Help! ... Speedometer Failure February 17, 2013, 12:00:49 pm Yahoo Message Number: 136857Well, fellow LDers, we are experiencing a bit of a problem out here in California desert country. Driving from Indio to Tucson with our 1998 LD MB, I felt a jerk in the transmission and a drooping of the speedometer. Within minutes, the speedometer went to zero and the transmission (I guess) had a few jerks. Seemed to be stuck in low gear. The good news is we were very close to Blyth, CA. Not exactly a dynamic metropolis but...we successfully limped into the Ford Dealer and had a mechanic look at the rig. His first question was, "Is this a Class A or Class C?" Oh, Oh. Not exactly good news. But he did go about checking the engine area and lines underneath. He eventually thought it might be the speedsensor. Tried it, and rode around for a while, but no cigar. Didn't seem to make a difference. (Does the 1998 Ford E450 have a cable for the speedometer or is it all electronics?) Thus, here we sit in the parking lot of the Larry Green Ford Dealer in the jumping town of Blythe, CA, for the weekend. I looked up info on the internet and keep thinking what if it's about the transmission as well. Dollar signs keep flashing in my mind. We hope a new part will arrive here from Phoenix on Monday and solve the problem. In the meantime, since I really don't have much confidence in the one mechanic here, do you have any suggestions? Anyone have similar problems in the past with their speedometer?One person suggested we should have it towed to a reputable Ford or RV Service in Phoenix. Any suggestions for honest, capable RV Repair in Blythe, Quartzsite or Phoenix area? Or, Tucson? Any suggestions appreciated. (We've never had any mechanical problems before with our 1998 Ford 450 so this is a new experience.)Many thanks...from Stranded in Blythe, David and Nola
Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failure Reply #1 – February 17, 2013, 12:20:57 pm Yahoo Message Number: 136859I had a '99 F250 w/ manual transmission. The speedometer failed, jumped around and often rested on zero. The part required was the speed sensor
Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failure Reply #2 – February 17, 2013, 03:06:55 pm Yahoo Message Number: 136867You don't need an RV Service Center...you need a Ford dealer or someone who is a competent transmission mechanic. If you had a Dodge, I could highly recommend Fisher Dodge in Yuma, but I don't know anything about Ford dealerships. However, don't discount having it towed to Yuma since it's much closer than Phoenix or Tucson from your current location. Bypass Quartzsite!Linda Hylton http://earl-linda.blogspot.com
Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failure Reply #3 – February 17, 2013, 03:17:16 pm Yahoo Message Number: 136868And neither would I. We had trouble with the transmission on our Dodge (the whole long, sad, story is on our blog if you're interested...with the final chapter yet to be written). We were stranded in Alturas, CA for 8 days while it was repaired and when we finally made it down to our winter place, we called up Larry Green Dodge/Ford/Jeep/Everything Else (i.e., the only game in town) to have the transmission oil changed again at the suggestion of the mechanic in Alturas. When they found out what we'd had done in Alturas, they're response was that what the mechanic did was wrong and to bring the truck into them and they'd re-do all the work. Yea, right! We may not be the smartest people on the planet, but we didn't just fall off the turnip truck! Anyway, we won't be taking our vehicles to Larry Green in Blythe anytime soon. If it's something simple like a magnetic pickup coil that "tpild" (?) mentioned, OK; but if they want to tear down your transmission and put in a new one, run, don't walk!Linda Hylton http://earl-linda.blogspot.com
Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failure Reply #4 – February 17, 2013, 03:52:37 pm Yahoo Message Number: 136869Quote from: David Michael"Any suggestions appreciated. (We've never had any mechanical problems before with our 1998 Ford 450 so this is a new experience.)Many thanks...from Stranded in Blythe, David and NolaThe transmission on my 96 went out at about 98,000 miles. How many miles on your rig? If yours has the same Ford E4OD transmission as mine then it is most likely that. They are notorious for quitting around 100,000 miles, sometimes sooner if they get hot too often. It cost $2400 for a Ford rue manufactured unit with 3 year, 75,000 mile warranty. You could have the existing one rebuilt for probably less by a local transmission shop, maybe even beefed up some if you plan on keeping the rig. There is a speed sensor in the rear diff for the speedometer. Mine was jumping around so I had it replaced, Cost under $100 parts and labor.Good luck.Jay
Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failure Reply #5 – February 17, 2013, 04:05:58 pm Yahoo Message Number: 136870.....and everyone knows to avoid Acme like the plague, even if it's the only shop in town, I hope.
Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failure Reply #6 – February 17, 2013, 04:19:11 pm Yahoo Message Number: 136871Quote Any suggestions appreciated. (We've never had any mechanical problems before with our 1998 Ford 450 so this is a new experience.)Many thanks...from Stranded in Blythe, David and Nola Here is link to a repair shop in Blythe. I have no idea at all if they are good but you can call them and at least get help locally to avoid a tow of some distance. http://www.meadautomotive.com/Hope this helps.Jay
Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failure Reply #7 – February 17, 2013, 05:02:17 pm Yahoo Message Number: 136874Thanks Linda, Read your blog and your adventures with the truck. Ouch! Great blog and thanks for sharing! David__ From: Linda & Earl Hylton elh3946@...> To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 1:17 PM Subject: [LD] Re: Help! ... Speedometer FailureAnd neither would I. We had trouble with the transmission on our Dodge (the whole long, sad, story is on our blog if you're interested...with the final chapter yet to be written). We were stranded in Alturas, CA for 8 days while it was repaired and when we finally made it down to our winter place, we called up Larry Green Dodge/Ford/Jeep/Everything Else (i.e., the only game in town) to have the transmission oil changed again at the suggestion of the mechanic in Alturas. When they found out what we'd had done in Alturas, they're response was that what the mechanic did was wrong and to bring the truck into them and they'd re-do all the work. Yea, right! We may not be the smartest people on the planet, but we didn't just fall off the turnip truck! Anyway, we won't be taking our vehicles to Larry Green in Blythe anytime soon. If it's something simple like a magnetic pickup coil that "tpild" (?) mentioned, OK; but if they want to tear down your transmission and put in a new one, run, don't walk!Linda Hylton http://earl-linda.blogspot.com
Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failure Reply #8 – February 17, 2013, 05:05:07 pm Yahoo Message Number: 136876Hi Jay, The rig has 96,000 miles on it. Thanks for your input. Very helpful and sobering.David__ From: J jkam69@...> To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 1:52 PM Subject: [LD] Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failure
Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failure Reply #9 – February 17, 2013, 06:03:49 pm Yahoo Message Number: 136878Do some web searches of Ford Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) and the E40D automatic. One forum thread reported the transmission "going nuts" when the sensor failed. I'd sure stick a new one
Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failure Reply #10 – February 17, 2013, 06:23:45 pm Yahoo Message Number: 136879http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/1998/ford/econoline_super_duty/brake/abs_speed_sensor.htmlThis looks like the exact part I installed.
Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failure Reply #11 – February 17, 2013, 08:23:18 pm Yahoo Message Number: 136880Thanks so much for the advice and information. Very helpful. Can't wait to talk with the mechanic tomorrow. Regards, David__ From: tpild tpild@...> To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 4:23 PM Subject: [LD] Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failurehttp://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/1998/ford/econoline_super_duty/brake/abs_speed_sensor.htmlThis looks like the exact part I installed.
Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failure Reply #12 – February 17, 2013, 09:07:28 pm Yahoo Message Number: 136881I don't know where you are, but Southern Speedometer in St. Florida fixed my Tahoe for $175. He said the dealer would charge$800. ffor the same reppair. Any good repair shop should be able to handle it for a lot less than a new one, I hope this helps. Darryll SE 37
Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failure Reply #13 – February 18, 2013, 08:18:02 pm Yahoo Message Number: 136920This should not be a transmission problem at all. The speedometer failing is the wole key. Your VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor) feeds many things including the speedometer, the cruise control, and the computer that tells the transmission when to shift. It sounds as if you need a good independent diagnostic shop. a transmission shop will no doubt sell you a transmission job and the dealer may well do the same. Sadly there is more involved than just the VSS though it is a likely candidate. But the connector, wiring and some electronics in the dash can also cause the problem. I wish you good luck but you need some that is pretty good on the electronics end of things and sadly these are rather rare at dealers. The Mechanic not knowing the difference between a Van cut away and a motorhome chassis isn't a good sign. I would be looking for a flat bed..... I had a similar problem on a 1994 F150 and it was a cold solder joint on the speedometer module. I bought the truck from a Ford dealer after they had given up on it. They had done a transmission Job and who knows what all else on it as well as 10,000 miles after it was traded in. In my case the problem was intermittent but the dealer had never came close. However a lot of these transmissions do fail but yours shows classic signs of VSS or related circuits...Again let us know how it turns outGarry[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 1 Likes
Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failure Reply #14 – February 18, 2013, 08:33:00 pm Yahoo Message Number: 136922Many thanks for your sharing about speedometers. The Ford mechanic didn't fix the problem, so I am off to a RV Service (Mead Auto) here in Blyth to get a second opinion and diagnostics before driving into Phoenix for more help. David__ From: Garry Foster garry.foster1@...> To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:17 PM Subject: [LD] Re: Help! ... Speedometer FailureThis should not be a transmission problem at all. The speedometer failing is the wole key. Your VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor) feeds many things including the speedometer, the cruise control, and the computer that tells the transmission when to shift. It sounds as if you need a good independent diagnostic shop. a transmission shop will no doubt sell you a transmission job and the dealer may well do the same. Sadly there is more involved than just the VSS though it is a likely candidate. But the connector, wiring and some electronics in the dash can also cause the problem. I wish you good luck but you need some that is pretty good on the electronics end of things and sadly these are rather rare at dealers. The Mechanic not knowing the difference between a Van cut away and a motorhome chassis isn't a good sign. I would be looking for a flat bed..... I had a similar problem on a 1994 F150 and it was a cold solder joint on the speedometer module. I bought the truck from a Ford dealer after they had given up on it. They had done a transmission Job and who knows what all else on it as well as 10,000 miles after it was traded in. In my case the problem was intermittent but the dealer had never came close. However a lot of these transmissions do fail but yours shows classic signs of VSS or related circuits...Again let us know how it turns outGarry[Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failure Reply #15 – February 18, 2013, 08:50:01 pm Yahoo Message Number: 136923Your not likely to get it fixed there and be careful driving it that far with the transmission not shifting, with the VSS not working your transmission is being stressed. Are you capable of changing the VSS yourself. Usually a 10 minute job with one bolt. Or did Ford try that. Therre is nothing exotic about the Ford part of your vehicle it is basically the same as any Ford Van.... Garry
Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failure Reply #16 – February 19, 2013, 01:07:04 pm Yahoo Message Number: 136942I highly recommend the Sanderson Ford Truck Service Center here in Phoenix, if you make it that far. They are excellent, tho not cheap. But their work is beyond anyone else in this area. DO NOT go to either Premier Coachworks, or Orangewood RV.....the list of reasons is too long to put in here. If you want to know, e-mail me privately. I'm going on 8 mo. of round and round with Premier, and the Ins. Co. rep "on your side"...[ha!! NOT!]. Gini Free and Junah, canine xtrodinaire "CHERRYOTTE" our litte red home on wheels "Growing old is mandatory. Growing wise is optional."
Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failure Reply #17 – February 20, 2013, 03:57:21 pm Yahoo Message Number: 136973David: I have been away so didn't see your question until now. I had a 2002 LD with 92,000 miles when the speedometer died. Our Ford truck dealer said he would fix it and order a new instrument cluster. After a few weeks of excuses I went to my local RV dealer who, it turns out, has a friend working for Ford in Detroit. Seems that Ford is aware of this speedometer problem but is not willing to admit to it, or to fix it. They simply say "parts are on order". After three phone calls to Ford I ended up speaking to a Ford technical supervisor who admitted they were working on the problem and would be developing a "new" speedometer that would correct the problem. After some discussion I finally told him this has been a long term problem for me and was a serious safety concern and I was going to turn it over to my attorney to resolve. One day later my RV shop called me to say Ford had "found" a new instrument cluster for me and was shipping it. $800+ later the problem was fixed. The other possible problem area, like the speed sensor, were not the problem. The entire instrument cluster has to be replaced. Good luck. Gale
Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failure Update Reply #18 – February 20, 2013, 10:50:10 pm Yahoo Message Number: 136975Hi Gale, Many thanks for your email regarding the speedometer. Good to know that you finally had yours fixed. Now I know how perplexing the speedo can be. Mine was a bit of a challenge, but in the end we solved the problem by moving the LD from Larry Green Ford to Mead Auto and RV Service in Blythe. The owner-mechanic (Hamp) correctly diagnosed the problem within an hour, after the original Ford tech spent two days searching for the cause and trying various parts. I didn't have much confidence in the original diagnosis, thus the reason for the move. In all fairness, it was much more complicated than we all originally thought as the speed sensor and gear box wouldn't work because of a cracked emergency brake disk assembly inside of which is a sensor. The replacement parts were $2200. Got out of there for about $2800. We drove it to Casa Grande this afternoon and it purrs like a kitten. So I'm a happy camper with a big dent in our emergency funds. I checked with two other techs from Sanderson Ford in Phoenix and elsewhere before making the final decision to go ahead with the new parts and installation. Our only other alternative was to hire a tow from Blyth to Glendale (Sanderson Ford) for an additional $750 (180 miles). Fortunately, Mead Auto and RV were excellent and I totally recommend them. I'll summarize our findings from our experience tomorrow to tidy things up for this message board.Regards, David__ From: "" lawgnw@...> To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [LD] Re: Help! ... Speedometer FailureDavid: I have been away so didn't see your question until now. I had a 2002 LD with 92,000 miles when the speedometer died. Our Ford truck dealer said he would fix it and order a new instrument cluster. After a few weeks of excuses I went to my local RV dealer who, it turns out, has a friend working for Ford in Detroit. Seems that Ford is aware of this speedometer problem but is not willing to admit to it, or to fix it. They simply say "parts are on order". After three phone calls to Ford I ended up speaking to a Ford technical supervisor who admitted they were working on the problem and would be developing a "new" speedometer that would correct the problem. After some discussion I finally told him this has been a long term problem for me and was a serious safety concern and I was going to turn it over to my attorney to resolve. One day later my RV shop called me to say Ford had "found" a new instrument cluster for me and was shipping it. $800+ later the problem was fixed. The other possible problem area, like the speed sensor, were not the problem. The entire instrument cluster has to be replaced. Good luck. Gale
Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failure Update Reply #19 – February 21, 2013, 06:58:21 am Yahoo Message Number: 136976Quote Hi Gale, Many thanks for your email regarding the speedometer. Good to know that you finally had yours fixed. Now I know how perplexing the speedo can be. Mine was a bit of a challenge, but in the end we solved the problem by moving the LD from Larry Green Ford to Mead Auto and RV Service in Blythe. The owner-mechanic (Hamp) correctly diagnosed the problem within an hour, after the original Ford tech spent two days searching for the cause and trying various parts. I didn't have much confidence in the original diagnosis, thus the reason for the move. In all fairness, it was much more complicated than we all originally thought as the speed sensor and gear box wouldn't work because of a cracked emergency brake disk assembly inside of which is a sensor. The replacement parts were $2200. Got out of there for about $2800. We drove it to Casa Grande this afternoon and it purrs like a kitten. So I'm a happy camper with a big dent in our emergency funds. I checked with two other techs from Sanderson Ford in Phoenix and elsewhere before making the final decision to go ahead with the new parts and installation. Our only other alternative was to hire a tow from Blyth to Glendale (Sanderson Ford) for an additional $750 (180 miles). Fortunately, Mead Auto and RV were excellent and I totally recommend them. David. Glad you got it fixed. Never heard of the problem you had. It is as expensive as a transmission. Keep an eye out for your transmission, it is getting close to needing work. If you have a Scan Guage I suggest using the function that shows trans. temp to keep an eye on that. Mine still runs hot after replacement and now I service it more often. Good my recommendation for Mead went well as I never dealt with them.Regards.Jay
Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failure Update Reply #20 – February 21, 2013, 10:33:26 am Yahoo Message Number: 136977David: Your problems were certainly more serious than mine. Congrats on getting it fixed and behind you. We are on our fourth Lazy Daze and all have been great. Small problems along the way are worth the inconvenience. Do you have a favorite RV park in Casa Grande? We usually stop at Voyager in Tucson, but I like the Casa Grande area. Thanks, Gale
Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failure Update Reply #21 – February 21, 2013, 10:46:09 am Yahoo Message Number: 136979Gale... We tend to have short stops here in Casa Grande and use the dry camp area of SKP Park ...Rover's Roost ($5 per night). We do have membership in formerly Western Horizon Parks, Desert Shadows in Casa Grande. It has been sold recently and the new owner has upgraded facilities. Now I do recommend it. But there are lots of RV Parks here. These days we favor Boondocking whenever possible as we have a great membership park in Indio (Indan Waters) when we want a little luxury.David__ From: "" lawgnw@...> To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 8:33 AM Subject: Re: [LD] Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failure UpdateDavid: Your problems were certainly more serious than mine. Congrats on getting it fixed and behind you. We are on our fourth Lazy Daze and all have been great. Small problems along the way are worth the inconvenience. Do you have a favorite RV park in Casa Grande? We usually stop at Voyager in Tucson, but I like the Casa Grande area. Thanks, Gale
Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failure Update Reply #22 – February 21, 2013, 11:41:34 am Yahoo Message Number: 136980QuoteIn all fairness, it was much more complicated than we all originally thought as the speed sensor and gear box wouldn't work because of a cracked emergency brake disk assembly inside of which is a sensor. The replacement parts were $2200. Got out of there for about $2800. Larry Wade has frequently mentioned the need to check the oil level inside the parking brake unit, and that Ford service facilities often are unaware of this. This may be the reason the unit failed.Steve
Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failure Update Reply #23 – February 21, 2013, 12:51:00 pm Yahoo Message Number: 136983"Larry Wade has frequently mentioned the need to check the oil level inside the parking brake unit, and that Ford service facilities often are unaware of this. This may be the reason the unit failed."Steve The David's 1998 LD, with the E40D transmission has a rear axle paring brake, which uses a drum brake cast inside the rear rotors. In 1999 Ford switched to the new 4R100 transmission which has a drive-shaft parking-brake, mounted on the rear of the transmission. Sometime around 2008, Ford switched back to the conventional rear axle parking brake, I'm still trying to sort out the dates on the switchover. IMO, the rear axle parking brake is much better and cheaper system, for many reasons. I do recommend checking the transmission mounted parking brake's oil reservoir's level annually or when changing the engine oil. If the the unit runs dry, it's a $2000+ replacement plus it is a rare part, used for only a few years in the E450 and no other Ford truck or van. It is a sealed unit and not repairable. If it does fail, it will leave the MH not drivable until replaced. Most Ford mechanics do not know about the transmission mounted parking brake so I have photos showing where it is and how to check it. http://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157627503762313/> I strongly suggest that LD owners print the photos and take them to Ford or their mechanics to 'prove' that it exist. I have heard of many cases where the mechanic, even Ford's, will deny it's existence....right Joan?Larry
Re: Help! ... Speedometer Failure Update Reply #24 – February 21, 2013, 01:05:49 pm Yahoo Message Number: 136984This is one of the few advantages my 01 E-350 based LD has. It uses the 4R100 trans but has the old cable operated drum e-brake. That and slightly better gas mileage are the only advantages I can see of the old e-350 chassis.Bob Quartzsite, AZ. for a few...
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