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Anyone changed out the fan clutch or alternator for '85 (or thereabo
Yahoo Message Number: 126893
So.. On our first real adventure with our new-to-us LD, we managed to drive it up to Oregon (from So-Cal) with a few minor issues -- the fan clutch is dying and the alternator is shot -- we had to jury rig an AC charger powered by the generator to charge the battery since the alternator was not.. Worked and got us 1300 miles (since we were travelling on Thanksgiving most places were closed)... Anyway, I'm not sure how to go about replacing either item on this vehicle as they're somewhat 'busy' under the hood.. I started taking out the fan shroud but am thinking the procedure is to perhaps take out the radiator and possibly even the water pump to replace the clutch?  Not sure and I forgot to bring my GM manual -- ugg!
 I'll be also checking with a few local shops that the local NAPA store suggested as being reputable shops -- I might opt to have them do it instead of dumping a radiator contents in my mothers driveway..
 Anyone do either of these jobs?  I've done them before on the Chevy trucks but not the vans..

-- Rick

Re: Anyone changed out the fan clutch or alternator for '85 (or ther
Reply #1
Yahoo Message Number: 126894
Quote
Anyone do either of these jobs?  I've done them before on the Chevy trucks but not the vans..
I have done them many times on our '83.
 The fan clutch is a sore spot - one time had to replace it twice in one trip. I can now do it in about 1/2 hr en-route. They just don't make them sturdy enough for the application. A P.O. had cut away the bottom part of the fan shroud, which is needed. I fabricated a replacement I attach with screws since I wanted the air ducting pattern retained. Anyway, with the bottom part of the shroud removed, you can reach up from underneath and remove the four nuts holding the clutch to the water pump. Carefully lower the assembly out, and unbolt the fan. Immediately attach it to the waiting NEW fan clutch so you don't confuse its orientation. Then lift the assembly back and bolt into place.
 The alternator is a different story. The belt routing to it in this engine is poor, and any under-tension in the belt will cause it to slip, glazing the belt contact surface and heating up the pulley quickly. This destroys the alternator lube over time, causing premature bearing failure. Buy a high-quality replacement new or rebuilt, replace the belt, and buy a belt-tension gauge. Believe me, you cannot tell without it the difference between 30 lbs tension and 50 lbs, and the belt will slip with less then 50 lbs once a load is put on the alternator. Look for a Krikit gauge by Gates. I replaced many alternators before that purchase.
 Replacing the alternator is straightforward, but not fun, and other belts need to be removed before replacing the alternator belt. Have an appropriate pry-bar on hand for the tensioning, and do this again after a short drive, and again at least yearly. My last alternator replacement is still working fine after 10 years.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit

Re: Anyone changed out the fan clutch or alternator for '85 (or ther
Reply #2
Yahoo Message Number: 126895
Quote

 "I started taking out the fan shroud but am thinking the procedure is to perhaps take out the radiator and possibly even the water pump to replace the clutch?"

-- Rick
Rick,
 If you have to go to that extreme perhaps a new water pump would be in order at the same time, unless of course it's been done recently. I'd be looking hard at any component with a limited service life, i.e. timing chain/belt, etc. Cheap insurance there!

Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Jiggs
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!

Re: Anyone changed out the fan clutch or alternator for '85 (or ther
Reply #3
Yahoo Message Number: 126898
Thanks for the comments everyone!  I spoke w/ Ramon this evening as well and his information jived with what I've read here...  I'm very much leaning towards having someone else do this and just giving them a laundry list of items to replace -- including the water pump and thermostat.  I believe the radiator has been recently replaced as it's not EOM and looks nearly new..  I'm only up here for a short period and would prefer not to spend all of my time working on the LD.. Anyway, we'll see what happens tomorrow..

-- Rick

Re: Anyone changed out the fan clutch or alternator for '85...
Reply #4
Yahoo Message Number: 126903
"I'm very much leaning towards having someone else do this"
 One caution, based on my own experiences with my old '85: don't trust them to get the belt tensions right! Get that Krikit belt tension gauge Steve mentioned and check all the belts yourself after you get the rig back from the shop.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"

Re: Anyone changed out the fan clutch or alternator for '85...
Reply #5
Yahoo Message Number: 126912
Just a quick followup.. After calling and visiting a few shops here in the town my mother lives in (Newport), none of them were able to work on the LD today -- the earliest would be Monday or perhaps Tuesday due to limited staff, etc.. I called another couple of places a bit north of town and found a shop that was more than happy to do the work and knew what was involved.
 So, we drove the LD over there and got it checked in at about 10:30AM and it was driven into the garage at about 11:15.. The work was done just over 2 hours later to the tune of $245..  They thought the water pump looked good so we left it alone.  Anyway, all is good now -- no more revving fan blades when they shouldn't and the battery is very happy and charging regardless of fan or headlight use.  We'll be heading back home tomorrow and should be much warmer on the way home since I will be able to keep the drivers vent window closed and allow the dash heater to be used since it's rather cold up here (in the 40-50 range).. Thanks for the help and suggestions!!

-- Rick

Re: Anyone changed out the fan clutch or alternator for '85...
Reply #6
Yahoo Message Number: 126917
Quote
"...I called another couple of places... and found a shop that was more than happy to do the work and knew what was involved."
).. Thanks for the help and suggestions!!

Quote
-- Rick
And hey, I'll bet you didn't even break a finger nail doing the job, did you?  ;-))

Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Jiggs
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!

Re: Anyone changed out the fan clutch or alternator for '85...
Reply #7
Yahoo Message Number: 126952
Quote
On 27.11.2011 09:01, lejest2003 wrote: "  And hey, I'll bet you didn't even break a finger nail doing the job, did you? ;-))"
 Yup.. No effort on my behalf.. However, the issue was not completely resolved either.. When I picked up the vehicle I should have kept an eye on things closer but when it fired up in the parking lot the volt meter was low again -- for about 20-30 seconds and then the alternator kicked in and looked fine for the ride home.  Go figure.  I drove it a little that day and all was good.. The next day however (Sunday) we went to leave for home (~1300 miles) and the alternator was not working at all -- back to the 12.3 volts and dropping depending on how many lights/fans were running on the van half of the RV.  I checked under the hood again and nothing looked out of place -- wiring was fine, etc.. Visited the local NAPA store (very helpful guys there!) and they checked the battery with their special tester which indicated no issue there.  They then ran a diagnostic on the alternator and said something funny was going on -- the bars were showing nothing when they ought to show something but he was unsure what the issue might be.
 So, we bought a beefier AC battery charger (55A model) and ran it off the genset for several hours as we drove south on Hwy 101 from Newport -- after a few hours of driving with somewhat dim headlights (it was pouring rain!!), I was increasing the speed from 45MPH to 55MPH and the alternator decided it was time to get to work and popped the voltage up to 14.1 and then shortly thereafter down to about 13.6 and remained that way for the remainder of the trip home allowing me to shut off the genset (which ran for >16 hours on the entire trip -- all of it while driving).

Any ideas on what might cause the alternator to behave this way? Perhaps a loose wire?  The alternator on this particular rig has the main 12V line and if I recall two other wires going to it -- I don't recall what those are for.
Perhaps one of those is loose..
 P.S. You were right about the belt tension.. When I kick in the AC (or defroster), I get a short squeal for about 5-10 seconds -- I'll need to adjust that before the next outing.
 Overall, it was a good trip albeit short-- I do have to fix a leak in the bunk area as we did have some water in there prior to leaving (from some rain at home) but I tried to seal things up prior to leaving and it must have paid off because there was no additional water puddling up there after driving through pouring rain for several hours along the Oregon Coast.

P.S.  I might have seen an LD heading north on Hwy 101 south of Reedsport on Sunday afternoon -- but am not completely sure as I only got a quick glimpse as it was driving quickly in the opposite direction..

Re: Anyone changed out the fan clutch or alternator for '85...
Reply #8
Yahoo Message Number: 126953
Sounds like your battery isolator is failing.
Electronic looking component on the far left side of the firewall under the hood as you look at it.
My original died recently, I googled the part number that is on the piece and got an exact replacement for about $20.

Better luck on your next trip.
GP

__

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Re: Anyone changed out the fan clutch or alternator for '85...
Reply #9
Yahoo Message Number: 126958
Quote
On 29.11.2011 11:27, George Peters wrote: " Sounds like your battery isolator is failing.
Electronic looking component on the far left side of the firewall under the hood as you look at it.
My original died recently, I googled the part number that is on the piece and got an exact replacement for about $20."

That was something that Ramon had suggested privately to me as well and I mentioned it to the guy at the Napa store but he had no idea on how to diagnose one of those..

By the way, I *think* mine is near the battery and is blue in color with large heat-sink fins on it -- perhaps about 4-6" long by perhaps 3" give or take?  Is this the one (on the drivers side) or is that something else?  On the left side (passenger side) is only the radiator overflow and a few other odds-n-ends but ours is a late '85 and perhaps things were relocated..

Hmm.. In looking at the specs for the Sure Power Industries isolators, I may need to jump to the 120A model over the smaller 70A model that I suspect may be in place now -- since I've just upgraded the alternator to the 78A model (ours is the 12Si model from what I gather)..  I'll look into this further.. I suppose that IF I see this happen again in the future I could bypass the isolator temporarily to see if the problem disappears.. Luckily so far when it's not working, it generally stays that way for a while..

Re: Anyone changed out the fan clutch or alternator for '85...
Reply #10
Yahoo Message Number: 126959
Quote
Any ideas on what might cause the alternator to behave this way? Perhaps a loose wire?  The alternator on this particular rig has the main 12V line and if I recall two other wires going to it -- I don't recall what those are for.
Perhaps one of those is loose..
These are exactly the symptom of a loose belt. VERY loose! If depressing it causes any noticeable deflection, it is certainly too loose. Try turning the alternator with your hands grasping the blades of its fan behind the pulley. If you can, it is way too loose.
 Note that starting the engine causes a quick drop in battery charge, which puts a demand on the alternator. Once the charge has been replaced, demand drops, and voltage will rise - this with a loose belt. It is vital to get this fixed before the belt becomes glazed, or you will need another new belt.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit

Re: Anyone changed out the fan clutch or alternator for '85...
Reply #11
Yahoo Message Number: 126960
Quote
These are exactly the symptom of a loose belt. VERY loose!
Addendum, a test - with the engine cold, start the engine, turn on the lights, run for 2-min, then turn off lights and engine. CAREFULLY touch the alternator pulley quickly. If hot, the belt has been slipping and the friction caused the rapid heating.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit

Re: Anyone changed out the fan clutch or alternator for '85...
Reply #12
Yahoo Message Number: 126961
Quote
Hmm.. In looking at the specs for the Sure Power Industries isolators, I may need to jump to the 120A model over the smaller 70A model that I suspect may be in place now -- since I've just upgraded the alternator to the 78A model (ours is the 12Si model from what I gather)..  I'll look into this further.. I suppose that IF I see this happen again in the future I could bypass the isolator temporarily to see if the problem disappears.. Luckily so far when it's not working, it generally stays that way for a while..
If your alternator exceeds the rating of the isolator, you should upgrade it. However, it does not become intermittent. It contains a pair of high-current semiconductor diodes, and when they fail, it happens immediately, and is permanent.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit

Re: Anyone changed out the fan clutch or alternator for '85...
Reply #13
Yahoo Message Number: 126962
If you have a voltmeter, with the engine off there were three connections on my isolator, 2 hots and one dead (alternator).
If you are driving and not charging, jump the 2 hots, bypassing the isolator and charging all of your batteries.
When you are on the road, this does it.

__ Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.
-Mark Twain

__ From: Rick Flower nrf@...>
 To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 3:02 PM
 Subject: Re: [LD] Re: Anyone changed out the fan clutch or alternator for '85...

Re: Anyone changed out the fan clutch or alternator for '85...
Reply #14
Yahoo Message Number: 126965
Quote
On 29.11.2011 13:33, aq433 wrote: "  Addendum, a test - with the engine cold, start the engine, turn on the lights, run for 2-min, then turn off lights and engine. CAREFULLY touch the alternator pulley quickly. If hot, the belt has been slipping and the friction caused the rapid heating."

I've done that a few times after I just shutoff the engine but only touched the belt and it was more or less room temp -- it was not burning hot like I'd expect if it were slipping excessively..  However, I'll look into that as we move forward -- next time I drive it (or start it).
Thanks!

Re: Anyone changed out the fan clutch or alternator for '85.
Reply #15
Yahoo Message Number: 126969
We had odd alternator/battery/alternator problems in our 87 that turned out to a bad fuse

Lk in 87 tk

Sent by iPhone
2018 24' Twin King (replacing 1987 22' TK)

Re: Anyone changed out the fan clutch or alternator for '85...
Reply #16
Yahoo Message Number: 126970
Quote
I've done that a few times after I just shutoff the engine but only touched the belt and it was more or less room temp -- it was not burning hot like I'd expect if it were slipping excessively..  However, I'll look into that as we move forward -- next time I drive it (or start it).
Thanks!
Actually, the belt will probably not feel particularly hot - it is not a good conductor of heat. You need to touch the actual pulley to test. After 2 min from cold start, it should be cold if there is no slipping.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit

now belt squeal and bad Ju Ju, was Re: Anyone changed out the fan cl
Reply #17
Yahoo Message Number: 126983
Quote
P.S. You were right about the belt tension.. When I kick in the AC (or defroster), I get a short squeal for about 5-10 seconds -- I'll need to adjust that before the next outing.
Definitely get it checked.

We have  '93 30' island bed and had a tune-up done before heading out on trip.  I noticed afterward that when I turned on the AC there would be a short squeal before things settled down and the noise went away.  It would last 1-3 seconds.  Since we had had our belts replaced I figured it was something with new belts.

Fast forward a few days later and we were traveling the back way into Las Vegas by way of the Hoover Dam route and were on that looooooong downhill grade that ends with a gorge at the bottom.  This is the stretch of road just before you climb the ridge where you can look down on the Hoover Dam and wind your way down again to cross the dam.

We were about 1/3 the way along the long downhill grade and not in any hurry because I was also towing our Jeep ... and the morning was warming up so I decided to turn on the cab AC.

There was a short squeal and then a pop ... so I decided that maybe I should pull over and check to make sure that I didn't have any issues before continuing on.

Except that I couldn't stop.  The belt that popped threw other belts off or caused other problems and besides losing the AC I also lost steering and brakes ... and our downhill speed started slowly increasing despite the fact that I was already in a lower gear.  Apparently losing the AC belt is bad Ju Ju when going downhill.

My wife asked if there were any problems and I told her that I'd let her know when we got to the gorge.  With the steering gone I would heave on the steering wheel and only fractionally change the direction of the rig - kind of what you would get if you were slowly drifting across in your own lane.  I knew I would never make the turn at the bottom.

I was standing on the brakes but they were gone as well.  I tried downshifting the automatic to an even lower gear to use the engine to help slow us but that didn't work because the RPMs were already too high to get to the gear that I wanted.

I thought about drifting over to the side of the road and praying that the softer side shoulder would slow us down but with almost no steering there was a good change we'd hit a steeper area of the shoulder ditch and be pulled too far to the right and up tilted at 45 degrees against some embankment which would have torn off the side of the coach.

As we drifted around the final bend in the road I could see a large gravel and dirt parking lot on the left hand side of the road just before the bridge at the bottom.  It looked to be about 100 yards or so long.  The problem was even if I could make over to that side of the road, and manage to get into the drift/gravel somehow ... there wasn't anything to keep us from rocketing off the lip of canyon when we reached the end of the lot.  Plus, there was oncoming traffic which meant that I couldn't drift over to that side of the road.

I'm no lightweight - about 280 lbs.  When I say I was standing on the brakes I mean I had both feet applied and was using the steering wheel to leverage myself for more pressure.

Finally, finally our speed stopped climbing and started slowing a little bit but it was like watching ice melt.  I don't know if it was the adrenaline or the jeep brakes assisting.  And somehow there was just enough of break in oncoming traffic where I was able to somehow shoot the gap and get across the road and into the gravel lot ... and by some miracle we managed to stop about 30 yards from the edge of the canyon.

Before we had stopped  I had told my wife to go to the coach door and take our son (who was around 3-4 at the time) and get ready to jump out if I told her to do it.  Before we got to the lot I didn't think we'd have a snowballs chance in heck of stopping ... and even after making it to the dirt and gravel I didn't think we'd slow enough before reaching the edge ... but I didn't feel like going down with the ship either.  I was also going to jump and had my door open.

I guess the Cliff Notes version (no pun intended) is:  Get your belt checked if you have a squeal.  I had no idea what could happen when a belt broke.  I know now.

H

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Re: Anyone changed out the fan clutch or alternator for '85...
Reply #18
Yahoo Message Number: 126988
Rick
 Assuming the belt is not slipping, I would suspect the problem is in either in bad connection in the primary wiring, between the alternator and the battery, or in the alternator itself.
Delco alternators, of your vintage, used an internal regulator. There could be either an poor internal connection or an intermittently bad regulator.
Most rebuilt alternators do not included new regulators. You may have bought the previous owner's problem.
 I carried a few spare items in our '83 LD, based on the advice of my long-term counter man at Napa and my own experience. They included: A full set of new belts, a couple of spark plugs, rotor and cap, ignition module, fuel pump (until the electric aux pump was added), water pump, carb rebuild kit (including floats), alternator rebuild kit and a fan clutch. I ended up using the belts, ignition module and fan clutch, while on the road.
 There is something about the 350-V8s, when used in vans, that wears out the water pumps and fan clutches quickly.  The water pump has a long nose that puts a lot of strain on the shaft bearings.
The  belt that drives the alternator doesn't have much contact area with the alternator's pulley so it can easily slip, if not tight enough.
If slipping, it can overheat and break, when it does, it will most likely jam the other three belts, causing them to break or to get hopelessly twisted up, usually requiring the cutting of all the belts and complete replacement. It's a real treat to do this little repair on the side of the road.
Take Steve's suggestion and buy a Krikit gauge for setting the belt tension.
Single serpentine belts are a definite improvement.

Larry
2001 MB
* Not to be confused with Larry W (3000 of my posts are actually from expert Larry W due to Yahoo transition mis-step)

Re: now belt squeal and bad Ju Ju, was Re: Anyone changed out the fa
Reply #19
Yahoo Message Number: 126989
Yikes!!  What a story!  Luckily we're home and not planning any driving on it for a while -- I'll check it out before we head out again.

now belt squeal and bad Ju Ju, was Re: Anyone changed out the fan cl
Reply #20
Yahoo Message Number: 126991
"There was a short squeal and then a pop"

H

Glad you are still with the living and that no one got hurt.
Unlike automobiles, our LD's power brakes are energized by the power steering pump.
Lose the power steering pump belt and you lose both the steering and brakes.
BTW, hydraulicly-boosted power brake units have an 'accumulator' that stores enough power for at least one full stop, as long as you do not pump the brakes.
Accumulators do fail.
Link below provides information on hydraulic boosted brakes and how to easily test the accumulator.
http://www.cdxetextbook.com/brakes/brake/comp/hydrobrakebooster.html>

Larry
2001 MB
* Not to be confused with Larry W (3000 of my posts are actually from expert Larry W due to Yahoo transition mis-step)

Re: Anyone changed out the fan clutch or alternator for '85...
Reply #21
Yahoo Message Number: 126992
thanks for the info on the rebuilt alternators.. I was not aware that the voltage regulators are not replaced when they do a rebuild..
That's interesting since our '96 Chevy P/U with a 350 which has a CS130 alternator was giving me problems a while back -- I took it out (it's a serpentine system -- easy peasy) and had it tested at the local auto parts shop where it passed with flying colors, however the problem persisted with dead batteries, etc.. On a hunch I bought a replacement internal voltage regulator and followed the steps on a video I found on Youtube for doing the replacement and once reassembled, it worked fine.. I found it amusing that the tester didn't even find any problems but the regulator was bad regardless.

I've also noticed that the 350 in our Chevy 350 also eats water pumps as I've now had 2 since we bought it (it's on the 3rd now if you include the factory installed one).  I was eating alternators every 3-4 years until I moved to a beefier model and haven't had problems for the most part since...

BTW: I like the idea of the spare-parts bin for these.. From now on, I'll be carrying a decent set of tools, jumper cables and I'm also going to leave my charger (runs on AC from the genset) in the LD just in case.. I'll see about getting some of the others too.. Thx!

-- Rick

say what?
Reply #22
Yahoo Message Number: 126995
I see a lot of this here.
 
Quote
We have '93 30' island bed and had a tune-up done before heading out on trip...
Given that where the bed is has nothing to do with the engine or chassis, I wonder why we do this? Since some model years offered either Ford and GM chassis, it would seem to me that specifying the manufacturer/engine would be more useful in getting advice.
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy

Re: Anyone changed out the fan clutch or alternator for '85...
Reply #23
Yahoo Message Number: 127005
Larry,
 After reading of the horror stories of having one's (not easily accessible) fuel pump go out, I was glad to read of your adding an electric auxiliary fuel pump.
 Have you posted this procedure anywhere as I was seriously thinking of doing the same to my MidBath?
 Is the Electric pump actually in use in combination with the mechanical one or just at the ready until you need it?

What brand of electric fuel pump did you go with?

Thanks,

Ed 94' 26.5' Red Lazy Daze MidBath named "TranQuility"

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Re: Anyone changed out the fan clutch or alternator for '85...
Reply #24
Yahoo Message Number: 127014
"I was glad to read of your adding an electric auxiliary fuel pump.
Have you posted this procedure anywhere as I was seriously thinking of doing the same to my MidBath?"

Ed
 I was referring to what I did to our 1983 LD. It was equipped with a low pressure fuel system and a carburetor. The aux electric pump was mounted at the rear of the LD, next to the fuel tank, so that it pressurized the fuel line, helping top prevent vapor lock. It was wired to its own switch and was used only when climbing long grades in hot weather, in condition where vapor lock is common.

Your LD is fuel injected and has, I believe, an in-tank fuel pump.
If so, adding a second pump is not possible without extensive mods.
If the pump is mounted outside the tank, a second pump could be mounted in parallel, with the factory pump, with either valves to direct the fuel or quick-disconnects,  imitating the backup  setups used in long distance off-road racing.

Larry
2001 MB
* Not to be confused with Larry W (3000 of my posts are actually from expert Larry W due to Yahoo transition mis-step)