Help with a buying decision November 20, 2011, 05:35:02 am Yahoo Message Number: 126753I will attempt to be brief. We just left the factory and have crossed the 24 twin king off our list for the following reasons: My bride who is 64 cannot not fathom climbing up and down a ladder at night to sleep in the loft, we have different sleep habits in that she sleeps in until 6:00 am while i am up at 3:00 or earlier, my bride feels that the front seating area is too claustrophobic with the bath adjacent to the driver seat. The mid bath seems to resolve these two problems, but it is 3 feet longer. Can you LD RVers tell us if being 3 feet longer really has an impact in the use of the vehicle? Would the additional 3 fee limit access to areas where we might go? Is it really different to drive than a 24? Any other possible problems we ought to consider. Our other choice seems to be a Winnebago View, with its own separate set if potential issues.Thanks
Help with a buying decision Reply #1 – November 20, 2011, 05:43:36 am Yahoo Message Number: 126754I will attempt to be brief. We just left the factory and have crossed the 24 twin king off our list for the following reasons: My bride who is 64 cannot not fathom climbing up and down a ladder at night to sleep in the loft, we have different sleep habits in that she sleeps in until 6:00 am while i am up at 3:00 or earlier, my bride feels that the front seating area is too claustrophobic with the bath adjacent to the driver seat. The mid bath seems to resolve these two problems, but it is 3 feet longer. Can you LD RVers tell us if being 3 feet longer really has an impact in the use of the vehicle? Would the additional 3 fee limit access to areas where we might go? Is it really different to drive than a 24? Any other possible problems we ought to consider. Our other choice seems to be a Winnebago View, with its own separate set if potential issues.Thanks
Re: Help with a buying decision Reply #2 – November 20, 2011, 08:30:12 am Yahoo Message Number: 126759Greg, I think I may have seen you at LD. I was there last week. I have the 26.5 RB with the entertainment center. This length is not bad for going to National Parks and even parking is lots, however I do park away from the crowd.Betty Jean
Re: Help with a buying decision Reply #3 – November 20, 2011, 10:39:01 am Yahoo Message Number: 126763"Can you LD RVers tell us if being 3 feet longer really has an impact in the use of the vehicle? Would the additional 3 fee limit access to areas where we might go? Is it really different to drive than a 24?" There's not much of a difference. I moved from a 22' twin/king to a 26.5' midbath, and adapted very quickly. You'll be able to get into 95% of the campsites you encounter--generally speaking, you don't start hitting limitations until you get above 30'. And the midbath's additional interior space is very pleasant to have.Andy Bairdhttp://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: Help with a buying decision Reply #4 – November 20, 2011, 11:11:13 am Yahoo Message Number: 126769My wife and I have driven a 27 ft MB rig 10,000 miles over the past two years in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska and New Mexico. We have only encounter one situation where the 27 ft length was an issue and that was a very curvy road in a national monument limited to 26 ft or less. If you are planning most of your travels in the west you should have no problems with a 27 ft rig. When we test drove the 27 ft and compared it to the 24 ft we were convinced that the extra 3 ft provided valuable additional space with no real disadvantages regarding maneuverability. Larry
Re: Help with a buying decision Reply #5 – November 20, 2011, 11:14:40 am Yahoo Message Number: 126770Quote"We just left the factory and have crossed the 24 twin king off our list... Can you LD RVers tell us if being 3 feet longer really has an impact in the use of the vehicle?"Thanks Greg GregIf you are new at driving an RV most any length can be intimidating! Once you are in the drivers seat however your perspective will change. Remember that wherever you point the front end the back end will follow. The longer the coach the more attention you will have to pay to things like turning just a bit wider in the turns and watching the 'tail swing' when you are maneuvering near objects (like gas pumps). A back-up camera is helpful as is a co-pilot who knows how to give directions. A set of two-way radios can help here for backing into a site. I wouldn't let the difference between 24 and 27 slow me down for a second. I drive a 30' and outside of normal caution I go wherever I choose. And I love the fact that I've got a dedicated bedroom on the ground floor.Steve S.Lazy Bones & Jiggs
Re: Help with a buying decision Reply #6 – November 20, 2011, 02:22:39 pm Yahoo Message Number: 126777Hey Greg,My wife and I drove a 24 footer for 18-20 yrs, both towing and not towing. We upgraded to our 06 Midbath (26 !/2 footer - the extra 1/2 foot now is at the front end), and have found absolutely no practical difference in driving. And with regard to the Winnebago, as far as long term quality goes, I would run, run, run away from buying anything Winnebago, or any other mass produced motor home.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Help with a buying decision Reply #7 – November 20, 2011, 02:58:32 pm Yahoo Message Number: 126779To "run away" leaves you with very few choices, and ignores the dramatic improvement in quality of even the average motorhome in the last two decades. Class Cs, in particular, have more in common with each other than not: mostly because they use the Ford chassis, but also the same generator, refrigerator, water heater, furnace, vent fans, all manner of purchased components. Our 14 year old Class C Maverick (by Georgie Boy) definitely qualifies as mass produced, but at 170,000 miles, has had no leaks or structural issues. I attribute a lot of this to the steel structure and laminated panels used in the construction. The minor repairs required on the holding tanks and drawer slides, I easily did myself. All my friends with Winnebagos are happy with them, and would buy (or have bought) another. Mass production is method that can yield high quality, lower cost products, and that is as true in the RV world as anywhere else.Eric
Re: Help with a buying decision Reply #8 – November 20, 2011, 03:25:33 pm Yahoo Message Number: 126781Eric, You are most knowledgeable about RV's. Your posts are most informative. But, I do wonder why you hang around this forum, as the LD does not seem to hold much interest for you. You seem to be quite happy with what you have. That's a good thing. I have seen and owned a few RV's. For me, there is nothing, absolutely nothing, that compares with an LD. I like that the LD is hand-built and takes months to complete. I am grateful that we stumbled on the LD. We have no interest in any other brand.On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 12:58:24 -0800, Eric Greenwell eric@...> wrote:
Re: Help with a buying decision Reply #9 – November 20, 2011, 03:50:29 pm Yahoo Message Number: 126782How many stars do they have? Inquiring minds want to know. When we went looking for a motor home we fell in love with a Trek Class A. We found Lazy Daze ni an RV Magazine and concluded they were solid just based on their website. As we wrote up our down payment on a new MB in Feb 2003 I commented that I could not find TREK in the book. The sales person said, "It's in there," and after a minute or two found it and said, "Oh, look! No stars"best, paul *"Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life." Steve Jobs*QuoteAll my friends with Winnebagos are happy with them, and would buy (or have bought) another. Mass production is method that can yield high quality, lower cost products, and that is as true in the RV world as anywhere else. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Help with a buying decision Reply #10 – November 20, 2011, 03:57:05 pm Yahoo Message Number: 126785On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:50:28 -0800, Paul Smith Sr psmithsr@...> wrote:QuoteAs we wrote up our down payment on a new MB in Feb 2003 I commented that I could not find TREK in the book. The sales person said, "It's in there," and after a minute or two found it and said, "Oh, look! No stars" Sales person? You mean the person that took your order. We have never seen a sales person at LD. OK, maybe Ed, but mess with him and he would show you door.PS, We had drinks in a Trek last year, I was not impressed in the least.
Re: Help with a buying decision Reply #11 – November 20, 2011, 04:05:41 pm Yahoo Message Number: 126786I am grateful that we stumbled on theQuoteLD. We have no interest in any other brand. We're on our second Lazy Daze and have a camping friend who is on his fifth!! Lazy Daze. When you discover a winner, you stick with it.ed
Re: Help with a buying decision Reply #12 – November 20, 2011, 04:46:09 pm Yahoo Message Number: 126790Give me a break! ;o) Everyone knows that writing up an order is what constitutes sales at Lazy Daze. I was just frustrated that I couldn't recall his name. I don't think it was Steve.best, paul PS> Sheesh! At least I kept the women off my back by not calling him a salesman (running and ducking....... ;o) *"Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life." Steve Jobs*QuoteAs we wrote up our down payment on a new MB in Feb 2003 I commented that I could not find TREK in the book. The sales person said, "It's in there," and after a minute or two found it and said, "Oh, look! No stars" Sales person? You mean the person that took your order. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Help with a buying decision Reply #13 – November 20, 2011, 08:33:48 pm Yahoo Message Number: 126799Thanks for your response, Eric. I stand corrected. My comments came from a friend who visited the factory, quite some time ago, and witnessed some shoddy work that was ignored by the production people. And it was a few years ago. Perhaps things have changed a great deal.Barry "O" 06MB - Ruby Red[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Help with a buying decision Reply #14 – November 20, 2011, 08:59:27 pm Yahoo Message Number: 126801Lazy Daze is the only new Class C left with the floor plans we like. In second place, but way back, is one of the View (Sprinter chassis) floor plans. Until we decide we definitely don't want a new motorhome, I'm monitoring this group, hoping something will come up that helps us figure out what is best for us. For example, Andy's mods to his LD have moved me a bit more towards an LD, as I realized changes were probably not as difficult as I thought. In any case, there is no rush to decide, since we travel very little until next April or May, and we still have an adequate vehicle. The point of my post wasn't that the quality of LD has slipped, but that the quality of the other brands has risen, and that should be at least accepted. Regardless of how good an LD is built, the owner's experience and costs will depend very heavily on how well Ford, Dometic, Onan, and the other suppliers did their job.Eric
Re: Help with a buying decision Reply #15 – November 20, 2011, 10:57:46 pm Yahoo Message Number: 126803We've toured several motorhome manufacturers, and it's fascinating to watch the production process. There's a lot of design that goes into the process itself, and a large manufacturer does it differently than a small one. We've been to a couple in the Junction City, OR, area, a couple back in Indiana, and one in Ontario, CA. We hope to get to the LD factory next year, to pick up an LD, or at least for a tour!If you are near manufacturer, be sure to get a tour, and hope they haven't cut back on these as have so many manufacturers of other products.Eric
Re: Help with a buying decision Reply #16 – November 21, 2011, 08:01:27 am Yahoo Message Number: 126807While I do like the fact that the Sprinter chassis comes with a fuel efficient diesel engine, the main problem with it is CCC, no matter who the manufacturer is that builds the "house" on it. Especially if they come with a slide, you'll have little, if any, CCC left for your "stuff." Unfortunately, the last time I looked, Winnebago doesn't put enough information on their website in order to determine what the CCC might be on their Sprinter based RVs. The only way to determine that is to actually go inside one and look at the weight sticker. The RVCG probably has this information in their ratings guide.Linda Hylton http://earl-linda.blogspot.com
Re: Help with a buying decision Reply #17 – November 21, 2011, 08:25:41 am Yahoo Message Number: 126809Was it Todd?
Re: Help with a buying decision Reply #18 – November 21, 2011, 10:54:59 am Yahoo Message Number: 126812Quote I will attempt to be brief. We just left the factory and have crossed >the 24 twin king off our list for the following reasons: My bride who >is 64 cannot not fathom climbing up and down a ladder at night to >sleep in the loft,. Can you LD RVers tell us if being 3 feet longer really has an impact >in the use of the vehicle? Would the additional 3 fee limit access to >areas where we might go? Is it really different to drive than a 24? >Any other possible problems we ought to consider. Our other choice seems to be a Winnebago View, with its own separate >set if potential issues. Hi Greg, You've gotten a lot of good responses from a mostly biased in favor of LD group; big surprise!;-) Here is my take on some of your questions. For perspective, we have a 26.5' 2003 Mid-bath that we bought new and picked up in June of 2003; can't believe that back then we waited 8 months for a rig to get built! I'm almost embarrased to reveal this, but in September of this year, while driving between our two favorite places, Yellowstone and Grand Teton, our rig hit the 100,000 mile mark! My how time flies when you're having fun! As we put our beloved Lazy Daze into hibernation, the odometer reads over 104,000 miles. Now to your questions; we are in a simlar age group. When we brought our rig home, that ladder your wife doesn't want to climb got put in our basement never to see the light of day again. We bought the mid-bath because we too have some different sleeping patterns and it works well in that there are two seperate living areas. We've driven to Alaska, nearly all the national parks in the west, northwest and a few in the southwest as well as New England. I don't think there was ever a time we wished we were in a smaller rig. We tour without a toad and have never found it problematic to shop, buy gas, or find a campsite. There are times I wish we had a toad, like last August in Glacier but other than some small Class B RVs I don't think you could drive the Going to the Sun Road anyway. During the past year, we have been looking at new RVs with an open mind. We've looked at some luxurious Class A's, some small A's, some of the Sprinter based C's like the View, and even looked at a few fifth wheels. So far, the only thing we saw that even came close to liking as much or more than our 2003 LD was a brand new 2011 Mid-bath we saw in the Tetons. And even then there were a few things we found that we preferred in our current rig than in the new one.(that's another story though) But I have to say I really like the Ford cab in the newer rigs and I've heard that they drive much better too. We think that the Lazy Daze we own and that has served us so well is possibly the best thing we ever bought. There are things I wished they did a bit differently but so far, I haven't found something better for our wants and needs. Steve K ( Not to offend any Tiffin owners who may lurk here, but "they ain't building 'em like they used to" seems to apply there.)
Re: Visiting The Factory Reply #19 – November 21, 2011, 01:21:26 pm Yahoo Message Number: 126813Quote We've toured several motorhome manufacturers, and it's fascinating to watch the production process. We hope to get to the LD factory next year, to pick up an LD, or at least for a tour! I'm not sure whether a tour of the LD factory would reassure or scare one off. We visted back in early '07 when our '06-chassis TK was being built, to check on the progress. I was surprised and frankly dismayed to see the incredible clutter and seeming haphazardness of the workshop. I had envisioned this orderly, "eat off the floor" atmosphere of the careful craftsman. Hah! It looked more like my garage, which I hide from public view. I had to keep saying to myself, "they've been doing this for 50+ years so they must know what they're about." How these gleaming beauties emerge from that jumble is a mystery to me. That said, it's nearly five years, 36,000 miles, and many hundreds of camping nights later and we're still certain we made the right choice. Not one repair, not one failure, not one leak. It looks and works like new. So, if you do tour the factory, don't cringe; just think, "alchemy." -- Jon & Loni
Re: Help with a buying decision Reply #20 – November 21, 2011, 02:45:23 pm Yahoo Message Number: 126814"Linda & Earl Hylton" wrote: While I do like the fact that the Sprinter chassis comes with a fuel efficient diesel engine, the main problem with it is CCC, no matter who the manufacturer is that builds the "house" on it. Especially if they come with a slide, you'll have little, if any, CCC left for your "stuff." --- AFAIK, the Mercedes Benz Sprinter 3500 cab chassis used as a platform for all manufacturers' "boxes" has a GVWR of 11,030 pounds, whether the wheel base is 144" or 170". The Ford *E-350* cab chassis with dual rear wheels has GVWRs of 11500 for the 138" wheel base, and 12500 for the 158" and/or 176" wheel base; not many class C rigs are currently built on this chassis. The Ford *E-450* offers a GVWR of 14500 for wheelbases of 158" and 176". (Scroll to page 4) https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/specialty_vehicles/Class_C_Chassis_brochure_LoRes.pdfI don't think that discovering how much CCC (NCC; whatever the acronym is now) is really available will be an easy task; no manufacturer's (of Sprinter-based chassis motorhomes) website that I looked was at all forthcoming, and I suspect that is because most of the 11030 pounds of GVWR is consumed by the "box" and the "optional equipment"/add-ons (particularly the models with slides).As ever, YMMV.Joan
Re: Visiting The Factory Reply #21 – November 21, 2011, 02:47:07 pm Yahoo Message Number: 126815"I'm not sure whether a tour of the LD factory would reassure or scare one off... It looked more like my garage, which I hide from public view."-- Jon & LoniYeah, I also like to see a well kept and clean 'service' facility. However, the Mothership is a 'manufacturing' facility. There's a big difference. I patronize a local RV Technician who is Anal about his work. He's such a perfectionist that he will redo a job if he's not satisfied with the way it turned out. Yet, if you could see his shop you just might turn around and drive away, it's that bad. Looks can be deceiving!Steve S. Lazy Bones & Jiggs
Re: Help with a buying decision Reply #22 – November 21, 2011, 06:38:56 pm Yahoo Message Number: 126817Hello Greg, We had a new 24 ft Born Free for three years and about 35,000 miles and then a new 26 ft Mid Bath Lazy Daze for three years and about 35,000 miles. We found a definite change
Re: Help with a buying decision Reply #23 – November 21, 2011, 07:11:09 pm Yahoo Message Number: 126819I'm not a regular on this site anymore so I don't know if this has been discussed. A year and a half ago I was
Re: Visiting The Factory Reply #24 – November 21, 2011, 07:25:36 pm Yahoo Message Number: 126820"five years, 36,000 miles, and many hundreds of camping nights later... we're still certain we made the right choice. Not one repair, not one failure, not one leak. It looks and works like new." Just to put that in context, here's a quotation from a couple who bought a brand new 2011 Itasca Navion 24K, a Sprinter-based motorhome manufactured by Winnebago. Less than a week into their maiden voyage, they posted this: "Every day on the road we get more settled in, as we live with the slide always in, and the water pump only working if one of us held the button down while the other used the water, and the generator shutting itself off, and the outside compartment doors refusing to close easily... etc., etc. Too much stuff to ignore, and all of it on warranty. Andy called ahead finding a Winnebago repair shop in Pasco, Washington." Quite a contrast to the typical Lazy Daze experience that Jon & Loni described.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
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