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2015 Available Custom Options on new LD
Yahoo Message Number: 151214
I called the sales office today and they sent me a price list for the Custom Options.  This is same price list as 2014 as that date is in the title.

Which of these things would you order and why assuming you were going to get a new 2015 or 2016 LD?  By the way, the sales guy said that if I ordered today, I probably could not take delivery until June 2016.

1) Sealed 12V house batteries disconnect switch = $85
2) Bilstein shocks (4) installed (do not need on 24 ft models) = $425
3) Remote mounted 40 chan CB radio with weather channels = $300
4) Pioneer in-dash nav system with AM/FM single CD, iPod & Bluetooth interface = $1,200
5) Sirius satellite radio pkg integrated with and controlled by in-dash CD/radio (subscription req'd = $400
6) 2nd solar panel (1st one on std on all models) = $850
7) Outside shower with insulated door (std on 31 ft) = $200
8) Single pedestal game table (only for 27 ft twin sofa model) = $250
9) "Hardwood" dashboard and cup holder console overlay trim = $250
 10) Tan ultra leather high back cab seats with embroidered LD logo = $750 11) Insulate both exterior holding tanks = $450 12) Electric coach entry steps (std on 31 ft) = $300 13) Manual satellite antenna = $500 14) Automatic in motion semi-low profile dome satellite antenna = $3,600 15) Back-up camera with 5.6 inch LCD cab mounted color monitor with built-in one way speaker sys = $1,200 16) Entertainment center on all models (except 27 ft MB and 24 ft TB), includes storage compartments, 32 inch LED flat screen stereo TV and built-in shelving for your video components (ALL std on 31 ft) = $2,200 17) Heated/power cab mirrors with interior electric adjustment controls and LED turn signal indicators in mirror glass = $750 18) Ford 6.8 V-10 engine available in 24 ft models (Std on 27 and 31 ft models) = $1,050

The model I'm leaning toward is the 31 foot and several of these items come standard on it.
Re: 2015 Available Custom Options on new LD
Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151216
Hi Richard,
 I ordered my 27' rear bath charcoal/silver 2015 LD on September 4, 2014. Only 7 months till it is scheduled to be completed.
 In response to your inquiry, here is what my wife and I decided to add as extras. Todd was very helpful in steering our choices toward what would best suit us.
 Our choices: #1 Sealed 12vlt battery disconnect. It was just a wise thing to insure peace of mind. Todd felt it was a good option to safeguard the electrical. Not certain how it works yet, but I know we will be instructed in its usefulness.
 #6 2nd Solar Panel. We plan on boon docking quite a bit. I asked if two was enough and Todd assured us that we would be fine with two. After follow the Wynn's on GoneWithTheWynn's, I'm seriously considering a portable solar array to supplement our needs, but that decision will come after a few trips to see how the two factory installed panels meet our needs.
 #7 Outside Shower. We have three small dogs who can get some pretty muddy paws. A good idea for us too just in case it's raining or muddy so we can clean up prior to climbing back into the rig.
 #9 Hard wood dash. I have it in my Toyota Avalon and it really adds a touch of class. I've seen pics of LD's without the wood dash and it looks kind of plain. I think after spending so much on the new rig it would be an injustice to scrimp on this detail. After all, I'm going to spend a good deal of time up front. It may as well say quality. That's what the coach absolutely screams.
 #10 Ultra Leather High Back Seats. Once again, this is what I have in my car. It's comfortable and cleans up easily. Cloth tatters and stains (I've had cloth seats before and they get old very quickly). Then there is the touch of class element. It's really a nice touch.
 #13 Manual Satellite Antenna. I don't spend much time watching TV while I travel. With the standard fare on television, there really isn't too much to watch anyway. So while we will watch TV on occasion, I couldn't justify the high cost of the self searching antenna. Todd was helpful here too. How difficult can it be to aim an antenna anyway
 #15 Back Up Camera. This is a must. I thought of picking one up a Costco and installing it my self on the cheap, but figured Lazy Daze would do a far better job and the wiring would be run during the build.
I would have had to drill holes and run wires either along the floor or underneath along the chassis. Not a good option for me.
 #17 Heated Power Mirrors. Another must for me. It is such a hassle trying to adjust the mirrors by hand. While backing up, it is nice to be able to tweak the mirrors a bit to see down along the sides of the coach. Heated mirrors are great too when the weather gets cold and things start to fog up.
 We thought about insulating the holding tanks, but Todd asked how often we would travel in the cold weather. The simple answer to that was not often. My wife is cold blooded and prefers warmer climates. I'm not sure how easy it would be to insulate them after the build, but I may consider doing it if it's possible after we see what our travel plans may include in the future.

Anyway, there it is. Hope that helps.

Kent
2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: 2015 Available Custom Options on new LD
Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151217
Basically, the battery disconnect is a switch in the cable between the 2 6-volt batteries (the series connection). It only disconnects the BATTERiIES from the the house power buss. It does not shut down the 12-volt system.  If you have solar, there will still be 12V on everything (if the sun is out).
 I had one on my '06 MB, and ditched it when I replaced the batteries.  Virtually useless (actually dangerous with the older Heliotrope solar controllers) IMO.   It might have been more useful if I did not have Solar up top.

-Dave '06 MB, Indianapolis
Re: 2015 Available Custom Options on new LD
Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151218
"Basically, the battery disconnect is a switch in the cable between the 2 6-volt batteries (the series connection). It only disconnects the BATTERiIES from the the house power buss. It does not shut down the 12-volt system.  If you have solar, there will still be 12V on everything (if the sun is out)."

Dave

So, when you work on your LD's 12-volt system, you have to pull a battery terminal, instead of using a Factory installed battery switch to disconnect the battery? I fail to see the convenience or safety advantage.

In all LDs, the other two sources of 12-volt power, solar and the converter, can easily be shut off  usually by pulling a fuse and opening a circuit breaker, both in the Power Center.
The HPV-22A solar controller, in our LD, has its own on-off switch.

With a battery switch, all 12-volt power can be disconnected in less than a minute. Nice if you ever have an electrical power fire that needs the power shut off quickly.
You will be out there longer unbolting a battery terminal.

I use marine battery switches and installed one in our LD, with the added feature of being able to jumper the starting battery with the twist of a knob https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/1416467334/in/set-72157602104740457.
I like building RV's electrical system to marine standards as much as possible to ensure dependable and safe  performance.  Motorhome are yachts that don't float well.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: 2015 Available Custom Options on new LD
Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151219
I going to give a few list.  Definite pics, Maybe, and Not.  The numbers are from your original list Definite:
1)Sealed 12V house batteries disconnect switch = $85
6) 2nd solar panel (1st one on std on all models) = $850  
7) Outside shower with insulated door (std on 31 ft) = $200 (for the dogs and us at the beach.  Might be on the wrong side?)  
9) "Hardwood" dashboard and cup holder console overlay trim = $250 It does look real nice.
   12) Electric coach entry steps (std on 31 ft) = $300  (I think you said you are getting a 31' so my comments make no difference.  But I love my auto step. The auto up feature has saved me a couple times when pulling out of camp.)  15) Back-up camera with 5.6 inch LCD cab mounted color monitor with built-in one way speaker sys = $1,200   (there may be less expensive ways to install this technology but it is nice to have all the wires for power and comms installed at the factory instead of figuring a path later.
 17) Heated/power cab mirrors with interior electric adjustment controls and LED turn signal indicators in mirror glass = $750 (In addition to making it easier to adjust for going down the road I find that on my Mid Bath when pulling into a gas station I can site the mirror on the Black tank outlet.  The outlet is immediately below the gas cap.  I also use the mirrors for backing into tight spots siting the mirror on any worrisome spots (rocks, edge of driveway and the like).

Maybe:
2) Bilstein shocks (4) installed (do not need on 24 ft models) = $425 (I thought I read that Ford improved the shocks.  If that is the case I would stay with the original shocks. Then once they wore out switch to the new Koni.  If I am incorrect and Ford has not improved the factory shocks I would switch to the Bilsteins.  Especially with the 31' LD.)
3) Remote mounted 40 chan CB radio with weather channels = $300  (I would have to think long and hard on this one.  I just have not used mine.  I live where cell coverage is mostly good so it is not a safety feature.  If I lived where I would get more use from it I would reconsider).
 13) Manual satellite antenna = $500  (depends on if you use it.  I would not get it but I do not know how you intend to use your RV)  14) Automatic in motion semi-low profile dome satellite antenna = $3,600 (I do not use this and for me it would be throwing money away.  Again it depends on how you intend to use your RV.
   16) Entertainment center on all models (except 27 ft MB and 24 ft TB), includes storage compartments, 32 inch LED flat screen stereo TV and built-in shelving for your video components (ALL std on 31 ft) = $2,200  (I like the extra bed more, if your getting the 31 it is not an option.)

Not:  
4) Pioneer in-dash nav system with AM/FM single CD, iPod & Bluetooth interface = $1,200 (Aftermarket nave systems are easier to upgrade and move from car to car.)
5) Sirius satellite radio pkg integrated with and controlled by in-dash CD/radio (subscription req'd = $400 (I love my XM set but like moving it from car to car and at one point even to the house.  So if I liked XM enough to opt for it I would keep the dash mounted kit I have now.  That said I can get almost as much enjoyment from Pandora and actually am thinking of dropping XM all together.

8) Single pedestal game table (only for 27 ft twin sofa model) = $250
 10) Tan ultra leather high back cab seats with embroidered LD logo = $750 (I think the cloth seats are more comfortable.  The ultra leather is not that leather like in my 07.
11) Insulate both exterior holding tanks = $450  Read Andy's pages and comments on the tanks freezing and also about adding different technology to read tank levels.

John 07 MB
Currently: 2008 36' Tiffin Open Road
Previously: 2007 Mid Bath
Re: 2015 Available Custom Options on new LD
Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151220
Each buyer's choice of factory-installed options varies according to personal priorities and travel styles, of course, but many find it useful to search message board posts relating to others' experiences with specific options and how well (or not) their choices worked out in their particular circumstances before placing a final order.

For two examples, posts on the value of insulated holding tanks and solar panel "numbers", array types, and related equipment might provide some interesting reading. ;-)

As ever, YMMV.

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
Re: [LD] 2015 Available Custom Options on new LD
Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151221
"13) Manual satellite antenna = $500
 14) Automatic in motion semi-low profile dome satellite antenna = $3,600"

It depends on how much TV you watch.  If you watch little TV, then go with the manual satellite antenna because of the cost.  Keep in mind, however, that if you are a DirecTV customer, you will only be able to get SD programming, not HD.  If you are a Dish customer, while the antenna will receive Dish's HD programming, it *sees* only one satellite at a time, requiring re-aiming the dish each time you change a channel that's on a different satellite.
 As far as the dome is concerned, it has some of the same limitations as the manual satellite antenna; i.e., it will receive only DirecTV's SD programming.  I'm not sure which dome LD is putting on their new rigs, but I'm assuming that, for Dish, it will automatically switch satellites depending on which channel you select.  If you use a DVR receiver, you will not be able to record one channel while watching another unless both of those channels are on the same satellite.
 And, at $3,600, IMO, it's WAY too much to spend for an automatic satellite dish especially considering you could have a Winegard Trav'ler (for either DirecTV or for Dish) installed for less than $2,000 (we spent $1,500 a few years ago).  The Trav'ler is an open-faced, multiple-LNB dish that has NONE of the limitations noted above for either the dome or the manual antenna.
 If it were ME, I'd ask LD to reinforce the roof where a satellite dish is to be installed and then have a Winegard Trav'ler installed later.  But, we watch a lot of TV, so YMMV.

Linda Hylton

Linda Hylton
Re: 2015 Available Custom Options on new LD
Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151222
I am interested in confirmation from those who have the factory 2 -panel option.  Is it really enough?  I am concerned about 1) Lack of ability tilt these panels 2) Size of panels (100w x 2) and 3) The type of solar controller that LD installs.

They will begin construction of ours any day now, so it is time to make decisions!  If the addition of a couple of extra AGM batteries & the 2 solars will work - great.  If not, I am considering asking the mothership not to install anything & start from scratch.

Steve

Currently 30 IB, next one 27MB

#6 2nd Solar Panel. We plan on boon docking quite a bit. I asked if two was enough and Todd assured us that we would be fine with two. After follow the Wynn's on GoneWithTheWynn's, I'm seriously considering a portable solar array to supplement our needs, but that decision will come after a few trips to see how the two factory installed panels meet our needs.
2004 MB Lazy Daze, Jeep Wrangler Sport 2 Door
Previous LD: 92 22RB, 98 30IB, 15 27RB
Previous TT: 2020 Lance 2185
Re: 2015 Available Custom Options on new LD
Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151223
I took delivery June 2014 of a 24 ft TK ....
My experience from then ....
personal fine art photo stuff
TF Mack | Flickr
It's all good .......
2014 Twin King
Re: solar panel was Re: 2015 Available Custom Options on new LD
Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151224
Quote
On Feb 19, 2015, at 10:45 AM,  [lifewithalazydazerv]  wrote:

I am interested in confirmation from those who have the factory 2 -panel option.  Is it really enough?  I am concerned about 1) Lack of ability tilt these panels 2) Size of panels (100w x 2) and 3) The type of solar controller that LD installs.

The panels are AM Solar 100.  The Charge Controller is Solar Boost 3000i.

Enough is a personal thing I can't answer.  I don't think anybody else can either.  There are too many variables ie were you live, were you plan to travel, what is your energy consumption.
personal fine art photo stuff
TF Mack | Flickr
It's all good .......
2014 Twin King
Re: 2015 Available Custom Options on new LD
Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151225
The price of Solar Panels has come down considerably. I boondock often with a 01 23.5 TK. I have 4 solar panels (2X100W, 1 130W, 1 140W. With 2 Trojan T-145's this has proved sufficient in the past. My batteries are getting near end of life and I am going to upgrade to 4 T-105's if Larry can find a place to mount external battery box under frame. In my opinion you can never have too much Solar or Batteries. Plentiful power means less to worry about.

All my Solar equipment (wiring, panels, controller, battery monitor, mounts, etc. were supplied by AM Solar in Springfield, OR. These guys can't be beat for tech support and service after the sale. They sell complete matched kits which you can add as many panels as will fit on your roof if desired. Tilting brackets are available for all models.

A superior solution to what the factory offers. Be careful of the portable arrays, they are thief magnets.

Bob 01 23.5 TK with toys...
Re: 2015 Available Custom Options on new LD
Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151226
I am interested in confirmation from those who have the factory 2 -panel option.  Is it really enough?  I am concerned about 1) Lack of ability tilt these panels 2) Size of panels (100w x 2) and 3) The type of solar controller that LD installs.

---- I can't speak to whether the solar panels and/or charge controller  and/or the wiring that the factory installs in current models are "state of the art" or not, but I'd check the AM Solar website to see how their products compare to what the factory is installing. If there are "discrepancies" and/or you have questions about the products or installation, I suggest calling AM Solar; they are very good about answering questions.

There's no pat answer to the "how much is enough" question; some people have no solar, and others find that 800W (if they can find the space to put them!) isn't sufficient for their needs. When I bought my 2003, one 85W panel was considered "enough" for most people's uses, and that's what I got. Now I have two 100W panels (and an updated charge controller) and plan on another 100W if I can find a place for it. My basic camping/traveling style didn't change between 2003 and 2015, but my power "needs" did and *so did every facet of solar technology*; this last is a particularly critical point of consideration, IMO.

This is only a personal opinion, and certainly would not be everyone's choice, but if I were ordering a new LD, I would discuss my solar needs/wants with Greg and Deb at AM Solar in order to plan for and "cost out" a system that would take advantage of the latest, most efficient solar products *and* could be expanded/updated as technology (and/or needs) changes.

As ever, YMMV.

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
Re: 2015 Available Custom Options on new LD
Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151227
I just put a pencil to the extras (thanks for the list) and figure I'll spend an additional $6k with add-ons.  If I'm going to spend $100k+ on a 31TB, I want it as nice as possible from the factory since I hopefully will call this home for the next 5-15 years.

I can see some more upgrades after the fact probably to the solar as technology continues to advance.

Also, just went to the Dallas RV show this afternoon.  You can tell where the dealers make their profits since there were very few were Class C.
Rick and Melissa
2016 27ft RB
Re: solar panel was Re: 2015 Available Custom Options on new LD
Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151228
"I am interested in confirmation from those who have the factory 2 -panel option. Is it really enough?"

I have never heard anyone say "I have too much solar"

If you plan on boondocking, for most folks, two panels isn't enough for today's electronics. If most of your camping will be in campgrounds, with hookups, or short term stays. two might be plenty.
If you fall into the first category, get the minimum or no panels from LD and then, later upgrade to more panels, bigger cabling and a larger controller. Kits from AM Solar are the best I have seen or installed.

LD will tell you that they must reinforce the roof where the panels sit. This isn't true, panels can be added almost anywhere on the roof, they weight little and are not difficult to install.
You do need LARGE cabling to get the most out of your panels, do not go cheap here.                                                                                                                                                    Serious boondockers will add two or more batteries (AGMs in the newer models) and then add panels until they reach the 500-600- watt range or greater.

Tilting is nice, if you actually do it, many do not go on their roofs due to fear of falling. In this case, adding another panel or two will make up for the lack of tilting.                                                                                                     Solar is cheap today, you can never have too much.

Boondockers will also want an upgraded converter, to reduce generator run time when charging the battery during rainy weather.                                                                                                                                                                                                                       A battery capacity meter is also a requirement for energy management.                        Two type of battery capacity meters are now available, the tradional shunt-amp/hour counter (Xantrex Links) and the new high tech voltmeters (Balmar).                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/power-accessories/linklite-battery-monitor.aspxhttp://www.balmar.net/PDF/SMARTGAUGE%20MANUAL.pdf Andy is now experimenting with a SmartGauge and hopefully will give a report of its usefulness after few months.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: solar panel was Re: 2015 Available Custom Options on new LD
Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151230
"Solar Boost 3000i."

It's a good controller. Nothing wrong with the AM Solar 100 panels, either. The way that Lazy Daze installs them... that's another story.

As others have pointed out, as they are installed by the factory, you can't tilt them. Now, if you're only vacationing during the warmer months, you won't care, but if you travel at other times of the year, it's very useful to at least have the option.

Moreover, the factory's choices of locations on the roof are generally poor, because the panels are often shadowed by the air conditioner housing, which greatly reduces solar power generation.

Lazy Daze will only install a maximum of two panels, and the way they are mounted makes it very difficult to add more. The factory doesn't use the standard AM Solar mounting brackets, which allow for tilting and for easy access to electrical connections on the panels' undersides. At least in the cases I've seen, the panels cannot be lifted in order to gain access to their electrical connections without completely unmounting them from the roof, removing all sealant and mounting adhesive--a major operation.

Many people will get by with only two panels, but many more will end up wishing for more panels--and adding more panels to a factory installation is difficult and labor-intensive. The way I like to sum it up is this: I have never heard an RVer say, "Gee, I wish I had fewer solar panels!" But I've heard many say that they wished they had more. I have five 100 W AM Solar panels, and I wish I had six. ;-)

It's true that the number of panels depends upon the owner's RVing style. If all you do is drive from KOA to KOA, plugging in every night, then you may not need solar power. (But I would argue that you're missing 90% of the fun of RVing.) On the other hand, having a good-sized solar array gives you the freedom to visit some of the most beautiful places on earth... and to linger there for days or weeks, taking your power silently and cleanly from the sun, without polluting the environment by running your generator every day.

Andy Baird

Travels with Andy
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: 2015 Available Custom Options on new LD
Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151231
There is plenty of room on the roof of a 31' model should you decide to add more panels in the future. After traveling for a year, or so, you'll be in a much better position to decide based on your actual needs.  Additions can be expensive but not terribly so.

For those who might want no panels and then go to AM Solar. Before I got real excited about that option, I would check with Todd. One panel is a standard feature on all models. Will LD delete a standard feature? They are not known for their flexibility. If they deleted the panel, would they give you a credit towards your purchase?

FYI. This is the solar charge controller.

http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com/products/details/solar-boost-3000i
Re: 2015 Available Custom Options on new LD
Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151232
The Wynn's have a class A rig with panels mounted on the roof. As part of their blog, they demo products they use that increases their dry camping ability.
 They demonstrated a portable two panel solar array that they set on the ground and connect to their existing solar system. It unfolds like a game table and provides an addition 200 watts of power. The cost is reasonable at around $600.
 As their rig is a class A, I am not certain how the portable panels would plug into the LD class C solar system.
 Intriguing to say the least. If it works for the LD, it seems like a practice alternative to mounting a third or fourth array (if it would fit) on a 27' rig.
2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: 2015 Available Custom Options on new LD
Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151239
We went with the battery cut off since we store our rig in an indoor storage area for 4-6 months due to snow up here.  That (afaik) makes the solar a non issue.  We're also thinking of installing an engine battery cut off switch.
Syndi
2014 TK
The Super Flea
Re: 2015 Available Custom Options on new LD
Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151302
On that list the backup camera is something I find essential.  My LD was a floor model with most of the accessories.  It came with the second solar panel which has been fine with me for the last three years.  I added 300 amp hour Lifeline batteries in the stock compartment.
 I'm not hardcore boondocker, so no recommendations past my own use.  I have camped up to a week off the grid with no generator usage.  Then driven some distance and boondocked some more.  I do not use battery power for any heating duty such as making coffee, microwave, etc.  I use propane to cook.  I find today's electronics to be much more efficient than what was out in the past.  My Macbook Air draws about 10 watts, LED lighting, TVs etc.  I generally do not have an inverter going.  There is a lot to say for focusing on the demand side as well as the supply side of the 12 volt system.   An there is nothing wrong with finishing up the trip and parking the rig with low batteries.  Solar will take care of it.
 Summary if you're heavy boondocker or need microwave/coffee, heavy computer equipment etc. I'd say go right to aftermarket solar.    For a user more like myself (or less), the factory system is fine-worst case you may have to rarely fire up the generator (and you need to run the dumb thing anyway to exercise it).
Re: 2015 Available Custom Options on new LD
Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151304
"An there is nothing wrong with finishing up the trip and parking the rig with low batteries.  Solar will take care of it." ---- I have two GPL-4CT Lifelines:

http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/rvflyer.php?id=14

YMMV, but I don't rely on solar (200W ) to fully re-charge the coach batteries after dry camping; I plug in for at least a day.

This snip is from the Lifeline Batteries website:

"Battery Care- Once you have selected and installed your battery bank (s), there are some simple tips to insure a long cycle-life. After you have discharged your batteries, be sure you fully recharge them. You know your Lifeline Batteries are fully charged when you can no longer push more than .5amp/ 100amp/hr into them. Never let your batteries rest in a discharged state as they will begin to sulfate. Make sure that all battery charging devices are dialed in as close as possible to our recommended charging values. You should always fully charge your batteries prior to storing them. We recommend putting a maintenance charge on your batteries every 6 to 8 weeks for best results. "

As ever, YMMV.

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
Re: 2015 Available Custom Options on new LD
Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 151308
I have the factory two solar panels. When boon docking we watch satellite tv for 4 hours or more and I use a CPAP machine for sleep. If the sun is out our two AGM 6 volt batteries are at full charge by noon or 1pm. For us this option fits our needs.
James Allen Jackson