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Topic: Newer LD's with sealed maintenance-free AGM's: worth the price? (Read 6 times) previous topic - next topic
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Newer LD's with sealed maintenance-free AGM's: worth the price?
Yahoo Message Number: 127412
I've read that maintenance free is not totally true i.e., they still need water occasionally).  Still, my lack of proper maintenace has recently murdered one of my coach batteries.    Looks like the cost for Lifeline brand (what LD is using now) is pricey.
 Any thoughts on cost and benefits other than lack of maintenance?    If they're harder to kill, that would be worth something.
Re: Newer LD's with sealed maintenance-free AGM's: worth the price
Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 127414
"Leland"  wrote: I've read that maintenance free is not totally true i.e., they still need water occasionally).
--- Are you referring to AGM batteries?  If so, AGMs are *sealed*; one can't "add water". Owner "maintenance" on AGMs is limited to making sure that the witing is sound and that the batteries/terminals/connections are kept clean, uncorroded, and tight.  Many people also have a battery monitor, e.g., a LinkLITE or similar, installed to monitor function and usage. The links (under "RV Battery) on this page provide good information on all things AGM:
 http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/rv.php

As ever, YMMV.

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Newer LD's with sealed maintenance-free AGM's: worth the price
Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 127416
Quote
Are you referring to AGM batteries?  If so, AGMs are *sealed*; one can't "add water". Owner "maintenance" on AGMs is limited to making sure that the witing is sound and that the batteries/terminals/connections are kept clean, uncorroded, and tight.  Many people also
This is true, except that with proper care to charging and discharging conditions, the battery connections and environment will never experience any sort of corrosion, filming, etc., that requires maintenance. Our AGMs look as pristine after 2 yrs as they did new, with no attention paid at all.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: Newer LD's with sealed maintenance-free AGM's: worth the price
Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 127418
I should rephrase my question:    are AGM's worth the money?
 Steve:  did you justify the cost with wanting the ''best,'' or do the benefits far outweigh the standard wet batteries?    There is a huge price difference!

Anyone else here bought AGM's?
Re: Newer LD's with sealed maintenance-free AGM's: worth the price
Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 127419
A number of us have AGMs--including, of course, owners of 2010 and later Lazy Dazes, which have them factory-installed. As you noted, they're much more expensive than flooded-cell batteries such as Trojan T105s on a dollars-per-amp-hour basis. Their advantages are:

1. Zero maintenance
2. Can accept charge at a faster rate
3. Can be installed in an unvented (e.g., interior) compartment
4. Can be installed in any orientation
5. Nearly immune to freezing, even when fully discharged

Whether those advantages justify the higher cost is a matter of individual preference. In my case, their no-vents-needed characteristic enabled me to install three additional group 27 AGM batteries under the refrigerator of my midbath, for a total of five house batteries (525 amp-hours).
 On the other hand, if you're going to stick with two batteries, flooded-cell Trojans are highly cost-effective, and a Pro-Fill add-on makes it easy to keep them properly watered.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Newer LD's with sealed maintenance-free AGM's: worth the price
Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 127420
Quote
"...are AGM's worth the money?...or do the benefits far outweigh the standard wet batteries?    There is a huge price difference!
Leland

Let me take a whack at this! There comes a time when all batteries need to be replaced. It was at that point when I came to the decision to replace mine with AGMs. Realizing that I was going to have to lay out X# of dollars for new Trojans I weighed the difference in cost against the benefits. The AGMs won, hands down.
 After nursing the wet cells along for six years, first with the turkey baster, flashlight and mirror and later with the Pro Fill I realized I had enough clothing with battery acid holes to keep Good Will supplied for some time to come. So I laid down the extra bucks and haven't regretted it since. No more messy fumbling procedure, no more ruined clothing. Just wipe the dust off once in a great while and smile away down the road.

Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Jiggs
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!
Re: Newer LD's with sealed maintenance-free AGM's: worth the price
Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 127422
Quote
I should rephrase my question:    are AGM's worth the money?
 Steve:  did you justify the cost with wanting the ''best,'' or do the benefits far outweigh the standard wet batteries?    There is a huge price difference!
In our case, a definitive YES! However, I relocated our batteries inside the coach, in a location un-vented to the outside. Flooded-cell batteries would be unsafe in such a location, leaving AGMs the only choice, regardless of other pros/cons.
 In the standard exterior location, the only significant benefit for most would be no maintenance, and freedom from corrosive influences in the environment. This environment would include other devices you might want in the vicinity, such as high-power inverters, current shunts, protection fuses, etc, as well as the battery mounting components.
 If however, you keep the compartment cleaned and the batteries religiously maintained, there would be little reason to change.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: Newer LD's with sealed maintenance-free AGM's: worth the price
Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 127423
Leland: Still another reason to consider AGM 's.  I also carefully filled  wet batteries  using a mirror and flashlight, and headed out for a short trip. Some degree of bumpy roads later, noticed a leak from the battery compartment. It  was obvious that I had overfilled the batteries. After ordering 2 colors of red from LD, and expense and hassle of  a trip to the paint shop, my mistake was about $500.  Wayne

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Newer LD's with sealed maintenance-free AGM's: worth the price
Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 127424
"I also carefully filled  wet batteries  using a mirror and flashlight, and headed out for a short trip. Some degree of bumpy roads later, noticed a leak from the battery compartment. It was obvious that I had overfilled the batteries."

A Pro-Fil system would have prevented that problem.
Checking and adding water to the batteries take five minutes and is done three times a year.
If eliminating this task is worth spending two or three times more on batteries, go for it. Me, I rather put the extra cash in the tank and go somewhere.
90% of LDs will gain no advantage from AGMs except for not needing to spend 15 minutes a year watering the batteries.
The lifespan for wet and AGMs is similar so there is no gain here either.
Unless the batteries are located inside the coach (and unvented) or your LD has a 100+amp charger, you are not utilizing the AGM's major advantages or getting your full money's worth.

Larry
2001 MB
* Not to be confused with Larry W (3000 of my posts are actually from expert Larry W due to Yahoo transition mis-step)
Re: Newer LD's with sealed maintenance-free AGM's: worth the price?
Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 127426
In our case, a definitive YES! However, I relocated our batteries inside
 
Quote
the coach, in a location un-vented to the outside. Flooded-cell batteries would be unsafe in such a location, leaving AGMs the only choice, regardless of other pros/cons.
Steve the following is a pretty good justification in and of itself.  How many trios have been ruined by corroded connections. In fact the less you know or are mechanically inclined the better deal AGMs might really be.  In other words they are almost an install and forget solution where as regular flooded cell require more or less constant attention. If someone is paying for this cleaning and level checking as well as corrosion control the payback could be pretty quick. And if they are ignoring these issues payback would be even quicker. Having never had them myself I had already to install them when new battery was need on my recently wrecked Small Class A.

Garry
 In the standard exterior location, the only significant benefit for most
 
Quote
would be no maintenance, and freedom from corrosive influences in the environment. This environment would include other devices you might want in the vicinity, such as high-power inverters, current shunts, protection fuses, etc, as well as the battery mounting components.
 If however, you keep the compartment cleaned and the batteries religiously maintained, there would be little reason to change.

Steve
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Newer LD's with sealed maintenance-free AGM's: worth the price?
Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 127428
Quote
Steve the following is a pretty good justification in and of itself.  How many trios have been ruined by corroded connections. In fact the less you know or are mechanically inclined the better deal AGMs might really be.  In other words they are almost an install and forget solution where as regular flooded cell require more or less constant attention. If someone is paying for this cleaning and level checking as well as corrosion control the payback could be pretty quick. And if they are ignoring these issues payback would be even quicker. Having never had them myself I had
However, maintenance-free and protecting your investment DOES require a more sophisticated charging system than is standard in the typical RV. In particular, although all batteries will live longer when kept at full charge as much of the time as possible, that becomes more significant when the initial cost is so high. With AGMs, distress venting WILL occur from an internal safety valve if the batteries are significantly overcharged. Even if they are in a vented locale, the lost capacity can never be restored, as it can by adding electrolyte back to flooded-cell batteries.
 Bottom line, opting for AGMs should be accompanied by an analysis of the various charging systems, and also upgrading those as needed. This is then an additional expense. In our case, I upgraded the converter to a multi-stage unit, and also the solar charge controller.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: Newer LD's with sealed maintenance-free AGM's: worth the price?
Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 127439
"Even if they are in a vented locale, the lost capacity can never be restored, as it can by adding electrolyte back to flooded-cell batteries." Steve
 Years ago, my batteries boiled over because of having the old Magnatek Charger on constantly while camping Over a several month period.
 I checked with several auto parts stores and two battery stores and no one would suggest adding electrolyte to the batteries even thought the parts stores actually sold the electrolyte solution.
 When your batteries boil over losing electrolyte as was the case with mine, it makes sense to replace the lost electrolyte but exactly how does one determine how much electrolyte to add back into each battery?

Ed 94' 26.5' MidBath Red Lazy Daze named "TranQuility"
Re: Newer LD's with sealed maintenance-free AGM's: worth the price?
Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 127441
Quote
I checked with several auto parts stores and two battery stores and no one would suggest adding electrolyte to the batteries even thought the parts stores actually sold the electrolyte solution.
 When your batteries boil over losing electrolyte as was the case with mine, it makes sense to replace the lost electrolyte but exactly how does one determine how much electrolyte to add back into each battery?
If the batteries actually 'boiled over', e.g. significant fluid came out in liquid form, then the batteries should be replaced. If internal boiling or bubbling caused a loss of fluid in vapor form, which usually condenses to a liquid on top or in the surrounding area, then all you should add is distilled water. Depending on the extent of the electrolyte loss event, the batteries may have lost some capacity, but most of the lost liquid will have been H2O. You should never add electrolyte solution (acid) back. This solution is for new dry-stored batteries, and they are not commonly sold that way anymore.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit