Ford 450 engine quits February 28, 2012, 06:25:28 am Yahoo Message Number: 128842Greetings fellow LDers. Long time, no posting! But I'm having a very troublesome problem that some of you might have experienced, and might have some insight into the diagnosis and fix. The LD, well, the Ford Engine, has a couple of issues that so far, no mechanic has diagnosed or fixed. The two problems have been going on for a couple of months - and is so 'off and on,' that mechanics can't reproduce it, and it seems that there is no fault code on the diagnostic chip. (What's its proper name?)This is a 2003 RB Ford 450 engine, with Banks Power Pack. First issue. In about one out of 20 starts, it won't. The ignition does it's thing, and it's definitely not the battery. The engine simply doesn't kick in. It eventually will, but what a nuisance. And, it's not the fuel pump. That's been confirmed.The next problem's not so benign. In fact, it could be fatal. Out of the blue, with no warning, the engine simple QUITS. Usually at highway speeds, but has occurred at in-town speeds. Sea level to 5,000', various terrain - - uphill, downhill, flat, engine warm, transmission temp withing normal range - - nothing seems to make a difference. When the engine quits, the power steering and brakes go out, of course. The first time was in the evening 6-8 weeks ago, driving home on a narrow, winding, 2-lane highway in Southern California, at dusk. Sheesh. Thank God there was a wide spot to pull off, but with no brakes + really tough steering; well, it was pretty harry. Our local mechanic couldn't find out what it was, therefore couldn't fix it. Ditto for the Ford repair shop in Temecula. Ditto for a Mexican mechanics at Rocky Point Mexico a couple of weeks ago. . Well, happened THREE TIMES yesterday going up and down some really steep, narrow mountains on Hwy 1 in Baja, Mexico!!! Again, God was making all the plans so I could pull over, but those of you who have traveled this very narrow highway (with no extra space off the lane and very rare areas where one can pull off) the odds that it could happen on a curve with NO pull-over is huge. The "Check Engine" light has never come on until it came on briefly (about an hour) yesterday. I couldn't pull off for about 20 minutes, and all other gauges were normal. When I was finally able to pull off, all the fluids were normal, and nothing was obvious under the hood. This trouble light coming on did NOT coincide with the engine quiting. The manual says that the magic chip fringus detected some trouble code, so maybe the next mechanic can diagnose and fix it. I prayed, and I'm not kidding you, for 2 hours coming down the last mountain north of Loreto, MX. VERY narrow, winding, mostly no guard rails, deep canyons - - well, I think you get the picture. I generally use one of the top tier gasolines and have done this always, so I'll eliminate gasoline as a cause. I'm going to look for a mechanic in La Paz, but I'm hoping someone here has had the problem and knows the fix. The other thing I hope is that it never happens to any of you.Happy trails, Sarah, Pete, Gizmo and Abby Loreto, MX 2003 B/W RB
Re: Ford 450 engine quits Reply #1 – February 28, 2012, 07:13:17 am Yahoo Message Number: 128843QuoteOut of the blue, with no warning, the engine simple QUITS. Usually at highway speeds, but has occurred at in-town speeds. Sea level to 5,000', various terrain - - uphill, downhill, flat, engine warm, transmission temp withing normal range - - nothing seems to make a difference. When the engine quits, the power steering and brakes go out, of course. The first time was in the evening 6-8 weeks ago, driving home on a narrow, . Sarah, this sounds like an issue that might be the same as experienced by Bob Filler with his '02. Check Terry Tanner's site 'Technoz' in 'files' as 'Article65.pdf'.Steve
Re: Ford 450 engine quits Reply #2 – February 28, 2012, 07:50:50 am Yahoo Message Number: 128844Out of the blue, with no warning, the engine simple QUITS.
Re: Ford 450 engine quits Reply #3 – February 28, 2012, 09:47:57 am Yahoo Message Number: 128847I had a similar problem. It was electrical. Specifically a loose wire from the fuse box. The wire that went to the fuel pump. It was difficult to determine that that was the problem, and not easy to repair, but no problems once the repair was completed.On [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Ford 450 engine quits Reply #4 – February 28, 2012, 09:54:57 am Yahoo Message Number: 128848Are you sure this isn't your fuel filter? That's what it sounds like.Ellen
Re: Ford 450 engine quits Reply #5 – February 28, 2012, 10:30:23 am Yahoo Message Number: 128850Quote Greetings fellow LDers. Long time, no posting! But I'm having a very troublesome problem that some of you might have experienced, and might have some insight into the diagnosis and fix. The LD, well, the Ford Engine, has a couple of issues that so far, no mechanic has diagnosed or fixed. The two problems have been going on for a couple of months - and is so 'off and on,' that mechanics can't reproduce it, and it seems that there is no fault code on the diagnostic chip. (What's its proper name?)This is a 2003 RB Ford 450 engine, with Banks Power Pack. First issue. In about one out of 20 starts, it won't. The ignition does it's thing, and it's definitely not the battery. The engine simply doesn't kick in. It eventually will, but what a nuisance. And, it's not the fuel pump. That's been confirmed.The next problem's not so benign. In fact, it could be fatal. Out of the blue, with no warning, the engine simple QUITS. Usually at highway speeds, but has occurred at in-town speeds. Hi Sarah! Long time since we heard from you! Sorry to learn you are having problems. First off, knowing that you have a 2003 LD, I'm pretty sure you have an E450 Ford chassis and the engine is the 6.8 V-10, not a Ford 450. IF you end up making calls to repair shops or do internet searches, you need to give them correct descriptions. Also, when you state that the "ignition does it's thing", I *think* you are saying that starter cranks but the ignition is not doing its thing (meaning firing up the engine); am I correct about this? I also have a 2003 LD, same engine and had a similar sporadic starting issue last summer. Here is my description of our problem. Engine would start just fine when the engine was cold; but restarts would find the starter cranking but the engine would not fire up right away. It would crank over 10 seconds before starting. Knowing others have had fuel pump problems, that was suspect number 1. A Ford dealer near Bozeman, Mt. also thought it sounded like our fuel pump but could not even look at it for days and days. Had a repair shop in Jackson, Wy. check it out. Fuel pump tested OK but there were a few times the pressure was low. They thought we could make it back to Ohio and have it repaired here. I had it at my servicing Ford dealer and they could not find a problem; their suspicion was that I had a bad load of fuel when the problem occured. Never had the problem again. A mechanic friend who doesn't have a shop big enough to handle our rig, suspects something else. His thought is that the fuel pressure regulator is failing. In his opinon, it is the first thing he would change; it is reasonably inexpensive(under $50) unlike a new fuel pump! and probably not difficult to replace. I should add that his fuel pressure regulator thought has made me wonder about those from the LD group who had their fuel pump replaced and had the problem happen again and again. I've wondered if the shops that did multiple fuel pump replacements ended up replacing the regulator to cover their butts. Hey, it's cynical Steve K. What did I do? Nothing. Since our problem in Wyoming, we've put on another 5000 miles without incident. But I did sign up for CoachNet.When you find out the problem, *please share what you learn. One of my pet peaves with this group is how folks ask for help and very seldom ever report back with the solutions. sigh.Steve K. (weren't our 2002-2004 LD classes the most involved?)
Re: Ford 450 engine quits Reply #6 – February 28, 2012, 11:14:43 am Yahoo Message Number: 128852Quote Out of the blue, with no warning, the engine simple QUITS. Usually at highway speeds, but has occurred at in-town speeds. Sea level to 5,000', various terrain - - uphill, downhill, flat, engine warm, transmission temp withing normal range - - nothing seems to make a difference. When the engine quits, the power steering and brakes go out, of course. The first time was in the evening 6-8 weeks ago, driving home on a narrow, .Sarah, this sounds like an issue that might be the same as experienced by Bob Filler with his '02. Check Terry Tanner's site 'Technoz' in 'files' as 'Article65.pdf'.Steve I looked up Steve's comment and it appears to be a dead ringer for your problem. It involves the Banks chip. here is a link to the site that steve menitioned. I replaced the period with (dot) at the beginning after yahoofs and at the end before pdf so the address would not get shortened. http://f1.grp.yahoofs (dot) com/v1/EAhNT20uBaD4u8EcgT-IIty9OukEhlHSgnxHbJStRO20YEV8n7m2qNcrRDxCJ9m7niLJfhrarQ1kIKeGnnJw6f5-briucO749z8/Article65 (dot) pdfI also looked up the Banks tech support info on their website (again replacing the period with (dot). Monday - Friday 7am - 5pm (PST) (888) 839-5600 customerservice@bankspower (dot)com You have likely done all this already but thought I would add just in case you could not easily do the search. Good luck, John
Re: Ford 450 engine quits Reply #7 – February 28, 2012, 12:23:12 pm Yahoo Message Number: 128854Only email addresses get truncated unless spelled out. There's no need to do this with URLs.Linda Hylton http://earl-linda.blogspot.com
Re: Ford 450 engine quits Reply #8 – February 28, 2012, 02:01:59 pm Yahoo Message Number: 128855Hey Sarah -- so sorry you are having such scary problems in such a beautiful part of Baja. I just spent mucho dinero tracking and repairing (well, Larry Wade did the repairing) rodent damage in my engine compartment. We found one nest after removing the air cleaner. The second nest was discovered only after removing the dog house. Those nasty critters chew up wires, hoses, insulation, you name it. I only suggest investigating this possibility if all other systems continue to check out OK, because I'm assuming your rig is still unoccupied (stored outside) part of the year at Jojoba. I know that Baja road...it's white knuckle *without* engine problems! Good luck getting the rest of the way home *safely.*Lorna http://uppity-woman.blogspot.com/
Re: Ford 450 engine quits Reply #9 – February 28, 2012, 09:55:12 pm Yahoo Message Number: 128865Lorna, Did you turn this into your insurance company? When this happened to me my insurance did pay $900 for the damages that were done by those pesky little critters.Betty Jean
Re: Ford 450 engine quits Reply #10 – February 29, 2012, 01:31:46 am Yahoo Message Number: 128867"It involves the Banks chip"Sarah, Before I cold even finish reading the word "Banks" in your original post, I immediately thought that you need to disconnect/remove the "Banks" electronics and see if your problem goes away.Ramon
Re: Ford 450 engine quits Reply #11 – February 29, 2012, 09:30:10 am Yahoo Message Number: 128870Sarah,Here is the Techsnoz text describing Bob Filler's Banks problem:Banks Chip Bob Filler, Rig #2783, has a 2002 E-450 and has the after market Banks Power Pack that includes the headers, exhaust system, OttoMind chip, and TransCommand. His rig would experience intermittent engine shut down while driving, intermittent inability to manually disengage the overdrive, and other intermittent shifting difficulties. The engine was able to be restarted after shut down by turning the ignition key to "Start" without changing the gear position out of "Drive" and while still rolling. No diagnostic "Trouble Codes" appeared. Bob endured a protracted diagnostic experience that pointed to the Banks Chip. The Banks Chip was "re- flashed" and the problem did not reappear – for a while. The Banks chip, for Bob's 2002 and my 2001, plugs into a PCM socket on the Ford computer wiring. I do not know the exact year of the changeover, but Banks changed from a separate chip to reprogramming the Ford chip using an SCT X3 Power Flash Ford Programmer device that plugs into the OBD-II port. This is described in: http://www.sctflash.com/products.php?PID=1&VID Bob's last diagnostic stop was at the Dyno Shop where the problem appeared to be the contact
Re: Ford 450 engine quits Reply #12 – February 29, 2012, 09:42:35 am Yahoo Message Number: 128871Sarah, Since you have a 2003, while you are trouble shooting I would remove the coolant tank and check the wiring bundles behind it. Terry T has an article about this. Interference had worn thru the insulation on a number of wires there on my rig. Much more & there would have been shorts. I don't know what those wires do but can't hurt to check. Only takes a few minutes.Terry2003 26.5'RB Gardnerville, NV
Re: Ford 450 engine quits Reply #13 – February 29, 2012, 11:01:44 am Yahoo Message Number: 128876Quote The "Check Engine" light has never come on until it came on briefly(about an hour) yesterday....This trouble light coming on did NOT coincide with the engine quiting. Hi Sarah, I have a 2005 MB and last summer I went through some similar problems. I was forced to learn how the on-board diagnostics work. The "check engine light" doesn't necessarily come on the first time that a problem is detected. The diagnostics and check engine light work on the basis of "drive cycles." A "drive cycle" consists of starting the engine, having it run for some length of time (can't remember the specifics), and shutting the engine off. Turning on the check engine light takes at least two drive cycles. If the diagnostics detect a problem during one drive cycle, the computer remembers it but does not turn on the check engine light. During the following drive cycle if the diagnostics detect the same problem, the check engine light is turned on. If the same problem is not detected during the second drive cycle, the computer deletes the previously detected problem from memory and the check engine light is not turned on. Once the check engine light is turned on, however, it will remain on until an external source (like a ScanGage) tells it to turn off. The ScanGage will readout the "P-code" once the check engine light has activated, however, I don't think that it can see the "temporarily stored" problems. Unfortunately the way the diagnostics work means that you can have a problem every other drive cycle and the check engine light will probably not come on. This is the situation I faced with a fuel pressure / fuel pump problem. Eventually my problem got bad enough that the check engine light came on every time I drove the rig. The above is how things work for a 2005 Ford E-450. For your 2003 rig, things might be different as the "computer" in the two vehicles is completely different. However, I expect that the diagnostics are the same or very similar as the operation of the "electronic engine control" is pretty much dictated by Federal (i.e. CA) standards. Ford does publish a "Description of OBDC Operation" (Onboard Diagnostics) on a yearly basis. You can usually find it on the web using Google.Doug
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