How old is TOO old? March 22, 2013, 11:38:47 pm Yahoo Message Number: 137636So I won't be buying a new LD. Or even a 5 year old one. But when I get into the $$ I want to spend, they are getting old.... 1988, 1985, even 1981. Chevy and Dodge. How old is too old? Is an old Chevy better than an old Dodge? ? Will I end up wishing I'd sprung for 5 years newer, or a Ford? I kind of like old stuff, vintage style, so it's not the interiors that bother me. It's buying a money pit. Anybody own 1981-1986 LDs? I have been averaging 8000 miles a year in my Class B. Thanks for any advice!
Re: How old is TOO old? Reply #1 – March 23, 2013, 12:01:51 am Yahoo Message Number: 137642I think that how old depends on how much you can do of what is needed. I have an '84, and most weeks I get at least a few days out on the road; ....but, I always have some maintenance to do, some planned and some unplanned. If I had to pay someone else to do all of the work that is needed, it would be a money pit. Lots of jobs that I have done are $25 to $100 for parts and $500 or more for labor.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: How old is TOO old? Reply #2 – March 23, 2013, 10:52:44 pm Yahoo Message Number: 137675I have an 82 and it runs like a top. I prefer older units that don't have too many things that can't be worked on without special equipment. I also prefer not having an air bag aimed at me so pre 97 is a must. What I don't like about the older units is all the rust. I wish they were built with non rusting fasteners and given an undercoating. The old ones have already depreciated so what you put into it will be compensated for by not suffering depreciation losses.imho,*Michelle Ress*[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: How old is TOO old? Reply #3 – March 23, 2013, 10:55:59 pm Yahoo Message Number: 137676My recommendations:1. New enough to have fuel injection. That gave vehicles a major improvement in driveability and fuel mileage. What you save in buying a carbureted engine might be lost through increased gasoline purchases. 2. Buy the newest one you can afford. Safety improvements are made through the years, and the newer ones will more of them, such as better safety belt systems, airbags, anti-lock braking, etc.In this case, I think it's better to spend the money up front. The things I mentioned can not be bought later.Eric Greenwell
Re: How old is TOO old? Reply #4 – March 23, 2013, 11:25:13 pm Yahoo Message Number: 137679"My recommendations:1. New enough to have fuel injection. That gave vehicles a major improvement in driveability and fuel mileage. What you save in buying a carbureted engine might be lost through increased gasoline purchases.2. Buy the newest one you can afford. Safety improvements are made through the years, and the newer ones will more of them, such as better safety belt systems, airbags, anti-lock braking, etc.In this case, I think it's better to spend the money up front." I'm with Eric. Yes, if you are mechanically skilled and have time to spend on doing your own repairs (and if you're not planning on fulltiming), an older rig can be a bargain. But if you just want a relatively trouble-free full-time home on wheels, buy the newest Lazy Daze you can afford.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: How old is TOO old? Reply #5 – March 24, 2013, 02:09:20 am Yahoo Message Number: 137683"In this case, I think it's better to spend the money up front. The things I mentioned can not be bought later."Eric100% agreement. Too many forum members have bought old LDs thinking they can fix them up for a few bucks and have a dependable RV. Too many dreams have turned into nightmares. How many 20-30 year-old used cars are ready to head across the county, with a few repairs?...not many. Now add a 20-30 year-old home to the equation. These vehicles can be incredibly expensive to rehab, even if you can do much of the work required yourself. Most every thing costs 2-3 times as much as a passenger car. Now take into consideration the huge improvements in mechanical dependability, power, fuel economy and safety, it's no contest, IMO. I have own two LDs, a used 1983 22' FL, for almost 9 years, a new 2003 23.5' and have worked on dozens of LDs of various vintages...newer is better in almost every way. When buying used, it has always been our advice to have the entire vehicle professionally inspected. It can save you many thousands of dollars and loads of aggravation and time wasted on repairs. Many expensive problems are not discovered until after purchasing. I would not touch an LD older than a 1991 model for the reasons mentioned in a previous posting. I would recommend sticking with a 2000 and newer Ford chassis, they have much longer lifetimes than the Chevy G-30 models. No matter what you buy, keep several thousands dollars in reserve for repairs and replacementsThe idea is to travel, not to spend excessive time making repairs. Pay upfront or pay later, it's your choice.Last point, RVing is not a cheap way to travel. If you want to travel inexpensively, buy a tent.Larry 1 Likes
Re: How old is TOO old? Reply #6 – March 24, 2013, 11:51:04 am Yahoo Message Number: 137688"Larry" wrote: The idea is to travel, not to spend excessive time making repairs. Pay upfront or pay later, it's your choice. Last point, RVing is not a cheap way to travel. --- All of Larry's advice is right on; he has certainly worked on/repaired/rebuilt a boatload of LDs, and speaks from a very strong base of experience! I think that many people considering buying an RV of any age, but particularly an old one, don't go much further than asking the "wrong" questions before the stars in their eyes put there by visions of a romantic, open-road lifestyle push them to make the leap, often into a big hole of regret and ongoing expense for not educating themselves as thoroughly as possible and doing the necessary pre-purchase homework. Some might soft-pedal their responses to the questions: "What kind of mileage does it get?" "I can only afford X$; what can I get for that?", and, "Do I need to have it inspected before I buy it?" so as not to scare off the "asker"; IMO, realistic answers are ultimately far more enlightening! "It's a heavy vehicle with a big engine; if you consistently average 8-9 mpg (10 if you're lucky), you won't have to keep stuffing quite so many $100-dollar bills into the tank." "For that $, you won't get much, and you'll likely spend two to three times that amount re-habbing it to get it ready to go down the road safely." "Are you serious?" I don't mean these comments to dissuade anyone from buying an older motorhome; there are good values to be had in well-maintained rigs, but making a smart purchase requires time, a lot of self-education about what to look for in buying any RV, new or older, accepting help and advice from those who have "been there, done that", and realizing the fact that the purchase price of any RV is just the beginning! My LD is my "escape pod" and my vastly-preferred way to travel, but if I counted up all the cash I've laid out over many years of this kind of travel, I'd likely never leave the house again! We all make our choices; Rving is a wonderful lifestyle, but, as Larry stated, *no part of it* is inexpensive, and poor buying and maintenance decisions can considerably up the costs and the aggravation factors. This link is to one of many pre-purchase inspection checklists available online and, IMO, should be studied, understood, and followed diligently: http://changingears.com/rv-checklist-inspection.shtml?sec-checklistAs ever, YMMV!Joan
Re: How old is TOO old? Reply #7 – March 24, 2013, 03:30:19 pm Yahoo Message Number: 137695My 2 cents worth is get something new enough that has the Ford V10 engine. It gets slightly better gas mileage than the older models and has proven to be durable. I have seen 2 LD's with 164K and 197K miles on the stock Ford V10 still running good. If you are getting a 23.5 ft. model get a 2003 or later as they have the E450 chassis with increased CCC and bigger brakes vs. the older E350 like mine.Check all the service records to make sure maintenance was done on time. Take someone well versed
Re: How old is TOO old? Reply #8 – March 24, 2013, 08:04:25 pm Yahoo Message Number: 137704I wonder if any of you who advocate such a rigorous going over of a LD before purchase put your spouses through such a test or if you would consent to having them put you through such a test. My guess is no credit checks, no physical exams, no background checks nothing like that. No pre-nups maybe some financial questions but mainly went on your hearts' leading. As for my experience I bought the first LD I came across purely on the feeling I got from this group and thank goodness my partner likes older women or I'd have been left at the curb. I'm 70. When I bought mine it was in a mechanic's driveway with a water leak. Turned out needing a new radiator. Well I bought her and it took two attempts to get her home. That was years ago and it was an adventure and is still an adventure. Maybe I was a fool who knows but she gets us where we want to go and back home again without breaking down. I suppose if you just want something someone else built to move into and drive around then a newer one is the way to go but if you want something you can strip of all the conventional furnishings without feeling like you ruined something of value then an older one might fit the ticket. If I had it to do over again I'd likely buy an empty van, bus, or truck and build the insides to suit my taste rather than do extensive remodeling. I'll likely drive mine until the engine or tranny blows then decide whether to let her go or fix her. So far all the expenses have been easy to handle. My background comes from sailing: I've built one sale boat and restored one derelict. The question back then was do you want to be a sailor or a carpenter? I ended up with about two years of sailing and 14 years of carpentry so I'm used to do things the hard way. There is also the financial aspect. It's a lot easier to fork out smaller chunks of money for repairs spread out over time than it is to hand over a larger lump sum unless you have it. There is also the ecology of keeping things out of the dump. If you look at collector's vehicles it's the old ones that are cherished more than the newer ones. I would have been hard pressed to do a spray can camo paint job on a newer one but it was easy with an old one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/safoocat/sets/72157607826626518/*Michelle Ress*[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: How old is TOO old? Reply #9 – March 24, 2013, 10:29:15 pm Yahoo Message Number: 137708"I wonder if any of you who advocate such a rigorous going over of a LD before purchase put your spouses through such a test..." Good analogy, but let's take it a step further: buying a motorhome without inspecting it is like marrying someone after a single date.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/ 1 Likes
Re: How old is TOO old? Reply #10 – March 25, 2013, 10:10:52 am Yahoo Message Number: 137717Good one Andy. Interestingly Cathy, my partner of 16 years, and I met from an internet group, had one date (gay bingo) and she invited me to move in with her. We've been together ever since as domestic partners; it does happen. Kinda like doing rescue. At the moment we have four dogs, all rescues, all taken after a brief meetup with the giving party, and though they are trouble from time to time, we have no regrets and over the years there have been a string of other rescues who have gone on to the Rainbow Bridge. It must be in the blood of some of us. I realize this is a group of very responsible people who have worked hard, saved their money, and now want to enjoy it and I don't fault that lifestyle one bit. Rarely have I had enough money to buy a newer rig and I won't borrow so for me it was out of the question.Thanks for letting me ramble,*Michelle Ress *Good analogy, but let's take it a step further: buying a motorhome without inspecting it is like marrying someone after a single date.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/andybaird@...?subject=Re%3A%20How%20old%20is%20TOO%20old%3F>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: How old is TOO old? Reply #11 – March 25, 2013, 10:43:51 am Yahoo Message Number: 137718Let me get this straight. Your comparing purchasing vehicles to peoples relationships? My wife has been dead for a few years but I "test drove" her for many years before we married. All this has nothing to do with shopping for a Lazy Daze or any other vehicle. It should be a logical, not emotional event unless you are willing to be taken. Wake up.Bob 01 23.5 TK, Jeep Cherokee Toad"
Re: How old is TOO old? Reply #12 – March 25, 2013, 11:08:55 am Yahoo Message Number: 137719Congratulations, Michelle, to you and Cathy. Hope to meet you both on the road sometime.Joe
Re: How old is TOO old? Reply #13 – March 25, 2013, 11:30:13 am Yahoo Message Number: 137722QuoteGood analogy, but let's take it a step further: buying a motorhome without inspecting it is like marrying someone after a single date.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/ Ya, I rather think of it as an "arranged marriage"- where I am now stuck with this rig that is the love of my life. Did you know that people
How old is TOO old? Reply #14 – March 25, 2013, 03:55:26 pm Yahoo Message Number: 137725As others have pointed out, RVing isn't cheap, so the questions really become: how much do you want to pay, and when do you want to pay - now or later?If you buy a new(er) vehicle, the primary cost will be incurred
Re: How old is TOO old? Reply #15 – March 25, 2013, 06:39:01 pm Yahoo Message Number: 137728So Bob........How do you know SHE wasn't "test driving" YOU??My wife has been dead for a few years but I "test drove"
Re: How old is TOO old? Reply #16 – March 25, 2013, 11:02:13 pm Yahoo Message Number: 137732Too Old? "Ok, so having done the numbers, and deciding to focus on a 15-20 year old RV, which chassis is preferred? " As this relates to a LD, For me there is more to this decision than just getting parts. From a reliability stand point they are about the same, Parts are plentiful for both, and can be found almost anywhere!The big question is how you plan to use or drive your vintage LD! If you plan to tow something substantial or plan to load up with gear etc! I say go Ford, it will have the largest motor you will find in a LD chassis under 30' A Chevy LD will come with a carbureted 350 ci gas or worse a rare 6.2l diesel small block which is not fun without a turbo! Without debating ford vs chevy most would agree neither available chevy small block compares to a ford 460 ci engine. I think the best deal to be had right now in a vintage coach is a LD with a Ford 460, years 1989-91 on the e350! Ford was the first to offer fuel injection and overdrive in 1989, so they get pretty decent mileage, the front chairs still spin around and if you get a 91 no front window either, plus they sell for thousands less than a 92. 91 is the last year of the body years 77-91. 92-97 are virtually the same as a 88-91 mechanically, however early Ford OD transmissions can have issues and should to be addressed before they arise. The early E40D had a few weaknesses, add A shift kit, triple clutch torque converter, and the redesigned MPLS sensor and your good to go! The E40D evolved and by 95 it was pretty well sorted out. The fixes i listed for 89-94 E40D's would cover most of the common failures, and they can be corrected or upgraded if needed.Sent by wireless
Re: How old is TOO old? Reply #17 – March 26, 2013, 07:13:52 am Yahoo Message Number: 137733"A Chevy LD will come with a carbureted 350 ci gas or worse a rare 6.2l diesel small block which is not fun without a turbo!" I think this thread is as good an example as there can be of YMMV and one size does not fit all. I hunted until I found a diesel, flew to San Francisco and drove it home. In the four years I've had it we've been on both coasts and a couple of trips to Colorado and New Mexico. Getting stuck in the snow in July was not fun, and we had to go pretty high to do that. ...Otherwise it has been a lot of fun.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: How old is TOO old? Reply #18 – March 26, 2013, 08:31:25 am Yahoo Message Number: 137734"A Chevy LD will come with a carbureted 350 ci gas or worse a rare 6.2l diesel small block which is not fun without a turbo!" Our 1989 and our current 1994 didn't/don't have carbed 350's. They were both fuel injected. But they both lack the power to climb mountains with a single bound. Both were just fine east of the Rockies.John A Wozniak
Ford vs Chevy Reply #19 – March 26, 2013, 10:10:35 am Yahoo Message Number: 137735Resurrecting the ageless Ford v Chevy debate would really give Andy a run for his money, perhaps comparable to politics & religion. LOL (Just for the record, I restored a beautiful '63 Ranchero when I was younger, and drove a nice '88 LX 5.0 for a few years before our son was born.) Did LDs using the Ford chassis ever come with the small block 351, or were they always equipped with the big block 460? I agree the Chevy 350 would be too small to power their larger rigs, but I believe they started out
Re: Ford vs Chevy Reply #20 – March 26, 2013, 11:35:01 am Yahoo Message Number: 137736If "Government Motors" engines and chassis are so well thought of, what did the mothership discontinue their use
Re: Ford vs Chevy Reply #21 – March 26, 2013, 08:37:58 pm Yahoo Message Number: 137738QuoteIf "Government Motors" engines and chassis are so well thought of, what did the mothership discontinue their use in 1998? LOL James 2011 TK LD discontinued them - as did all RV manufacturers - when GM stopped making them....Steve
Re: Ford vs Chevy Reply #22 – March 27, 2013, 11:31:32 am Yahoo Message Number: 137742Therefore: GM couldn't sell enough of them to warrant continuation. I wonder why. James
Re: Ford vs Chevy Reply #23 – March 27, 2013, 11:55:55 am Yahoo Message Number: 137743QuoteTherefore: GM couldn't sell enough of them to warrant continuation. I wonder why. James I suspect GM sold virtually every one it manufactured - and still decided the market was not profitable. It never offered a higher GVWR chassis to support the heavier coaches as Ford did, as it would have required a redesigned front suspension and heavier chassis. I get the impression you are anti-GM for some reason. However, I can say without reservation that our '83 G-30 FL drove and steered more smoothly that our '04 E-450 FL, especially on twisty mountain roads. I am NOT saying that it was overall better than the Ford, just that it also had its design strengths - and weaknesses.Steve
Re: Ford vs Chevy Reply #24 – March 27, 2013, 11:59:20 am Yahoo Message Number: 137744QuoteLD discontinued them - as did all RV manufacturers - when GM stopped making them....Steve The story I heard was that for some reason GM PO'ed Ed over some issue in the '90's so he stopped dealing with them. Fast forward to Steve and the Kodiak fiasco. After displeasing two Newtons methinks it will be a cold day in hell before you see a GM bow tie on a LD product. GM must be still making cutaways because I see new class C rigs now and then - mostly from rental fleets.John '12FD
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