Lazy Daze Owners' Group

Prices for older Lazy Daze's

March 22, 2015, 10:47:44 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 151698

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Hello all, first post here.  So, I have read the Pricing Guide posted on here, but I was just looking for some extra feedback.
I am hoping to buy an RV within the next 3-4 months max.  I would love for it to be a 22' Lazy Daze from the early 90's, possibly late 80's.  The price list says those year/size models go for around 8 grand, but doesn't specify in what kind of quality.  Is it reasonable to hope I can pick up a 22' in good condition for around $8000-$11,000 max?  And not only that, but to be able to find one in as short a time frame as 4 months? I live in southern california, where I think i remember reading supply for used ones tends to be much better than average. Also, i've seen a few get posted, but they get picked up so quickly; in a couple weeks the post is gone.  Can you haggle the price on these RVs? Or is the demand so high, that the price the seller sets is usually the one it gets sold for?

Thank you, Paul

Re: Prices for older Lazy Daze's

Reply #2 – March 23, 2015, 11:01:45 am

Yahoo Message Number: 151701

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22' LDs on the Chevy G30 chassis (1981-1998) do come up, and not only in SoCal; I found at least four (various years, prices, locations) when I just did a test search. If this model is what you want, you'll just have to systematically search every "RVs for sale" website, e.g., RV Trader, Oodle, RVOnline, etc., and eBay, Craig's Lists, local newspapers, and dealers' lots and be prepared to travel if you find something interesting.

Obviously, pricing depends on quite a bit on the model year, condition, and location, and because even the later models are "older" rigs, you should be prepared for post-purchase cash outlays for repairs, necessary parts replacements, and upgrades. How *much* cash depends on the initial condition; I strongly suggest having *thorough inspections* done on the coach, engine, systems, appliances, tires, everything. The list of potential trouble spots in older rigs (and newer ones, depending on how diligently a rig has been maintained) is a long one; in particular, damage from undetected *leaks* can be extremely expensive and difficult to repair.

There are board members who own or have owned 22' rigs; they may post with additional advice, information, and experience reports.

Joan

Re: Prices for older Lazy Daze's

Reply #4 – March 23, 2015, 12:43:01 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 151704

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"I am hoping to buy an RV within the next 3-4 months max.  I would love for it to be a 22' Lazy Daze from the early 90's, possibly late 80's.  The price list says those year/size models go for around 8 grand, but doesn't specify in what kind of quality."

Buying any thirty year old vehicle is a gamble, adding a house to it doubles the possibilities of problems.
In the coach, leaks are the big concern, especially in the cabover area. The suggestion to seek a 1990 or newer is a good idea, as the front cap and the real window will leak eventually unless significant maintenance has been done to it regularly for the past few decades.  Look for sags in the ceiling, indicating roof rot.
Check at the base of each wall and under each window for soft spots. An icepick is my favorite tool for finding rot, use it wherever you find a suspicious spot.
Make sure every appliance is operational, have the owner turn the refrigerator on the day before.
Run the water pump, water heater and furnace...all appliances are expensive to replace.
Look at the water pump area for evidence of leaks.

Then there is the Chevy G-30 chassis. The front end is subject to early wear, especially in the drag link, pittman arm and the a-arm bushings. The shocks are mounted at a angle which reduces their effectiveness, Bilstein shocks are a good replacement.
Most have a 350 V-8, with a few having the big 454 engine. Both engines frequently overheat if the cooling system isn't up to stuff. I have found that many older rigs have had engines replaced due to overheating.
Very few 350 V-8 s make it the 100,000 miles mark with the original engine and/or transmission intact.
Late-80s and older LDs had a carburetor, a 3-speed automatic transmissions, with a lack an overdrive. Do not expect much in the way of mileage, it will be a couple MPGs lower than what the newer, heavier models get.
The carburetor is the show stopper in my book, there are not many old mechanics left that know how to work on them, much less are the part kits widely available anymore.
All sort of mechanical parts are getting tough to find for these vintage vehicles and when you do, expect to pay a premium.
They don't build them like they used to (thank goodness), a real benefit for us owners of newer rigs, RV mechanicals were vastly improved in the late 90s and early 2000s. 2003 or newer  are the years of choice for a short LD (22-23.5').
If sticking with an older model, do try to afford a 1991 or newer model, the engines received true fuel injection and a robust overdrive transmission, both adding to the fuel economy and durability of the driveline.

Unless you are the luckiest person around (and most likely you are not), assume that you will need several thousand dollars for repairs, new tires, batteries and a complete maintenance on the driveline.
Antique motorhomes are projects for people with lots of time. patience, mechanical skills, a place to work and stack of cash to fix or replace all the little things that will be worn or broken, from age and miles.
Imagine how most homes would look after 30 years of minimal maintenance, then add the effect of bouncing down the road for many thousands of miles. What does your average 30 year car look and run like?

Do not assume that traveling in an old RV is going to be a cheap way to travel, it isn't for most. You are buying a lifestyle, not a budget travel device.
Saving up for a newer model may be cheaper in the long run.
There are a lot of old LDs in poor condition out there. A few are cherry, most are not.
Do go into this with your eyes wide open and try to keep your emotions in check, it is way to easy to buy a pig that you think can be fixed up for a few bucks.
We have seen too many examples of this on the forum over the years where the new owner find that their new 'dream' rig is actually a near worthless pile of rotted wood and worn out parts

Good luck with your search.

Larry

Re: Prices for older Lazy Daze's

Reply #6 – March 24, 2015, 11:04:12 am

Yahoo Message Number: 151720

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nemoinneverland Mar 22 7:47 PM

wblynch@..., Wow, 8 grand for an excellent condition 90's lazy  daze with solar AND generator.  Sounds like one heck of a deal,  congrats on that find! Hopefully theres more where that came from for  me! Did you have to fork over any extra money for any problems with the  coach post purchase? Or was it good to go, as is, right away?

Hi Paul,
 Well maybe I am the luckiest guy but I think not.  There are lots good ones out there.  Lazy Daze are built really strong and can last a long time.  Keep your eyes out you wil find one.  And you don't need a 2005 or to spend $30,000.
 I found this one on Craig's List, being kept alongside its second owner's house..
 I have been working on motor vehicles for 50 years and can spot a good one instantly.  This one had 135,000 miles but was clean as a whistle.  The seller explained that the first owner often drove it to Massachusetts and back to visit his kids so though it had a lot of miles it didn't have a lot of "use".
 The second owner used it for day trips to the beach and only added 9,000 miles in the 14 years he had it.
 Thsi one was never lived in full-time.  It was like the stove had never even been used.
 The best thng about this camper is it was never modified except for the installation of solar panels and charge controller.  The truck cab did have an engine monitor installed which is like a precursor to the popular Scan Guage used in newer OBD-II trucks.
 The only major expense I've had so far is a new set of Cooper tires that cost $800 at America's Tire.

The truck/cab air conditioner doesn't work and I want to fix that this spring.  Other than that I have installed a 12 volt TV and Blu-Ray player on the back of the wardrobe and a new Winegard antenna.  I wired the TV behind a 12 volt regulator/stabilizer to ensure it doesn't get overpowered.
 I also converted the interior lights to LED's.  I will need to replace the brakes soon and a cooling system clean-out would be helpful.

You will find what you want.

-Bill

Re: Prices for older Lazy Daze's

Reply #8 – March 25, 2015, 03:19:13 am

Yahoo Message Number: 151753

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And one more question, though it is a vague one, but too be honest I am having a conflict of heart and could use some kind of feedback.  Would the lazy daze community here, (i understand there may be some bias haha), say it is worth waiting for a lazy daze model RV.  If i was to find a nice 95'-96' Jamboree or the like class C RV, that I could see myself being happy in, would you advise against buying it and to instead wait out for the Lazy Daze?  I, of course, love the floor layout, interior upholstery, aluminum exterior, and overall look of the Lazy Daze, but what really matters to me is build quality.  It is the build quality reason that has me saying to myself "to hold out for a Lazy Daze".  Is buying a 91' Lazy Daze with 85,000 miles going to be less problematic structurally/mechanically for me than buying a 95'-96' regular class C brand in comparable condition with maybe 55,000 miles?  Is the difference large? I will be using the RV to full time, and would like to keep it for years and years to come.  It will be a home, and I plan to cherish it.

Thank you again, Paul

Re: Prices for older Lazy Daze's

Reply #10 – March 25, 2015, 10:49:30 am

Yahoo Message Number: 151757

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"I will be using the RV to full time, and would like to keep it for years and years to come.  It will be a home, and I plan to cherish it." --- I understand your dilemma; it can be very difficult to come to the most most emotionally satisfying, but still practical, decision. You've received some very sound advice and "real life" reports from those who have bought and/or re-habbed older LDs, often at great expense. The expenses of RV ownership are consistent, even for new/newer rigs in great condition; many people who are contemplating buying an RV, or those are new to the lifestyle, often don't fully realize that participating in this lifestyle is not a "buy it and go down the road" deal, particularly with an older rig with potentially many hidden warts. This caveat applies to LDs as well as to SOBs; despite higher initial build quality, without diligent maintenance, an LD will deteriorate almost as fast as a lesser-quality rig.

Even after initial repairs and/or re-builds to an old(er) rig, outlay is ongoing ("cherishing" costs! ;-)), and if you can't do the necessary repair/parts and components replacement work yourself, you will have to pay to have it done; your post-purchase "fix it/replace it" fund should be well-stocked! And, if you intend to *fulltime* in whatever you eventually find, it's critical that you take the time to learn as much as possible about how to evaluate a "pre-loved" RV, whether a LD or another; this inspection checklist may help define what to look for:

http://changingears.com/rv-checklist-inspection.shtml

Is it possible to find a regularly serviced, well-maintained, leak-free, lower mileage, "everything works", early 90s LD that still has a lot of life remaining? Probably, if one is diligent, selective, prepared to pay more upfront for a rig in good condition, and also understands that one will likely kiss a lot of frogs before finding said rig! In the end, nobody can answer what will work for you except you. Good luck.

Joan

Re: Prices for older Lazy Daze's

Reply #12 – March 25, 2015, 12:19:00 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 151762

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"that is alot of repairs! Sounds like it all was worth it though in the end.  Is that a decent strategy?  To buy at cheap, and then make significant repairs? How long does that kind of repair overhaul take?"

Is that a decent strategy?  Well, IMO, only if you pick the right RV and have the skills to do most of the work yourself or know someone who will do it for free or cheap.
We bought our first LD used, after looking at dozens of them. This was 20 years ago and many of the LDs of the 1980s were even then very well used and in need of major work. Can't imagine how what type of condition most of them are in now.
It can take a LOT of time to restore and MH, many times more than what you may estimate. You also need a stack of available cash to deal with the unexpected. Having a nearby place where you can conveniently park and work on it is also desirable, you will be spending a lot of time there.
And you will always finds many additional little things that need attention, all of this adds up in time and money.

We have seen many on this forum who have bought old rigs, thinking that with a little fix-up they will have a usable RV, only to find that their 'Dream' rig has or will cost a small fortune to get into decent shape.
Many times, when all is said and done, a newer rig, in better shape, could have been afforded.
Add to this that newer LDs are built better than the 1980 and early 90s models and have better drivelines, beginning in the late 90s with the introduction of the V10.
V10 Ford rigs have a longer lifespans than the earlier rigs with Chevy engines.

For some one who has never done this, you should have good estimates on before buying.
Then consider the quality of the work and new parts. Rebuilt engines have a wide range of prices, mostly based on the quality of the remanufacturing. A good percentage of them are junk and do not stand up to the stress of RV usage.
Cooling systems are very critical in older LDs, especially the Chevy-based LDs. Way too many Chevys have fried their engines and transmissions due to the marginal cooling system. Install a transmission temp gauge to monitor its temp. Watch the coolant temp gauge like a hawk in hot weather

When buying an older RV, just like buying a old home, you must realize the entire structure is slowly disintegrating and all of it will eventually need work or replacement. Some things, such as the window mechanisms and  HVAC system fall apart and may not have replacement parts available anymore.
Very few previous owners take care of every little thing so expect any type of problem.

IMO, you should save as much as possible and buy the newest RV , in the best operational condition, you can find. Models needing significant work should be left to those with excellent repair skills, a lot of patience, time and excess cash on their hands. Most of us do not fall into this group.
When finding serious problems in the driveline or coach, it's best to walk away and to keep looking.
You need to ask yourself do I want to travel in or work on a motorhome. An old rig will have you working on it a lot, usually many times more than what you estimated.
Hope its a labor of love for you and not one of hate.

Larry

Re: Prices for older Lazy Daze's

Reply #14 – March 25, 2015, 01:57:31 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 151773

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"You need to ask yourself 'Do I want to travel in or work on a motorhome?' "

All of Larry's advice is good (he's done enough repairs to other people's LDs to know whereof he speaks), but I wanted to single out the above sentence, because it sums it all up so well.

If you have good fix-it skills and a place to work on your rig, and if you're not planning to travel full-time in it, an older rig can work. That's how I got started:with a 16-year-old Chevy-based Lazy Daze from the mid-80s. I put a lot of money into it over the years, but I got a lot of enjoyment out of my RVing vacations.

I even traveled in it full-time for about a year... but by then it was obvious that it was time to upgrade to something newer. I bought a three-year-old Ford-based rig, which is now almost twelve years old. It has had a few problems of its own, but not nearly as many as the Chevy-based LD.

Still, anytime you buy a used truck with a used house built on top of it, you know there are going to be repairs needed. Larry's right: you need to decide how much time and money you're willing to spend on repair projects versus how much time you want to spend traveling.

Of course there's a balance to be struck: if saving up for a newer motorhome in near-mint condition takes you ten years, those will be ten years during which you won't be traveling. At some point you have to take the plunge, if you're not going to put off your RVing dream forever.

Andy Baird

Re: Prices for older Lazy Daze's

Reply #16 – March 25, 2015, 02:16:32 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 151777

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Hello Paul,

You have been given lots of good advice. I'll try to add to that. About 14 years ago I was were you are right now. Based on the info I learned here, I knew I wanted a post-90 model (no real cab-over windows), and I wanted a fuel injected engine, (after '89 with Ford, not sure of the Chevy). I also knew I should get the newest rig I could afford. I ended up with a '91 MB on a Ford chassis.

Regarding looking at other brands, I would highly recommend you do look at them and test drive them. Once you do that, you will quickly see the difference in quality. Once I did that and then looked inside my first LD, it was a no brainer getting a LD. But again like others have said, even a badly maintained LD can be a a bad purchase.

What was important to me when looking; I'm a fairly mechanically inclined person, so I can do lots of things myself. But I also now my limitations. Repairing water damage and replacing an engine were things I did not want to deal with. Of course being safe is paramount too. To that end, when looking, I focused on the coach itself, the engine, tires and braking system. All the other things where things I could deal with without too much trouble or expense. Through the knowledge I gained here and other sources on the net, I learned how to look for water damage and inspect tires. For the engine and brakes, I had a shop do a compression check on the engine and do a complete inspection of the breaks before purchase. With what the seller told me and the records they kept, it was confirmed by the compression check. Which measures how much pressure each cylinder of the engine can hold before it leaks. You want to see a consistent pressure on all cylinders, and the mechanic can tell you what the proper PSI range should be. Its a great indicator on the condition of the engine.

Like was mentioned, you really don't want a carbureted engine. I can't emphasis enough how important that is. You will be much happier if you get a fuel injected model. Problem areas with the Chevy has been noted. The only problems I can think of with the older Fords are the exhaust headers, which have been known to crack and front end alignment issues. Which may require shims to be installed to get things lined up properly.

In regards to searching, I would use www.yakaz.com. It searches all sites and makes things really easy in that regard. You don't need to look through a thousand different craigslist sites and all the various rv selling sites. If you happen to find a rig too far to look at, that looks perfect, I would try to find someone on this list who might be nearby that wouldn't mind looking at it for you. The extra money spent to travel to buy something perfect is worth much more than saving a few hundred dollars buying something lesser out of convenience.

That's all. Good luck.

Victor

Re: Prices for older Lazy Daze's

Reply #18 – March 25, 2015, 02:31:07 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 151779

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We stopped at a parts store 600 miles from home, and I bought a fuel filter.  While Mama made coffee I took the doghouse off and installed the new filter.  An hour after we stopped we were back on the road running like we'd just had a tuneup.

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Re: Prices for older Lazy Daze's

Reply #20 – March 25, 2015, 11:14:36 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 151795

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In a word - love

89 22' TK -1/25/14-  Live in Oregon - Bought from 3rd owner in Cali. Asking $11k and published pics of "Maggie" when she was only 10 yrs old and stated "only 24k miles"! Flew down with son and immediately saw what was expected- Maggie had a 40 ft paint job (looks good from 40 ft), up close the blue stripes looked like running white glue had baked into them. (socal) Carfacts already told us it was 124K miles old. Speedo rolled over.
She also was dripping fluid.
Her drivetrain rrrrrs at acceleration.
On and on and on including expired tags. So do we haggle and chance the 1200 mile drive home? Of course we did(even with exp tags).Dumb luck we did not get stopped.
She had brand new shoes(6), minor upgrades, beautiful interior, roof a/c(no swamp cooler), fridge was serviced previous day and running on gas, oil and tranny fluid new and full, both heaters work, no apparent dry rot except for under kitch window, new T105s(2), and potty/shower worked great.
They produced receipts over the past 14 months that totaled about $5k.
Gave them $8k and drove off to Oregon. One breakdown on the way - alternator - midnite - Coachnet to the rescue but had to find and verify stock at parts store and direct the tow driver to dest. Would have cost $350. Nope, $89/yr.
Averaged 8.73 mpg. @ an avg of 66 mph.
3/25/14 - Done list is - all windows removed and resealed and dry rot repaired(about 4-6 inches below kitchen window(was able to reframe)- about 20 hrs of buffing blue stripes that still look good - total tune up - new flooring(marble looking) - resealed roof with e-bond - re-taped some small pinstripes, resealed door - resealed all gas connections - on and on.
We have had her out about 10 times in the last yr with no problems.
We have done all the work ourselves (64 and 37) and love every min of it. Talk about bonding!! And "Maggie" got her name from my momma who was 89 at the time of purchase and is tickled that I named the rig after her. And at 90 she is going to the Masters' with me for the 15th yr in a row.
So all in all , was it worth it? You decide -

Re: Prices for older Lazy Daze's

Reply #22 – March 26, 2015, 02:14:02 am

Yahoo Message Number: 151797

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Hi everybody, I am the Edd from the Edd and Michele post.
Here are a few words on Motor Home purchasing strategy that we used...good bad or in deferent...
Unless you are going to purchase a late model, low mileage, warrantee'd  motorhome from a reputable dealer, and lay out $30K to $75K, you will be inheriting someone else's problems. Even with a warrantee you may make many trips back to the dealer to get things made right. Buyer beware...

First things first...ask yourself what are you going to use your motorhome for? 49 state tour? Surfing trips to the beach? (We live in Southern California and I am a surfer.) You need to get a very good handle on how hard you are going to flog your beast.
What are your expectations of MH life? Do you need the "Ritz Carlton" accommodations or will "Holiday Inn" accommodations do?

Our strategy of buying a 1980 LD was predicated on informed risk management decisions.
$3,500 initial purchase price at auction after viewing more than 80 photos of the inside and outside. Yes it was a gamble. If it turned out to be not worthy of further investment, we would donate to a charity and lick our wounds and experience a small tax benefit.
After receiving the rig I inspected the running gear, front end bushings, tie rods, all suspension components, visual on the transmission (leaks  etcetera), checked the drive shaft and third member, rear springs, all chassis to MH mountings. Everything good, tight, and dry, no rot, no damage. We performed a visual on all accessible electrical components in the MH and under the dash and found them to be clean and unmodified. It was only then did we decided to go to the next step and make the repairs Michele noted in her original post.
Please note that being a 1980 LD our rig was on a Dodge chassis NOT A CHEVY. This also weighed in on our decision to go forward. (Dodge 361ci are bullet proof.)

In summary we have a fully functioning reliable MH for a little less than $16K. New motor, new carburetor, new HD radiator, belts, hoses, battery, 6 new radial tires. Yes it was a lot of work finding a good place to build your motor and to chase parts. However here in So Cal we have a lot of reputable performance motor builders. (Our rig passed the stringent California smog test.)

With eyes wide open we know we might be chasing leaks every now and then. However, buying a later model MH will be no guarantee that you will not have a leak. Especially if it is not a LD.

Would we prefer fuel injection and granite counter tops...you bet. However, for our intended purpose (surf boards, kayaks, and 3 dogs) our $16K rig is the very best...

I have no qualms racking up mileage on our "paid for" "vintage" MH.  We are happy in our "Holiday Inn" accommodations...With all of our beach "boondocking" we would be happy with "Motel 6" accommodations.   Our rig looks good and runs great and I know the important things are reliable.   We are truly in the bonus.

Have fun out there.

Edd & Michele

Re: Prices for older Lazy Daze's

Reply #24 – March 26, 2015, 11:34:20 am

Yahoo Message Number: 151801

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Hi Paul, We bought a 1998 LD MidBath about eight years ago for full-timing. It's been a blast with very few problems as we put on about 50,000 miles. I love our Lazy Daze which carried two bicycles and two kayaks.  We have added a few extra items to give us more convenience, such as generator, solar, catalytic heater, extra storage space, etc.  Lots of time boondocking in the SW Deserts during the past few years during the winter. My wife, however, says it's time to return to our home town once again in Oregon after traveling about the world for the last 12 years (five years in Europe and Middle East). So we moved into an apt a few months ago in Oregon.

To make a long story short, we plan to sell the LD in a few weeks (about 100,000 miles).  We have friends who want first dibs on it and will list it in April if for some reason they don't follow through.  At this mileage, we found it necessary to replace most of the transmission so it works like new.  For whatever reasons, it seems that the 450 V10 engine is good for about 100,000 miles or so and then needs a rebuild which costs about $3500 from a good Ford Truck Dealership.

With all of the extras, we are estimating the asking price will be about $17,000.

David Roderick (1998 MB LD...Eugene, OR)