OEM Furnace December 24, 2014, 01:11:57 pm Yahoo Message Number: 150054My 01 TK has a very inefficient on board propane furnace. Anyone know of a better furnace that will fit in the existing space? If it had an electric option as well that would be icing on the cake. My unit is mounted in the wall next to the power distribution panel. It has 2 outlets one in hallway and one near entry door opposite the bathroom door.This time of year the Wave III just doesn't cut it. I need something that will blow volumes of heat.Bob
Re: OEM Furnace Reply #1 – December 24, 2014, 02:33:04 pm Yahoo Message Number: 150055You could check out the specs of each on this link to Suburban RV furnaces:http://www.rvcomfort.com/suburban/products/furnaces.phpEven if you were able to retrofit a more powerful furnace in the existing space, it might not be the "best" solution because a "bigger" furnace would use more propane; even small RV furnaces are big propane suckers , and your LPG tank has a bit less than 8 usable gallons. You might be a bit warmer, but you'd likely be to-ing and fro-ing to the propane store more often than you'd like! ;-)You mentioned an "electric" option; if you do have a hookup, why not use a small electric space heater? (Maybe you already have one?) Pelonis (and several other manufacturers) makes models which work well in an RV:http://pelonis.com/aboutpl.htmAs ever, YMMV!Joan
Re: OEM Furnace Reply #2 – December 24, 2014, 02:47:05 pm Yahoo Message Number: 150056Yes Joan I do have a small space heater I got at Walmart. It works okay but I boondock often and don't want to run the generator to use it. Also some parks monitor electricity usage and the thing is a power sucker. I have an aux. propane tank via extend-a-stay and propane is cheap in OR. and NV. where I hang out most winters. Plus the furnace will warm things up quickly in the morning before I get out of bed. You are right about capacity. I filled up my empty on board tank today and it took 8.1 gallons. With my 5 gallon tank stashed in the toad this equals 12 gallons which is usually good for 2 weeks.With the TK's 3 windows in the rear I know that heat loss is a factor. Going to try making some insulated cardboard pieces for the windows to see how much it helps. The cold never used to bug me, but as I get older it's more of a factor.Somewhere in the Nevada desert..... Bob
Re: OEM Furnace Reply #3 – December 24, 2014, 03:08:00 pm Yahoo Message Number: 150057My 01 TK has a very inefficient on board propane furnace. Anyone know of a better furnace that will fit in the existing space? If it had an electric option as well that would be icing on the cake. My unit is mounted in the wall next to the power distribution panel. It has 2 outlets one in hallway and one near entry door opposite the bathroom door.This time of year the Wave III just doesn't cut it. I need something that will blow volumes of heat.BobAre you sure that the furnace is working right to start with. I also have a 24' but it is a 2005 FD. I have tested the unit an have no problem down to 0 degree and lower. Unless they made some changes they use the same furnace in the 24 and 27 unit, 20,000 BTU with low amp draw fan. The 31 foot gets a 30,000 BTU furnace. All have ducks. The furnace does not run full time. It shut down which tells me there is room to play.When I bought my unit in 2011 I had my doughs about the furnace but no longer. When I checked the furnaces in the units I think the 2 furnace were the same size only the output changed??? 20 and 30 thousand. Check it out on the furnace web sight. Check and see if the ducks are not crushed. One in mine was some what crushed by them to get it around the draws. I opened it up a lot. Another thing that i did was plug the return air opening in the Cabinet. It was just below the warm air outlet duck. I then made it so that it had to draw the air from the far side of the couch. That way the cold air was not pulling in the hot air from the hot air outlet.GeorgeRetired Plumber.GeorgeRetired plumber
Re: OEM Furnace Reply #4 – December 24, 2014, 04:24:58 pm Yahoo Message Number: 150059Have you considered adding something like an Olympian Wave 6 catalytic heater? They are very propane efficient and use no electricity. They are radiant heater and will not warm the coach up nearly as quickly as the furnace, but they are very nice for maintaining warmth. A Wave 6 may actually be a bit big for a TK. As for electric, even if using most of the power available via a 30A service, that is roughly 10,000 BTU, quite a bit less than the LD furnace. And if you boondock a lot, electric heating is really an option then.Art
Re: OEM Furnace Reply #5 – December 24, 2014, 04:26:53 pm Yahoo Message Number: 150060And if you boondock a lot, electric heating is really an option then.Oops, I meant ISN'T really an option.Art
Re: OEM Furnace Reply #6 – December 24, 2014, 05:10:34 pm Yahoo Message Number: 150061I have the Olympian Wave 3 catalytic heater on a 5 foot hose that allows some placement options but not enough. Doesn't cut it on 32 degree mornings. Needed something that circulates heat. Radiant heat only good when next to unit. Won't work in cold bathroom/shower.When I stay in parks use Wave 3 and electric space heater in tandem to warm up in AM. I guess I'm looking for a solution that doesn't yet exist.Bob Somewhere in the Nevada desert.....
Re: OEM Furnace Reply #7 – December 24, 2014, 05:56:13 pm Yahoo Message Number: 150062We use a Wave 6 in our 30', generally after warming up the coach with the furnace. It's on a 15' or so hose which allows placement of the cat heater where we want it. I don't think there is a solution for you short of adding another cat heater hose and using 2 of them at both ends of the LD.Chris
Re: OEM Furnace Reply #8 – December 24, 2014, 07:32:42 pm Yahoo Message Number: 150063The larger Wave heaters are fairly powerful, but can be overpowering in short order. In our 26-foot Rear Bath, we have a Wave 3 on the back bathroom wall, and another on a hose at the front of the coach between, and just in back of, the front cab seats. We put up a "T"-shaped piece of Reflectix between and in back of the seat backs, and this encourages the heat to flow quite nicely back into the coach area.When we had a TK model, we had the Wave 3 also on the back wall, but that roasted our tootsies while sitting at the table, yet leaving the front part of the coach a mite chilly. We kept the accordion door by the bathroom closed, and that helped quite a bit, but still the kitchen was a lot chillier than the area where we sat at the table.Could you have a Wave 3 on a quick connect somehow in the kitchen area that could be turned around and faced into the bathroom as desired?Virtual hugs,Judie http://dorrieanne.wordpress.com
Re: OEM Furnace Reply #9 – December 25, 2014, 01:11:03 am Yahoo Message Number: 150064"Could you have a Wave 3 on a quick connect somehow in the kitchen area that could be turned around and faced into the bathroom as desired?"JudieBob already has a Wave 3, on a 5' hose, with the quick disconnect located below the stove. Guess he could try a Wave 6 and set it as far forward as possible. Used with a small 12-volt fan to circulate the interior air, it might work. T/Ks do not have a good location for a second Wave, unlike your Rear Bath and our Front Lounge floor plans.The water heater is a potential source of heat but it probably isn't much more effecient that the furnace, a problem with T/K's small, 8 gallon propane tank. It's hard for full timers to boondocks in the winter and to stay warm. Either you head way south or bite the bullet and stay somewhere with electrical hookups.Larry
Re: OEM Furnace Reply #10 – December 25, 2014, 09:28:42 am Yahoo Message Number: 150065Bob, several have recommended inside catalytic heaters. My reading of your post suggests that your furnace puts out sufficient heat, but you are concerned with its efficiency, e.g., it uses propane fast. Well, they do. An open combustion furnace tosses a large percentage of its heat away as exhaust. Getting a bigger furnace would not change this. Actually, the reverse might be worth considering. I would bet that your furnace can maintain internal temperatures, burning for a short time, then waiting while the temperature slowly drops to trigger the thermostat. A smaller furnace would not heat as quickly but might give you sufficient heat with less consumption. Lots of heat will still be lost in the exhaust - that won't change regardless of the furnace. Catalytic heaters are much more efficient. If circulation is your concern, consider a small low draw fan such as a computer fan to provide circulation. Some have suggested using more than one catalytic heater. While this does provide more heat with better distribution, I get really concerned about the potential for carbon monoxide building up in an enclosed space with those things. Be careful...Merry Christmas!Ken F in NM
Re: OEM Furnace Reply #11 – December 25, 2014, 10:09:40 am Yahoo Message Number: 150066I boondock most of the year, sometimes at high altitudes and in very cold weather. My rig is a Mid Bath. The Wave 3 didn't cut it for me, either. I went ahead and got a Wave 6 recently and it is ever so much better. Mine is on a 10 foot quick release hose, so I can move it around. Sometimes I even move it into the bathroom and set it on the toilet seat (very carefully!) to warm up that area before showering. Some people use a fan, like the O2Cool 12 volt model, to distribute the warm air better.The other thing that has really helped me on cold mornings is a switch that my significant other added. The switch is up in the bunk area, and the wiring runs to the furnace. It is a 3-way switch. In the "up" position, it turns on the furnace regardless of the thermostat setting, and it runs until I turn it off. The middle position of the switch is Off. The "down" position runs the furnace just like normal, using the thermostat setting. We got the original idea from Andy, but modified it because my thermostat is the newer DuoTherm Model 3109228.001 that uses an RJ-11 cable. So the new wiring runs directly to the furnace, not to thermostat as Andy's does.I generally don't run the furnace at night for multiple reasons: it's too loud, it uses too much propane, and it uses too much battery power when boondocking. But in the mornings, it sure is nice to flip the switch in the bunk, and then continue to doze until the rig is warmed up to at least 60 degrees. In fact, it's absolutely decadent!
Re: OEM Furnace Reply #12 – December 25, 2014, 11:55:30 am Yahoo Message Number: 150067Bob, My current SOB has a Suburban furnace. It seems to work better than the furnace that was in my 2005 MB. I believe that two furnaces are rated for the same output (10K BTU?). I don't have any quantitative data, but the Suburban blower noise is significantly less with the LD furnace. Also I think that the blower draws less current. I cannot remember for sure but I think the Suburban draws about 4.5 amps and the LD furnace took over 6 amps. We only use the furnace when we are dry camped or it is very cold. Usually we use the heat pump built into the A/C unit. However, it cannot produce enough heat when it is very cold (typically below 35 degrees).Doug
Re: OEM Furnace Reply #13 – December 25, 2014, 01:52:45 pm Yahoo Message Number: 150068Doug, according to the spec sheets from LD (posted on Techsnoz), a 20k BTU furnace was standard on the 2005 26.5' (same on my 2003 TK); the 30' had a 30k BTU furnace. Although the sheets (for those specific years, at least; I didn't look at all of the years.) don't specify the brand of furnace, the literature in my packet is for a Suburban; I would think that the 2005 was the same.Maybe the more recent Suburban furnaces draw fewer amps than older models?Joan
Re: OEM Furnace Reply #14 – December 25, 2014, 02:31:07 pm Yahoo Message Number: 150069Hi Bob,Merry Christmas (I'm not PC) and Happy Holidays (now I am).We have a 2000 MB and we sleep in the back area and not in the overhead.Originally we had a Wave 3 heater on a swing out hinge attached to the cabinet near the door. You would swing the Wave 3 out and it would face to the rear of the coach. It worked fine except when the temperature got really cold at night.So being the great thinker that I am, I figured a Wave 8 on low should work just fine for us and if needed we had plenty of reserve heat. Our Wave 8 (with feet)was on a 10 foot flexible hose with quick connect fittings and also a valve near the furnace to turn the gas off to the hose. I could place the Wave 8 as far forward as the Ford truck seats. Rarely was it cold enough to use the Wave 8 on low without it becoming way too hot in the rear of the MB. In my infinite wisdom I had over loaded the LD with too much Wave power.I sold the Wave 8 on Craigs List and bought a Wave 6 (with feet). We have the same hose setup as before and usually put the Wave 6 in the far front area. I haven't used it at night on anything other than low because I haven't been in snow with this heater yet. I've been in overnight temps in the 30s and Wave 6 on low is fine.I would say if you have a long enough flexible hose and can place a Wave 6 far enough away from where you sleep, you should be fine. Higher heat settings are available when you get into real winter weather.I keep my Wave 6 against the wall under the dinette table. It only sticks out a couple of inches and I use a bungee cord to keep it snug. The 10' gas hose is stuffed into the wall area where there are sliding drawers. It takes a learned technique to stuff the hose and not get it snagged. I stuff it into the hole in the wall with a vertical motion. It has worked very nicely without the hose getting snagged, scuffed or damaged. I wind up with only the quick connect fitting sticking out of the wall.I'm happy with this setup as the Wave 6 has performed nicely in 30 degree weather or warmer and has the capability to handle much colder weather.Gas consumption on the different Wave heaters.Olympian Heater Wave 3 1600-2800 BTU adjustable output1/8 lb./hr. fuel consumptionOlympian Heater Wave 6 3200-5800 BTU adjustable output1/4 lb./hr. fuel consumptionOlympian Heater Wave 8 4200-7600 BTU adjustable output1/3 lb./hr. fuel consumption Hope I could help with my experiences.San Diego Bob
Re: OEM Furnace Reply #15 – December 25, 2014, 06:31:37 pm Yahoo Message Number: 150070I just pulled the spec sheet for the Suburban heater in my 2005 24' FD. It is a NT20S. 19,000 BTU with 2.8 amp blower. The 27' has the same furnace. The 31' has the NT 30SP which is a 30,000 BTU and 5.5 amp blower. One of the first changes I made was to remove the LD thermostat and replace it with a Honeywell auto set back unit. I set the stat to come on about 15 minutes before I get up so that the MH is at 60 when I get up.Also tried to use the A/C 500 BTU heater to sleep at night but I could not take the fan noise. Layed there for 45 minutes waiting for the 747 to get off the ground. YES I'M THE WIMP THIS TIME.GeorgeRetired plumberMy current SOB has a Suburban furnace. It seems to work better than the furnace that was in my 2005 MB. I believe that two furnaces are rated for the same output (10K BTU?). I don't have any quantitative data, but the Suburban blower noise is significantly less with the LD furnace. Also I think that the blower draws less current. I cannot remember for sure but I think the Suburban draws about 4.5 amps and the LD furnace took over 6 amps. We only use the furnace when we are dry camped or it is very cold. Usually we use the heat pump built into the A/C unit. However, it cannot produce enough heat when it is very cold (typically below 35 degrees).Doug
OEM Furnace Reply #16 – December 26, 2014, 11:34:51 am Yahoo Message Number: 150071Thank you for all the helpful responses. This has given me some options to think about. Hope all had an enjoyable Christmas and wishing you a Happy New Year.Bob Somewhere in the Nevada Desert...
Re: OEM Furnace Reply #17 – December 26, 2014, 12:05:18 pm Yahoo Message Number: 150072How about this option? A bit "spendy", but....http://www.mobilewarminggear.com/longmen-heated-shirt/http://www.mobilewarminggear.com/longmen-heated-pant/As ever, YMMV! ;-)Joan
Re: OEM Furnace Reply #18 – December 26, 2014, 01:53:17 pm Yahoo Message Number: 150073If they were not so overpriced I would consider it. Think I'll stick with my thermals and wool socks.Also considering upgrading from Wave 3 to Wave 6 with a longer quick disconnect hose. Larry already installed propane line and quick disconnect fitting so it should be plug and play. I'm going to see about getting better legs made. The factory Wave ones are flimsy and cheap IMO.Bob
Re: OEM Furnace Reply #19 – December 26, 2014, 09:37:30 pm Yahoo Message Number: 150078"A Wave 6 may actually be a bit big for a TK."I tried a Wave 6 years ago in my twin/king. It was too hot even on the lowest setting. In an RV, you're almost always better off with two small heaters than one big one. (That goes for the electrics, too.) With one big heater--especially a radiant one such as a catalytic heater--you get too much heat in the immediate area around the heater, and not enough elsewhere.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels
Re: OEM Furnace Reply #20 – December 26, 2014, 09:45:52 pm Yahoo Message Number: 150079For the price of that heated shirt, I recently bought a Patagonia down sweater. I can't say enough good things about it. It's the warmest garment I've ever owned. And it never needs batteries. :-)Andy BairdTravels with Andy
Re: OEM Furnace Reply #21 – December 26, 2014, 10:41:58 pm Yahoo Message Number: 150080I recently bought a Patagonia down sweater.https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lifewithalazydazerv/conversations/topics/150054;_ylc=X3oDMTM4MWJkNnZkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUzNzEzNDkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI2MTg1BG1zZ0lkAzE1MDA3OQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzE0MTk2NTE5NTMEdHBjSWQDMTUwMDU0Where are you, that you need this. I thought you got to warmer areas at this time of year
Re: OEM Furnace Reply #22 – December 27, 2014, 05:43:38 am Yahoo Message Number: 150081"Where are you, that you need this."Well, as you may have heard, the whole southwest is having a bit of a cold snap this weekend...even western Arizona isn't exempt, although it's normally balmy here. :-)Andy BairdTravels with Andy
Re: OEM Furnace Reply #23 – December 27, 2014, 10:01:50 am Yahoo Message Number: 150082We have an 06 30' and used a Wave 3 for several years on a 7 foot hose. It was great if your sole purpose was to keep you ankles warm and that was only for the person sitting next to it. I may be exaggerating a bit but we just did our best to avoid anything resembling cold weather.Last year in Quartzsite we bought a Kozy World KWP112. It operates manually and has two settings 5,500 and 10,000 btu and it has made all the difference.Pro Com makes them as well and are made in the same factory, or so I am told, in China. There is a different manufacturer here in the U.S. but I don't recall the name of those.We first read about this on a lady's blog who has been fulltiming for many years. We thought it funny that she commented that it had changed her life. Now we say the same thing.Jim CKozy World KWP112 10,000-BTU Vent-Free LP-Gas Infrared Wall Heater As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: OEM Furnace Reply #24 – December 27, 2014, 10:05:49 am Yahoo Message Number: 150083Thank you I am going to look into that heater. Andy's not kidding about the cold snap. Here in Pahrump NV. it was 27 degrees last night. Dump valves are frozen as is water faucet to supply RV. Hoping it warms up this PM.Bob
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