo Message Number: 158550"The rear HDs just rattle the interior too much for our taste..."--- Gee, Larry, I just thought that's how it was *supposed* to ride! Must be a combination of the horrible "thump, bang, slam" of our native state's roads and my "farm truck" upbringing! ;-)Joan
Re: Bilstein Shocks? Reply #23 – February 06, 2016, 01:10:06 pm Yahoo Message Number: 158551I bought a very nice 2003 RB in 2014 with 85,000 miles on it. To make sure it was road ready, and even though the original OE shocks were good, I replaced all four shocks with "discards" from the Mothership. The price was excellent, on the order of $15/shock with shipping. They came off a 2014 because they buyer wanted SOB shock. I now have 95,000 miles on my RB and am very happy with, the new to me, OE shocks. As an aside, the newer shocks are somewhat larger than the ones that were replaced.Fred 2003 RB
Re: 2016 model year... changes Reply #24 – February 06, 2016, 06:40:48 pm Yahoo Message Number: 158564I looked at the Parallax 8355 info on the Parallax web site, but could not find detailed specifications. They talk about their optional "TempAssure" feature whose primary function appears to be monitoring the battery temperature and adjusting the charge voltage accordingly. Near the end of the feature description they make the rather cryptic comment that it causes the converter/charger to startup in the "boost mode" whenever the unit is turned on and that it remains in this mode for 4 hours. Implication is that this feature makes the unit a multi-stage charger. However, most multi-stage converter/chargers do not remain in the boost (or bulk) mode for a fixed period of time. Instead they monitor battery voltage or charge current and exit the mode when the monitored parameter reaches some value. Will be interesting to hear what converter/charger actually is installed in coaches currently being delivered by LD.Doug Baker
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