Lazy Daze Owners' Group

Traveling cross country in LD with bikes, without car?

April 29, 2014, 11:51:05 am

Yahoo Message Number: 146003

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Hi everyone, My husband and I are planning to travel cross country in late summer with our 2004 26.5' LD and we are trying to figure out whether or not we should also bring our car along. We'll bring our bikes and would love to leave the car but we're not sure if we'll need it for running errands.

Has anyone done a longer trip bringing just the LD and bikes? Any thoughts or advice?

Thanks!

Best, Linnea

Re: Traveling cross country in LD with bikes, without car?

Reply #2 – April 29, 2014, 12:49:21 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 146005

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There's no simple or clear-cut answer to your question; each of us travels in different ways and has different requirements, interests, and travel styles.  Whether you tow a car on the cross-country jaunt depends on where you plan on going, how long you'll be at each 'stop', and what you want to see and do along the way. I don't carry a bike, so I can't comment on its usefulness, but having a car available for running around is definitely a 'plus'; there are many attractions and events that are awkward or difficult to have access to with just the rig.

I don't tow; my rig is a 24', so it's a little easier to navigate tighter areas and to find parking than a larger rig. However, if I'm in an area where using even the small motorhome for 'sightseeing' or general 'shooting around' would be a hassle (or impossible), I rent a (little) car.  It's not necessarily cheap to rent a car, but it's certainly convenient and 'freeing' to be able to leave the rig in a campground (or other) and 'goseedo' in a car.

As ever, YMMV.

Joan

Re: Traveling cross country in LD with bikes, without car?

Reply #4 – April 29, 2014, 01:16:49 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 146007

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A lot can depend on what your tolerance is for towing, and your style of travel.  The equipment requirements for towing, along with the continuing diminution of suitable vehicles to tow, have had us shy away from towing - with our Lazy Daze units, or even when we had a huge-o diesel pusher that could tow TEN THOUSAND pounds!  Madness!

Examining our travel style, it was obvious that the number of miles where we would actually hitch up a vehicle to the rear of our unit would not be commensurate with the cost to equip our units with the appropriate items to effect towing.  Adding to that the problems that I would read about, it seemed a no brainer for us to drive separately, even though our "toad" is a Sportsmobile van camper that gets, at best, 16 MPG on the road.

That particular vehicle is not towable, but does provide us with lovely accommodations for a day trip, or even an overnight or two, away from our main unit.  On its own, it provides the wherewithal to travel for a week or two in "tiny style" without too much anguish.

That said, this is what worked out for us.  Others may not find driving separately acceptable, but we managed with liberal use of good quality Motorola mobile radios.  We were actually pushed into trying this method out when we moved away from California to settle here in Arizona.  We had Gertie, and we had a small Toyota Tercel, to transport.  It is a thousand miles, and I had never driven that far in my life!  Gary had always done all of the vacation driving, and I tend to fall asleep with the drone of road noise, or other monotony.  Bad combination.

But . . . I priced what it would cost to have someone else drive the car for us . . . YIKES!  It was (back then = 1998) over $500., so I priced the Motorolas, and they came in at just a few dollars under that price.  So, I was brave - and a lot younger then - and we did it.  It wasn't so bad; almost pleasant, so we've been doing the same ever since.  The chattering on the radios helps to keep me conscious!

This is, of course, more difficult with only one person, and, in that case, I would probably opt to do what Joan does, as we tend to park and stay someplace for quite a while.  We have actually gone on two shortish trips with just the Lazy Daze alone, but both of those were for upgrades to the rig and not sightseeing.  It was a bit inconvenient from time to time, but we managed.  At the start of each trip, we just decided that if we needed transportation assistance, we would rent a car, or call a taxi.  Neither was ever necessary, so I was glad not to have dragged along the Sportsmobile, or even our sedan, on those trips.

Now it is more a matter of convenience to have the Sportsmobile along.  It provides supplemental storage, refrigeration, and a "retreat", as well as a "sag wagon" for day-long adventures in which a meal and/or nap is required.

We no longer carry bicycles, but for the ten years we had Gertie (a 1985 22-footer), we relied on bicycles for supplemental transportation, and that worked out just fine.  After retirement, though, we got lazy and went to the above-described method.  Of course an alternative is to drive a regular small car separately; the gas costs would be far less than what we incur with the Sportsmobile.  Work out your needs and intended use, and then price the equipment needed to effect it, and then stack that up against the cost of the extra fuel.  All bets are off if there is not another willing driver.  Or neither of you wants to do this at all.

Virtual hugs,

Judie http://dorrieanne.wordpress.com

Re: Traveling cross country in LD with bikes, without car?

Reply #6 – April 29, 2014, 04:31:51 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 146012

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My wife and I have been towing a vehicle behind our various motor homes for many years. We stopped doing this since a few years ago for the convenience to park in shopping centers for groceries or wherever there is a Starbucks. We love this kind of traveling and not always having to worry about parking with a tow vehicle behind our rig. However, when we were in Quartzsite last January with the Lazy Daze group we did miss secondary transportation. Always looking for rental places for cars is not always convenient either.
 Shortly after our return home to the San Francisco Bay Area we saw some pictures of Jeanne Bold's Lazy Daze with a scooter on the back of her rig. This gave us ideas and pursued it. Although we have not traveled with it yet, we did buy one and I am currently driving it around town here with a learner's permit. Beside not being that young any longer I do enjoy riding it.
 If one shops around one can buy a scooter very reasonable. Some people buy a used one on Craigslist. After considering the pros and cons I decided to buy a new one from a local dealer. I am looking forward to get my permanent license so I can start using it with our Lazy Daze trips with my wife on the back.
 Just another thought for those weighing whether to tow or not to tow.

Aad Rommelse Fremont, CA

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Re: Traveling cross country in LD with bikes, without car?

Reply #8 – April 29, 2014, 05:27:13 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 146015

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The 'scooter' issue always follows shortly behind any discussion of towing or not towing; there have been many posts on the topic over the years.  Here are just a very few message numbers and comments/information to check out; doing a message board search will bring up more:

132271 132256 132239 122976

Message #95762 details Jon Calhoun's Vespa-hauling set-up; a follow-up message from Jon (with a photo link) is #114322.

If I were going to carry a "scooter" on the rear of my rig, I'd have essentially the same set-up as Jon Calhoun, i.e., a carrier that has *two hitch points*; see posts 95762 and 114322, among others. The single motorcycle carrier from VersaHaul is 6' long, and even with the advertised "anti-tilt" feature, a 6' long ramp with a 300+ pound load attached at a *single hitch point*, seems to me to be inherently unstable and subject to potential "twist, pitch, and end sag", even if the hitch and its attachment to the frame are capable of carrying the weight of the carrier and the bike.

Joan

Re: Traveling cross country in LD with bikes, without car?

Reply #10 – April 29, 2014, 07:09:45 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 146017

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HI and Welcome.  Last year we traveled out west for about 5 weeks in our 27 foot mid-bath.  We did not tow and did not miss much.  We did Badlands NP, Mt. Rushmore, Crazy Horse, Fort Laramie, Rocky Mt. NP, Dinosaur NM, Grand Teton NP, Yellowstone NP, Disneyland, Santa Monica Pier, and many things in between.  We drove through smaller towns like Fort Collins CO, Estes Park CO, Jackson WY, West Yellowstone MT, and larger cities like Salt Lake City, LA, Anaheim, and through other highways and byways.  We saw and did everything we wanted and had no trouble driving or parking.  If we needed to do so, we would opt for renting a car if necessary.  How you travel is a personal decision, but I wanted to let you know that it is possible to travel this great country of ours in a 27 foot RV without a toad.  Best wishes on your trip.

Bob

Re: Traveling cross country in LD with bikes, without car?

Reply #12 – April 30, 2014, 01:23:40 am

Yahoo Message Number: 146020

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I've traveled without and with a towed car, and I've tried carrying a bike. Here's my experience:

1. The bike proved useless as a toad substitute. There are very few campgrounds I'd want to stay in that are close enough to civilization to make it practical to ride a bike into town for groceries or to collect mail. And of course it's mainly a fair-weather mode of transportation. Bike for recreation? Fine. For errands? Not very practical, at least for me.

2. Traveling without a towed car is certainly possible, and saves a lot of money. It also makes your rig more maneuverable, since when towing, you can't back up without risking expensive damage to the towed car's front suspension. With a 23-footer, you can even fit into most parking spaces.

The drawbacks are that you will have to carefully schedule your errand runs, since once you're established at a campsite, it's a major pain to pull up stakes just to go to town for a quart of milk.

My usual practice was to do everything between campgrounds. When moving from campground A to campground B, I'd first dump and fill, then stop in the nearest town along the route and fill up with gas and propane, pick up mail, buy groceries and do laundry. Then I'd proceed to campground B. Doing all the errands on one day made "moving days" long and tiring, and I had to plan carefully in order not to run out of perishable items such as salad greens and milk in between times.

Of course if you're in hectic move-every-day "tourist mode," this may not be such a big deal to you. But few RVers can keep that up for long. Most of us soon relax into a more leisurely lifestyle, moving only every week or two.

3. Renting a car sounds like a good idea. For years I told myself that I could always rent a car if I really needed one. But I never did, because it just takes too much advance planning. Picture this: "Honey we're all out of eggs. Could you please rent a car and go get a dozen? And some coffee while you're at it."  
   Or suppose the couple in the next campsite mention that there's a concert tonight in the next town up the road, and you'd love to go... but you'd need to rent a car on an hour's notice to do it. Not likely. Unless you can hitch a ride with friends or neighbors, you're going to miss that concert. Oh, I did hitch rides with friends many times during the years when I was traveling toad-less... but I got tired of relying on others for transportation.

4. I've never traveled with a scooter, but for ten years in my forties and fifties, while living in a condo, I rode a Honda CN250 Helix scooter. I considered RVing with it, but hanging several hundred pounds off the back bumper didn't seem like the best idea from a handling standpoint... and although a large scooter can get you into town (unlike a bicycle), it's not fun to ride in wet or cold weather. (I did a fair amount of both, so I know.)  
   And needless to say, the amount of groceries you can carry on a scooter is pretty limited. Finally, if you should happen to get into an accident on a scooter or motorcycle, your chances of dying are statistically ten times higher than if you have an accident in a car. Still, a scooter or light motorcycle is much less expensive than a towed car, so it's worth considering. If you go this route, please take the Motorcycle Safety Foundation's Basic Ridercourse! A motorcycle is not like a car, and you'll need all the training you can get if you want to stay safe on the road.

5. As many of you know, as soon as I could afford a towed car, I bought one (a Honda Fit five years ago, traded for a Subaru Forester last month). Having a toad has expended my horizons greatly, letting me explore local attractions rather than just sit in my motorhome at my campsite, and drive into town anytime I want, without breaking camp or worrying about the cost of gas. (And that's not to mention the ability to mount my kayak on top of the car and take it to any lake in the area.)

I'm very happy with my current midbath-plus-car setup, even though I do have to carefully scope out any gas station before entering, to ensure that I'll be able to get out again without backing up. ;-) But as others have said, what works best for me may not work best for you, depending upon your traveling style.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels

Re: Traveling cross country in LD with bikes, without car?

Reply #14 – April 30, 2014, 08:50:47 am

Yahoo Message Number: 146022

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Bev and Tim:
 I'll chime in here because we're closing in on completing our 7th year of extended traveling in our mid-bath LD.  And to be clear, this has been our only RV experience.
 The Captain did do the Boy Scout camping thing a few times and we did "camp" while on photograph safari in Africa, but no RV-ing.
 We ramble 7 months of the year in our LD, generally coast-to-coast, but twice have spent the winter in south Florida.  We keep a small condo as home base.
 We sleep on the couches in the rear, pulled together as an oversize king...we find them comfortable.  When we scoped out the LDs at the Mothership, we went with the idea of a 27' rear queen, but came to realize that the MB was more suited to us.  We never planned to sleep in the cabover queen due to needing to get up (each of us) in  the night on separate schedules...sleeping on the sofas, heads to rear-feet to front, allows each of us to do that without waking the other.
 Our 9 1/2 week maiden voyage across the country was without a car and our first winter out we rented a car.  However, we realized that we needed to tow and outfitted our Saturn L300 with a tow kit and have a Blue Ox tow system that works very well for us.
 We like to see museums, galleries and gardens and other attractions and sites, often in big cities.  Having a car makes that much easier (do not ever attempt to enter the Getty Center in LA in an RV).
 Having said all of this, what is great for us may not be suitable to what you want to do/see.  For many folks, hitting nature's trail and enjoying remote campsites is the ticket, and a car just doesn't add to the experience.
 If you read enough of the LWALD postings from the past, you'll understand that we have a wide  range of interests and styles represented, and nobody does it wrong, everybody does it just right.

TinaP 2006 MB "Wild Thing"

On Wednesday, April 30, 2014 7:24 AM, Tim And Bev  wrote:

Re: Traveling cross country in LD with bikes, without car?

Reply #16 – April 30, 2014, 11:25:40 am

Yahoo Message Number: 146024

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I spent a couple of winters without a car and with my 23.5 foot LD.  I did fine, but I cheated, I carried a 125cc Yamaha Scooter on a rear rack.  This worked out great, provided that I didn't want to go to the store on a rainy day!

Zip Car - Traveling cross country in LD

Reply #18 – April 30, 2014, 12:28:39 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 146026

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We were back in DC/NYC two weeks ago, and had a chance to rent a Zip car for a day to visit relatives out by Dulles.
 I wasn't sure how well it would work out, but we had seen the same rental cars in SF on many occasions, and thought the concept appeared sound. So anyway, we got the paperwork completed a few weeks before we took off for the east coast and were good to go.
 Our particular car was located in a parking garage across from our hotel, so we walked over, jumped in and took off. How did we get a key? You don't - the card they send after processing your application has some kind of RFID device that you simply wand over the UPC on the windshield and voila'; ditto for starting the vehicle.
 The car was a nice, low mileage Nissa Sentra, so no complaints there. DC has all kinds of toll roads, so as I was sitting in the cash line, DW called ZC customer service to see if they had a built in fast pass type of scanner. Well, of course they did - I could see it on the windshield once they confirmed over the phone. So, thereafter, we just 'zipped' around through the automated tolls.
 But, it gets better. You're supposed to keep the gas tank 1/2 full, but you don't need to use your own cash. Rather, they have another RFID device for the credit card readers at major gas stations. Once again, wand and go.
 By the time we returned to DC the next day at the end of our 24 hr period (I think you can rent as low as 2 hr increments), I was a raving Zip car fan-boi. It's a really well thought out concept which is probably only made possible by the 'Net and mobile devices.
 I think the full day rate is a little more expensive than a 'normal' rental place, but the simple go & drive concept is killer. For instance, I think we would have had to go to Reagan Nat'l to get a regular rental car. In addition, the partial day availability is really great.
 I was so stoked, we looked into a Zip car location around the corner from our hotel in NYC. I've driven in/out of the city on a few occasions in the past, and was thinking it be would fun to 'zip' around for a few hours on a quiet Sunday am drive, but we ran out of time from doing so many other things.
 Still, a great concept and something people may consider as part of the rental car option sans towing.

Re: Traveling cross country in LD with bikes, without car?

Reply #20 – April 30, 2014, 02:24:39 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 146028

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Jon, in my message #146015, I posted a few message numbers re: the 'scoot' topic.  Your hitch explanation/review and photos message numbers are listed, and, IMO, are 'must-reads' when considering the safest, strongest, and most functional mode to haul a 300+-pound item on the rear of a rig, particularly on a 27' (or a 31') with a longer rear overhang than the 24'.  (Jon's 24' uses a carrier with a two-point mount.)

If I were to carry a scooter (with sufficient displacement to keep up with traffic,i.e., 250cc, let alone ride two up), there would be *no way* that I would use a single-point hitch mount and carrier; IMO, a 'one holer' would not do the job for this size/weight of two-wheeler. I've seen plenty of 'kludge' lash-ups to carry scooters on the backs of rigs, even light 50cc bikes, and I stay well away from them on the road.  The driver (and/or passenger) are very likely unaware of the 'bike' bouncing and swaying; unless they have a rear camera (or drive separately), how are they going to see it? The torque on a single-point hitch connection caused by a heavy, 'long' load is *significant*; physics!

As ever, YMMV!

Joan

Re: Traveling cross country in LD with bikes, without car?

Reply #22 – April 30, 2014, 03:37:00 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 146030

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I generally carry my 125 cc Yamaha, but spouse and I have carried his Aprilia SportCity, a 250cc bike.  The rack we use is a heavy duty VersaHaul rack on a single point but heavy duty hitch.  It doesn't move a bit.

Re: Traveling cross country in LD with bikes, without car?

Reply #24 – April 30, 2014, 07:28:40 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 146033

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Like others that have commented I full timed without a toad for about a year and then considered a small trail bike as opposed to the toad. But handling issues from hanging 300 pounds off a rear hitch really concerned me. So I opted for the toad and it made everything so much more convenient. With a properly set up tow bar like a Roadmaster, Blue Ox, etc. there is really very little effect on handling because tongue weight is almost non existent. But be warned it will spoil you. I was without my Toad recently for about 6 weeks while it was getting engine/exhaust upgrades and repairs and I really missed it. Having picked it up today I am pleased again. I haven't met anyone yet that regretted getting a Toad. Good luck and happy trails whatever you decide.

Bob 01 23.5 TK, Jeep Cherokee Toad back home again.