Black water tank replacement November 14, 2014, 12:40:50 pm Yahoo Message Number: 149520We have to replace our black tank after it cracked during a rear tire blow out. The crack is near the top, so it is not currently leaking. We are in the Southeast region and I'm interested in whether anyone knows of a service company in Florida that has experience replacing the black water tank.Also, if anyone has gone through this process and has any advice or suggestions, that would be great.Thanks. Bill
Re: Black water tank replacement Reply #1 – November 14, 2014, 01:22:58 pm Yahoo Message Number: 149521Bill, The first thing I would do is drain and flush the tank as best you can. Then leave drain valve opened so tank can dry out inside. This will make things more pleasant for the repair person. Having R&R the toilet a few times in my rig this advice given to me and it helped. It's nice to have a surgical mask when doing this work.BTW if you have some Eternabond Tape you may be able to effect a temporary repair. Clean surfaces well with alcohol or some other cleaner that doesn't leave a residue. Good luck.Bob
Re: Black water tank replacement Reply #2 – November 14, 2014, 01:58:10 pm Yahoo Message Number: 1495250 Attachment"We have to replace our black tank after it cracked during a rear tire blow out. The crack is near the top, so it is not currently leaking. Also, if anyone has gone through this process and has any advice or suggestions, that would be great."BillAs Bob mentioned, Eternabond tape can make long-term repairs on the holding tanks, depending on how bad the break is. Many RV shops have plastic welding equipment, check around. Those that don't may use the services of a plastic fabrication and repair shop. The plastic is very repairable and can cracks be welded together, much cheaper than buying or having a new tank made.Larry
Re: Black water tank replacement Reply #3 – November 14, 2014, 03:50:47 pm Yahoo Message Number: 149528Another option.Plasti-Mend ABS Plastic Repair Kit for ABS Plastic Holding Tank Repair As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: Black water tank replacement Reply #4 – November 14, 2014, 06:04:23 pm Yahoo Message Number: 149530Thanks, Bob. Good advice on both fronts. I'm trying to source Eternabond here in Florida and will likely patch until we can get a new tank delivered. bb
Re: Black water tank replacement Reply #5 – November 14, 2014, 06:29:45 pm Yahoo Message Number: 149531Bill, Here are some eternabond distributers in FL. Roof Leak Repair Products & Sealing Tape | EternaBond®Bob
Re: Black water tank replacement Reply #6 – November 15, 2014, 12:34:06 am Yahoo Message Number: 149536One think to keep in the MH is a container of rock salt. Put a couple of cups in the tanks depending how much water is in the tanks. It will not cause rust. This is the cheapest place that I know of that sell the Eternabond line of products. They have all widths and sell by the roll or foot. They also have the caulking. Eternabond RV roof repair tape White 4" 50 foot roll Eternabond RV roof repair tape White 4" 50 foot rol... US $60.50 New in eBay Motors, Parts & Accessories, RV, Trailer & Camper Parts View on www.ebay.com Preview by Yahoo They also have the best fan setup for the freg. We placed one of there fan sets in the freg and was able to reduce the cold setting by one and the temp was still 10 degrees colder. And the temp was down to the setting in two hours. The trick is that the fans are placed in front of the coils and blow the warm air into the coils. Takes less then 30 minutes to install. Dometic Refrigerator Dwluxe Fan to INCREASE cooling inside with metal grill Dometic Refrigerator Dwluxe Fan to INCREASE cooling i... US $17.50 New in eBay Motors, Parts & Accessories, RV, Trailer & Camper Parts View on www.ebay.com Preview by Yahoo GeorgeRetired Plumber View on www.eternabond.com Preview by Yahoo Bob
Refrigerator fans--finally something that makes a real difference Reply #7 – November 15, 2014, 03:50:02 pm Yahoo Message Number: 149544A couple of weeks ago I installed the fan assembly that George recommended. Having tried various fridge fans (internal and external) in the last ten years with minimal effect, I wasn't expecting anything dramatic. I have a Norcold N641 rather than the standard Dometic 2600 series fridge, and it already performs well: I normally keep the thermostat set on 5 out of a possible 9 (coldest).The results surprised me. First, I found that I almost immediately had to reduce the thermostat's setting from 5 to 3 (less cold). That has to mean less propane used when boondocking.Then over the next few days I realized that the fridge and freezer temperatures, which had previously varied quite a bit in the course of a day, were remaining stable within a few degrees both day and night. That was a benefit I hadn't expected, but it's a very nice one.I'm convinced--these things really work! It was the best twenty bucks or so that I've spent in a long time. I also want to say a good word about the company's customer service. While installing the first set of fans I got, I clumsily dropped them and broke one of the fans. I wrote to the owner, explaining that it was entirely my fault and asking whether I could buy a replacement fan. His reply: "Send the whole unit back and I'll send you a replacement for two bucks shipping." So I did, and he did. :-) That's exceptionally generous.Andy BairdTravels with Andy
Re: Refrigerator fans--finally something that makes a real differenc Reply #8 – November 15, 2014, 11:42:34 pm Yahoo Message Number: 149547Andy the bigest suprise to me was 3 week ago I made a trip to UT from Denver. In the past before using this fan it would take a day to a day and a half for the frig to come down to it low setting. This time I left Denver and stopped on the west side of the Eisenhower tunnel to check the tires and frig. Just under 90 minutes with the MH and trailer. To my supprise the frig was already down to temp. When I first got the unit I questioned the fact that the fans were set up to blow the warm air toward the cooling fins not away from the fins and into the storage area. I almost changed the direction that the fans blow the air. I was thinking that the cool air should be blow into the storage area.George Retired PlumberA couple of weeks ago I installed the fan assembly that George recommended. Having tried various fridge fans (internal and external) in the last ten years with minimal effect, I wasn't expecting anything dramatic. I have a Norcold N641 rather than the standard Dometic 2600 series fridge, and it already performs well: I normally keep the thermostat set on 5 out of a possible 9 (coldest).The results surprised me. First, I found that I almost immediately had to reduce the thermostat's setting from 5 to 3 (less cold). That has to mean less propane used when boondocking.Then over the next few days I realized that the fridge and freezer temperatures, which had previously varied quite a bit in the course of a day, were remaining stable within a few degrees both day and night. That was a benefit I hadn't expected, but it's a very nice one.
Re: Refrigerator fans--finally something that makes a real differenc Reply #9 – November 16, 2014, 08:24:11 am Yahoo Message Number: 149549It's interesting to hear some feedback on this fan. I bought the standard model over the summer and didn't really like it. I think it works, but it's noisy and it feels like the fan is much more powerful than needed. I plan to disassemble the dual fans and wire 1 of the 2 with zip ties under one of the racks. In other words, it seemed to me like a tornado when a gentle breeze would do the job.Rich '03 MB in NC
Refrigerator fans--finally something that makes a real difference Reply #10 – November 16, 2014, 08:28:38 am Yahoo Message Number: 149550Andy and George,How where did you hook up the power line?How does the fan attach to the cooling vanes?Thanks.Barry
Re: Refrigerator fans--finally something that makes a real differenc Reply #11 – November 16, 2014, 10:14:34 am Yahoo Message Number: 149551Thank you, Andy and George. I just ordered one. We may be stuck in Central FL all summer and can use all the fridge help we can get. We added a muffin fan last year to the outside fridge compartment somewhere. Would we still need that muffin fan with this?Marcia and Leon Panoply 2006 LD MB
Re: Refrigerator fans--finally something that makes a real differenc Reply #12 – November 16, 2014, 10:55:54 am Yahoo Message Number: 149552Andy and George, do you hear the fans when the door is closed, particularly while trying to sleep? If so, how noisy are they? Do you think they are too powerful as the OP suggested? I had a muffin fan installed once and took it out because it was so noisy.Chris
Re: Refrigerator fans--finally something that makes a real differenc Reply #13 – November 16, 2014, 11:02:30 am Yahoo Message Number: 149553Our LD has had a small computer fan mounted on the refrigerator's top shelf. It blows upward, increasing the natural thermo syphon's action. Seems to have been working fine for may years to maintain even temps. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157602104742183/ I'm now using a even smaller fan that is much quieter. One problem I had with fans is the noise at night. When it's quiet, you can hear even quiet fans. Can't imagine what two fans, turning at full speed sounds like. At some point additional air flow stops having an effect. Finding that spot is the quest.Adding another fan and getting better cooling results, shows the cooling system may have unused cooling capability. Guess hot weather would be the best time to test the theory. I would consider mounting two small fans right under the cooling fins and possibly fabricating a manifold to direct flow through all the fins. Too bad we can't see exactly how the cool and warm air moves inside the refrigerator to maximize fan placement.I wire refrigerator fans to the refrigerator's interior light switch. The fan's two power wires are connected to either side of the light switch. When the refrigerator's door is open, the fan is off. When the door is close, and the light turns off, the fan uses the light bulb's filament as a dropping resistor, allowing the fan to run even slower.Larry
Re: Refrigerator fans Reply #14 – November 16, 2014, 11:09:16 am Yahoo Message Number: 149554"I think it works, but it's noisy and it feels like the fan is much more powerful than needed."I'm not sure that I'd be able to judge by feel how powerful a fan needs to be to do the work these units do."I plan to disassemble the dual fans and wire 1 of the 2 with zip ties under one of the racks."By cutting the amount of air moved in half and then moving the single remaining fan away from the cooling fins (why?) you will severely degrade the unit's performance. It's your nickel, but I wouldn't do this.As for the noise, it's audible, but not annoying, to me at least. It might bother some people at night, if sleeping near the fridge. However, the fans can be switched off at night or anytime the noise bothers you. (I sleep with earplugs and can't even hear the fans at night, although they're just five feet away.About installation: the fans clip onto the cooling fins, and the clips provide the ground connection. All that's needed is a single wire to +12 V, and in most Dometic refrigerators, that's available at the interior light, which has a live 12 V terminal even when the door is shut. The fan kit includes a piggyback push-on (spade lug) connector, making installation quite easy--no soldering is required.With a few fridges, such as my Norcold, there's no live 12 V power inside the box once the door is shut. In these cases you need to slide the fan's 12 V wire through the condensate drain tube at the back of the fridge, which leads to the outside compartment. There you can use the included piggyback connector to attach to a 12 V lug at the controller board. Again, this is easy to do.A little bit of water-based "personal lubricant" such as Astroglide, KY Liquid or similar, makes it easy to slide the wire through the tube. (You can buy the same stuff, labeled as "Wire Pulling Lubricant," by the quart at Home Depot or Lowe's, but who needs that much?)Andy BairdTravels with Andy
Re: Refrigerator fans Reply #15 – November 16, 2014, 11:12:50 am Yahoo Message Number: 149555By the way the fan kit we're talking about draws just a quarter amp when running--six amp-hours per day if left on all the time. In other words, it isn't going to drain your batteries in normal use. Of course, if you store your rig, you will want to switch it off.Andy BairdTravels with Andy
Re: Refrigerator fans Reply #16 – November 16, 2014, 12:42:39 pm Yahoo Message Number: 149556Here is the pic from the sellers sight. Dometic Refrigerator Dwluxe Fan to INCREASE cooling inside with metal grillYou will see the clips that are used to attach the fan unit to the fins. I did need to use a screw driver to spread the holder to make it easy to place on the fins. The fans are rated at .14 amp each. Total .28 amp. On my test meter I had .27 total. I find that the frig runs much less so the power used by the frig when running off sets this power use some or most. One of the pic show the wire going down the drain tub to get power from the outside if there is no power at the light. Most frig have power at the light. I find the fans very very quite. After I get away from the frig I find the fans quite unless I stand and listen for them. The frig in my home kitchen makes by far more noise. I can not hear them when in bed. I have make several fans for use in the frig. One I tried was mounted over the light and it was the larger fan. I also tried the fan under the shelf with tie raps. Even the fan you buy that runs off 2 D bat. That I got rid of when the bat went dead and made me happy. None worked as good as this fan. The problem is all the fans we try only move a small amount of WARM air around the box. This fan not only moves the air but it takes the cold air off the coils and forces it into the box. In realty it is taking the cold from the coils and moving is into the box. The temp of the cools is well below freezing. Think of it this way. Place a block of ice in a room and set in front of the ice. Now place a fan at the other end of the room. No cold air. Right. Now place the fan behind the block of ice and blow the air over the ice. The air becomes very cold. Blow cold air not warm air. I was thinking of placing a fan on the out side of the frig but since I have used this fan all summer I begin to think there is no need for this. I'm a boondocker and there is a limit to the amount of power you want to give up to the frig. I all ways keep the frig on the lowest setting. 5 of 5 ( I like my Buds cold) and the frig would jump around 40 to 50 depending on the time of day and how hot is was out side. The frig was coolest in the morning and warmest in the evening. Now I keep the frig on 4 and it seams to stay at 28 to 34 most of the time. Like I said I like my BUDS cold. I have an indoor, out door thermometer on the face of the frig door that gives the temp of the room and the frig. The out door sender in laying in the drain tray below the coils. I was carrying an ice chest just to keep my beer cold and now I no longer carry the ice chest.
Re: Refrigerator fans Reply #17 – November 16, 2014, 01:42:52 pm Yahoo Message Number: 149557My main complaint is the noise. I don't notice it during the day, but I do notice it at night on the bunk or when sitting at the mid-bath dinette. I used to have one of the D-battery fans, which seems to move much less air but still works fine when pointed so air moves over the coils. I'm sure sensitivity to that kind of noise varies from person to person, but it's enough to make me reconsider. I figure half the fan will result in half the noise (or less).Rich '03MB in NC
Re: Refrigerator fans Reply #18 – November 16, 2014, 04:10:07 pm Yahoo Message Number: 149561Let's see, Rich. After removing one fan, when I calculate the noise reduction rating to achieve sound attenuation in accordance with ANSI S3.1974 "American Standard for Measurement of Real-Ear Hearing Protection Attenuation and Physical Attenuation of Ear Muffs", I find that... I think Andy had the best idea; just turn it off at night. I see in the photos there is a toggle switch on it. I agree, I wouldn't like night noise. It cools off nicely at night most everywhere I travel here in the West in the summer.ChrisThe values of sound attenuation used for calculation of the NRR are determined in accordance with ANSI S3.19 1974, "American National Standard for the Measurement of Real-Ear Hearing Protector Attenuation and Physical Attenuation of Earmuffs."
Re: Refrigerator fans Reply #19 – November 16, 2014, 10:57:41 pm Yahoo Message Number: 149573"I think Andy had the best idea; just turn it off at night. I see in the photos there is a toggle switch on it. I agree, I wouldn't like night noise. It cools off nicely at night most everywhere I travel here in the West in the summer."Having a source on continuous circulation has its merits, such as preventing inversion layers when the refrigerator is tightly packed. Maybe an inexpensive PWM speed control could be used to tailor the amount of circulation and noise or a smaller, secondary fan could also be used and left on all the time. When traveling in very hot weather, the refrigerator's temp rises during the day, then drops at night. This is when running the fan at night can make a big difference by ensuring as much heat as possible is removed during the cooler hours.I'm intrigued by the idea of mounting fans on or under the cooling fins and surprised that I hadn't seen it done before. Every air conditioner and home refrigerator has a fan blowing air over the cooling fins.Why RV refrigerators don't have cooling fans is a good question. Probably goes back to the early propane RV refrigerators that didn't have or need electricity, they had a pilot light, used a bulb thermostat and didn't have a circuit board or gas solenoid. The electronics were added later to existing models, replacing the mechanical controls, evolving it into today's RV refrigerator. Adding fan(s) would only add to the cost and both Dometic and Norcold seem obsessed with making them as cheaply as possible. The only upside is the reduction in weight. Our new Dometic probably weights 50% less than the one in our 1983 LD. Almost all the metal has been replaced with plastic.Larry
Re: Refrigerator fans Reply #20 – November 17, 2014, 01:13:16 am Yahoo Message Number: 149574Consider installing a 5 watt solar panel on the roof to run the fridge fan/s. Or a 10 watt panel and run a couple of muffing fans on the fridge outside vent door as well (as I posted in another thread). That way there's no need to turn the fans off at night, as the sun will do that pretty much automatically :^).The fans being discussed in this thread draw .25 amps total, so a 3 watt panel would do. 5 watt solar panels are available on ebay for $15 free shipping and can be roof mounted with double sided tape. Easy to get wires to the roof and/or into the fridge via drain tube.
Re: Refrigerator fans Reply #21 – November 17, 2014, 11:07:02 pm Yahoo Message Number: 149581"My main complaint is the noise. I don't notice it during the day, but I do notice it at night."The fans have a switch, so you can turn them off at night if the noise bothers you.Andy BairdTravels with Andy
Re: Refrigerator fans Reply #22 – November 18, 2014, 12:55:08 am Yahoo Message Number: 149585"My main complaint is the noise. I don't notice it during the day, but I do notice it at night."The fans have a switch, so you can turn them off at night if the noise bothers you.Andy BairdQuite hunting for the noise and it will go away. What do you RVer's do about the frig in the house. Did you move it out side or do you unplug it when you get home from work. Yes the fan makes a LITTLE noise if I stand there and LISTEN I can hear it; but once I walk away the noise is gone. How about that on-board gen. And the microwave; it made so much noise that we no longer make pop corn at night; even in a camp ground where we have shore power. Does the hum from the battery charger keep you awake. When your in a camp ground does the lights and city noise keep you awake. Did you quit using the lap top because the fan is to loud?. Does you mate go outside when you wash the dishes because the water pump makes to much noise. When you are in bed. Do you turn the HW tank off so the gas flame does not intrupt your sleep. And that clock that LD put in the the MH. That one second "tick" keep me awake so long I had to get rid of it. How about the furnace and air conditioning. I tried the 500 watt heating element in the air conditioner when in the camp ground but the fan made to much noise. So I turned the small electric heater on but it keep me awake also. I hear the click of the electronic thermostat just before the furnace comes on. And then I have to listen to the fan and flame. I hear the gas valve on the frig click on and off. And when I hear the click of the frig I wonder if it is going on or off so I listen, and I hear the gas flame and I know that it came on not off. Yes all these noises are there. Stop and listen closely and you will not sleep for many nights.
Re: Refrigerator fans Reply #23 – November 18, 2014, 09:34:57 pm Yahoo Message Number: 149602"What do you RVer's do about the frig in the house. Did you move it out side or do you unplug it when you get home from work."Dunno about you, but in the houses I've seen, the refrigerator isn't in the living room or (in my case) in the bedroom, five feet from the bed."Quite [sic] hunting for the noise and it will go away."OK, George--how about I stand on your toes, and when you yell "Ouch," I tell you to just ignore the pain? Your post shows an arrogant disregard for other people's feelings and needs. Maybe you can conveniently ignore anything that you don't like, but most of us can't--and not everybody can use my own solution (earplugs).Next time you're tempted to post something that says "You're all wimps and whiners," count to ten and then go drink a Bud, rather than insult the group.Andy BairdTravels with Andy
Re: Refrigerator fans Reply #24 – November 18, 2014, 10:22:36 pm Yahoo Message Number: 149603"Next time you're tempted to post something that says "You're all wimps and whiners," count to ten and then go drink a Bud, rather than insult the group."This is by far the best thing I have read in a long time. Please replace the parasites that lack decent common sense thought. Live and let live.Thank you for the reality check. I have never met an individual with such a negative personality at an LD event.I guess there's a message there.Bob
Topic: Black water tank replacement (Read 32 times)
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Topic: Black water tank replacement (Read 32 times)
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