2011 TK March 16, 2015, 01:56:55 pm Yahoo Message Number: 151585I've owned my 2011 TK for 3 years this month. It came from the factory with 2 AGM batteries and two 100 watt solar panels. 8 months ago the batteries began fading. Now the charge they hold is almost useless. It is parked in full sunlight while in storage. This seems like a very short life for such expensive batteries. Instead of paying $500 for new AGMs, I was wanting to know if any other member has had my experience and replaced theirs with lead acid Trojans? J
Re: 2011 TK Reply #1 – March 16, 2015, 02:08:48 pm Yahoo Message Number: 151586Did you call Lazy Daze, and if so, what did they have to say. Tom
Re: 2011 TK Reply #2 – March 16, 2015, 02:51:20 pm Yahoo Message Number: 151588"This seems like a very short life for such expensive batteries. Instead of paying $500 for new AGMs, I was wanting to know if any other member has had my experience and replaced theirs with lead acid Trojans? "JEarly failure of AGMs is common. Other than not having to add water, I see no advantage in their use for a stock LD, with the exception of not having to add water periodically. They are great when additional batteries are added, mounted inside the coach, due to their not outgassing hydrogen..I don't anyone who has replaced their AGMs with lead-acid but there is no reason why you couldn't The battery compartment has been reconfigured for AGMs and will need some small changes. I would suggest adding a remote watering system for the new lead-acid batteries to simplify keeping the electrolyte fluid at the proper level. Adding water three or four times a year only takes a few minutes and is a clean activityLarryLD with four Trojan T-105s
Re: 2011 TK Reply #3 – March 16, 2015, 06:20:18 pm Yahoo Message Number: 151589Where do you live? I have only the one panel and in VA near Washington DC the last couple of years was no problem with the panel keeping up. But this past winter I noticed that the batteries were very weak. The solar collector was snow covered for almost all of Feb. The few days that collector was clear it was getting ready to snow or rain (cloudy). I take the RV for a drive once a month when I exercise the generator, this months drive was a little longer. GAWD I am glad the winter is behind us.Of Topic. If anyone is coming to see the Cherry Blossoms this year they will be arriving a little late this year... Bloom Schedule - Cherry Blossom Festival (U.S. National Park Service)
Re: 2011 TK Reply #4 – March 17, 2015, 07:19:09 pm Yahoo Message Number: 151592I have not called the mothership, but intend to. I will post answer.
Re: 2011 TK Reply #5 – March 17, 2015, 09:09:44 pm Yahoo Message Number: 151593I know exactly how you feel as I have a problem kinda similar to yours.I have 4 AGM Lifeline batteries that are going bad (are bad). At the time I bought the batteries, I replaced the original converter with a Progressive Dynamics PD4655 unit. All worked well at first, or so I thought.I'm a heavy user of amps at night and consume about 65-90 amps daily. My daily usage is now down to about 65 amps per night after making some consumption changes.When everything was new, all was apparently fine for the first year and then one day I couldn't start my generator without my Link 10 losing its memory (Link 10 is a battery monitor of amp I/O). Later on I couldn't even start my generator. My solution was to start the Ford engine first and run it for several minutes putting a charge into the house batteries. While the engine was running I could start the generator, but I would still lose the memory for the Link 10.Losing memory in the Link 10 was caused by the generator drawing lotsa amps (normal) that it would drop the battery voltage down to about 8-9 volts (not normal). Low battery voltage caused the Link 10 to lose its mind and blank out.Not losing the memory for the Link 10 is an important feature because it keeps track of how many total amps I have used. Total amps used makes me aware of when the generator has replaced the amps previously used.At this point, I replaced all of my battery and inverter wiring with double aught wires after being advised that my wires were too small. I went for overkill using double aught. Replacing the wiring did nothing to alleviate the problem.I am now faced with replacing my 4 Lifeline batteries, which cost about $300 each. This time I'm going to try the Trojan AGM batteries instead of the Lifelines.But the solution of buying new AGM batteries doesn't solve the original problem of WHY THEY WENT BAD. New battery wiring and a new Progressive Dynamics converter should have kept me out of this situation, but it didn't work that way.My present thoughts are to replace the converter with a bigger amp unit (faster battery charge), replace the wire from the converter to the batteries with something bigger than needed and buy new AGM batteries. This gives me a fresh start for the new batteries without repeating the problem with the equipment that caused the original failure.One can only hope at this point that my new equipment will fix the problem. I'm not filled with great confidence that I won't repeat the same situation. Only time and usage will tell the story, but this time around I will be watching everything very closely from day one.Larry's idea of using 4 Trojan lead acid batteries is certainly the cheapest solution. He built a suspended battery frame to hold his batteries and uses a hand squeeze pump to add water to the batteries. Using the hand pump is really easy to do. If I have another AGM failure (no no no), I'm sure I will follow Larry's 4 Trojan lead acid battery suspended frame idea. Replacing the Trojans is a LOT cheaper than replacing AGMs.Larry has extensive history fixing Lazy Daze problems and he has pretty well been there, done that.You can see pictures of his exterior battery frame at the following link.SD BobBattery tray- newAnd for good ideas, browse his Lazy Daze albums at this linkhttps://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/
Re: 2011 TK Reply #6 – March 17, 2015, 09:42:46 pm Yahoo Message Number: 151594The more I read about premature AGM battery failures makes me happy I decided to stick with the Trojans. T-145's will fit in the stock battery compartment (you might have to raise the circuit breaker to clear). This is what Larry did when installing mine. I am going to look into a frame mounted external battery compartment to add 2 more batteries (Trojans). Now that I have 4 solar panels this should really help my boon docking capacity. You can never have too much battery/solar capacity IMO.bobmoore1401 23.5 TK with toys...Somewhere in the desert missing my Jeep...
Re: 2011 TK Reply #7 – March 18, 2015, 11:23:06 am Yahoo Message Number: 151597I'd guess maybe you discharged them too far? (Possibly repeatedly.) I have a 2011 24FL with the same configuration and it won't always stay charged in wintertime storage with just solar.Two primary reasons for mine: 1. Tree debris & dirt builds up in winter storage, as mine is currently uncovered. 2. I live in western WA...little sun & lots of rain.My solution is to plug it in about once a month if I don't use it. If batteries are drained down too far, you can wreck them. There are experts on this forum who can speak to that better than I can. Numerically it's not nearly as far discharged as you may think.Lori Y
Re: 2011 TK Reply #8 – March 19, 2015, 12:34:22 pm Yahoo Message Number: 151615One concern I have with my Lifelines is the Heliotrope controller setting for dry camping @ 14.4 volts. I don't leave my unit unattended in storage at that setting-my thought it is too high for the Lifeline batteries. I use the 13.20 volt shore power setting when unattended to float the batteries and temporarily boost them higher now and then. The other issue is the factory Parallax controller which runs at 13.6- 13.8 volts. At times in hot weather this may be a too high float voltage to maintain continuously on the fully charged AGMs. My thought here is to either disconnect the batteries when fully charged in warm/hot weather-or throw the breaker to the converter at times it isn't needed. If my batteries are charged I'll often float along on the solar at 13.20 during the day, even when hooked up-and may or may not use converter at night depending on demand I'm wonder if any premature failures could be tied to overcharging? To me the factory setup very well could encourage this in a unit which is plugged in constantly or solar left on the 14.4 setting. So far so good. I have one thing I really like about the AGMs, even if they don't provide the life I expected. They're clean, the don't spatter, and the compartment and cables stay free of corrosion. So even if they don't give particularly long life, I'll get new AGM.
Re: 2011 TK Reply #9 – March 19, 2015, 12:50:07 pm Yahoo Message Number: 151616"I'm wonder if any premature failures could be tied to overcharging? To me the factory setup very well could encourage this in a unit which is plugged in constantly or solar left on the 14.4 setting."A good reason to change to a 'smarter' converter that made to work with AGMs different float voltage requirements. Heliotrope solar controllers have destroyed more than one set of AGMs.Larry
Re: 2011 TK Reply #10 – March 19, 2015, 12:59:55 pm Yahoo Message Number: 151617Essentially the factory charging equipment on the '11 at least isn't really suitable for AGM batteries. The Heliotrope should have a voltage number instead of "dry camping (14.4 volt) and "shore power" (13.2 volt). IMO the 14.4 is not suitable for long term storage, unless very specific conditions of limited sunlight. The one step parallax constant voltage is too high for AGM in warmer temps to be applied continuously.
Re: 2011 TK Reply #11 – March 19, 2015, 03:14:45 pm Yahoo Message Number: 151618Which charge controller is the factory using for current models?Joan
Re: 2011 TK Reply #12 – March 19, 2015, 04:53:14 pm Yahoo Message Number: 151626"14.4 [volts] is not suitable for long term storage, unless very specific conditions of limited sunlight."Agreed. Concorde's Lifeline AGM battery manual calls for 13.3 V float charging at 77° F.According to the manual, even bulk/absorption charging should be done at 14.3 V at 77°. (See page 19 for a table of recommended charging voltages at various temperatures.) The same applies to the Parallax 7300 series converter, which I believe Lazy Daze is still using.If Lazy Daze is installing solar controllers and/or converters that deliver higher voltages than Concorde recommends, that can cause premature AGM battery failure. (Like Joan, I'd like to know what they are using now that Heliotrope is out of business. Blue Sky's 2512, perhaps?)Andy Baird
Re: 2011 TK Reply #13 – March 19, 2015, 06:35:08 pm Yahoo Message Number: 151630As of 2014 the factory using a Parallax 7345 converter.
Re: 2011 TK Reply #14 – March 19, 2015, 06:45:13 pm Yahoo Message Number: 151631The charge controller that LD is using is....Joan
Re: 2011 TK Reply #15 – March 19, 2015, 07:24:01 pm Yahoo Message Number: 151632QuoteOn Mar 19, 2015, at 3:45 PM, [lifewithalazydazerv] wrote:The charge controller that LD is using is....As of 2014 Solar Boost 3000i
Re: 2011 TK Reply #16 – March 19, 2015, 08:40:31 pm Yahoo Message Number: 151633Currently being used Parallax 7345ABlue Sky SB3000IBlue Sky Energy Inc. | Solar Boost 3000iBlue Sky Energy Inc. | Solar Boost 3000i 12V/30A 400W MPPT solar charge controller 12V/22A 290W MPPT controller with 60 cell modules View on www.blueskyenergyin...rightEd
Re: 2011 TK Reply #17 – March 19, 2015, 08:56:16 pm Yahoo Message Number: 151634Thanks for the replies!Joan
Re: 2011 TK Reply #18 – March 19, 2015, 09:15:22 pm Yahoo Message Number: 151635Joan, They're using the Blue Sky 3000i, nice upgrade from the older 2000E in my last two rigs.1) Supports up to 400 watts using 12v panels 2) Three stage charger, the 2000E was two stage and never dropped to float voltage.3) Once the coach batteries are at float stage, 2A is diverted to maintain the chassis battery (similar to LSL Trick-L-Start).4) Resettable amp-hour counter.Steve
Re: 2011 TK Reply #19 – March 28, 2015, 06:51:55 pm Yahoo Message Number: 151888Called mothership, spoke to Vince. He said the have had a very few complaints about the AGM batteries. He advised me to call Lifeline Batteries in San Marcos, CA. I talked to Dave and described the short battery life. Dave told me to bring them in (luckily I live 50 miles away). He said they would check them out. I will post his findings next week.
Re: 2011 TK Reply #20 – March 30, 2015, 05:39:52 pm Yahoo Message Number: 151974Took my 3 year old AGM batteries to Lifeline in San Dimas this morning. Come to find out, the 2 batteries were made one year before I accepted delivery and were therefore four yrs old. I mentioned that they had corroded and I had cleaned them and sprayed the terminals with the usual red spray used on lead acid batteries. Even with the red spray they corroded again. Lifeline mentioned they are not supposed to corrode and if they ever do use ammonia to clean terminals and cables. Give that they set around for a year before I took possession of my TK and that they had corroded and they were currently unable to last very long even when fully charged, Lifeline gave me two brand new AGM batteries. Can I say GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!. They also gave me some tips on how to maintain my new batteries. I have two factory installed 100 watt solar panels which charge at about a 10 or 12 watts. They said a third panel would be best; next would be to use my generator more to make sure they get back up to 12.9 volts after every use. Once they go below 50% charge, they are done. I believe most Lazy Daze customers get their coach when the batteries are fresh. My case was special. I am grateful and relieved I didn't have to switch to Trojans lead acid.
Re: 2011 TK Reply #21 – March 30, 2015, 06:55:42 pm Yahoo Message Number: 151983Larry According to Vince at the mothership the Trojan 105's will fit in the AGM battery compartment. No modification required.
Re: 2011 TK Reply #22 – March 31, 2015, 11:53:45 am Yahoo Message Number: 151999"According to Vince at the mothership the Trojan 105's will fit in the AGM battery compartment. No modification required"The AGM battery compartment is the same as the lead-acid compartment, minus the slide used for pulling the lead-acid battery out, used when adding water. The AGM compartment does have added wood used to secure the AGMs. A T-125 or T-145, with greater capacity than theT105s, will also fit. In a lead-acid battery box, remove the slide to provide room for the tall T-145s. Add a remote watering system to ease the watering chore.Larry
Re: 2011 TK Reply #23 – March 31, 2015, 03:53:13 pm Yahoo Message Number: 152005I can also recommend the Trojan T-145's, if you can find a deal on them. Larry installed mine in the stock battery compartment years ago. With 4 solar panels I rarely run them down past 70% capacity. Now that I have replaced some lights with LED's it's even less. With a Pro-Fill water filler system maintenance a snap. Just carry a bottle of distilled water to replenish occasionally.bobmoore14
Re: 2011 TK Reply #24 – April 01, 2015, 03:43:48 pm Yahoo Message Number: 152029Has anyone changed their controller to the new Solar Boost 3000i? There must be a reason why Lazy Daze changed to this new controller. I found it online for $275. If it is an easy DYI change, I will consider doing. I do think that my TK stored in the So Cal sun and hot temperature my have affected the longevity of my batteries. Since Lifeline was so gracious as to replace my AGM's for free, I could spend the money I saved on the Solar Boost 3000i controller.
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