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Topic: Progressive Industries Surge Protection - what current consensus? (Read 15 times) previous topic - next topic
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Progressive Industries Surge Protection - what current consensus?
Yahoo Message Number: 118441
I'm going to add a PI HW30 surge protector to my '03MB.  After searching the archives, it seems the consensus is to add it AFTER the transfer switch, and it mounts nicely under the bathroom sink on MB models.

Still true?
 If so, can anyone let me know what kind of wiring I'm in for?  I've run plenty of Romex in homes, but none in an RV (with all the associated shaking, rattling, and rolling).
 Specifically, it looks like I need to get from the transfer switch output to the HW30, and then back from the HW30 to the Breaker Panel/Converter area.  Can I do it will all new wire, or will I need to splice into existing.  If splice, what's the 'right way' to do that in an RV?

Remote display or integrated?

Thanks for any advice, tips, or ideas.

Rich S.
'03 MB in NC
2003 MB
Progressive Industries Surge Protection - what current consensus?
Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 118446
Quote
I'm going to add a PI HW30 surge protector to my '03MB.  After searching the archives, it seems the consensus is to add it AFTER the transfer switch, and it mounts nicely under the bathroom sink on MB models.

Still true?
What I am going to say is my personal opinion. Others on this forum may not agree. I don't think it is all that necessary to put your built-in SP downstream from your transfer switch. If another spot is a more convenient install, and it protects only shore power and not genset, go ahead and install it there. I have two reasons for this opinion.

First, if not dry camping, the vast majority of your use will be on shore power. And here is where you really need the protection.
It is still not uncommon to encounter faulty electrical hookups in campgrounds virtually anywhere, and especially in Mexico.
The actual time camping on genset power is small for many people compared to time on shore power.

Second, and this is only from my first hand experience, the power from the genset is pretty clean. For the first eight years of my LDs life, I had an AC monitor on which I could watch the voltage and frequency of my ac power. The voltage out- put of my genset was about 119 volts which, of course dropped some as load increased. The frequency was always 60 Hz.
Neither of these parameters varied much even when the genset was surging (the engine RPM varying). Moreover, you are never going to have reversed polarity or floating ground or low voltage due to heavy usage in the campground while on the genset as you can find with the shore power.

I can't speak for a MB, but for my TK the install was very easy. I didn't need any wires at all. In mine there is a junction box where the soft shore power cable connects to the Romex. I just removed the jbox and install the Progressive Industries Surge Protector there and reconnected the existing wiring. I ran the wire for the monitor up behind the range so I could mount it at eye level.

Of course YMMV.

Tom Johnston
Re: Progressive Industries Surge Protection - what current consensu
Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 118453
Rich

I have installed several hardwired surge protector both ways.
It is easier to wire it so only shore power is monitored but having the generator monitored is also a good idea since generators occasionally have their problems too. It only take an extra hour or so to install it so everything is protected.
You need to pull the power center out to access the transfer switch's output wires, the two that run to the power center's  breakers. Cut the output wires and splice on four new wires, long enough to go to where the new surge protection is mounted. Use 12-gauge wire and make the splices with wire nuts, with a few wraps of electrical tape around the nuts or you can solder the wires.
I have found taped wire nuts to work fine for connection and so has the Mothership, as long as everything is secured Get a remote monitor so you can keep and eye on the electrical.
Readouts mounted on the surge protector itself may not be easily accessible since they usually get located inside of the sealed area near the power center.

Larry
2001 MB
* Not to be confused with Larry W (3000 of my posts are actually from expert Larry W due to Yahoo transition mis-step)
Re: Progressive Industries Surge Protection - what current consensu
Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 118458
"having the generator monitored is also a good idea since generators occasionally have their problems too."
 I'm with Larry on this one. While Tom is correct in saying that most of us use shore power more than generator power, my feeling is that if you're going to spend several hundred bucks to add a surge suppressor and several hours installing it, you might as well do the job right and be FULLY protected. To cut corners on this installation is to be penny wise and pound foolish, in my humble opinion.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Progressive Industries Surge Protection - what current consensu
Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 118459
Andy wrote:

Quote
"having the generator monitored is also a good idea since generators occasionally have their problems too."
 I'm with Larry on this one. While Tom is correct in saying that most of us use shore power more than generator power, my feeling is that if you're going to spend several hundred bucks to add a surge suppressor and several hours installing it, you might as well do the job right and be FULLY protected. To cut corners on this installation is to be penny wise and pound foolish, in my humble opinion.
Ok. It is healthy for differing opinions to be expressed on a subject.

Can you give me an example of  "an occasional problem on a generator"  which a surge suppressor would protect against, and which, if it happened in an unprotected coach, would cause damage or injury? And if so, what are the odds of this occurring? I have heard of motorhomes being damaged by lightning more often than I have heard of them being damaged by a faulty genset. It seems like that happened recently :-)

Then also, folks who decide they want surge protection must first make the decision whether they want a built-in unit or the portable kind, and many choose the latter. Those people who are protecting themselves with  portable surge protectors are not protecting their genset are they? Just a thought. I'm not advocating against installing the SP downstream of the xfer switch, I'm  just saying I don't think it is absolutely necessary and don't necessarily think of it as "cutting corners". I installed mine to protect against faulty shore power only, and I have never been one to cut corners. YMMV

Tom
Re: Progressive Industries Surge Protection - what current consensu
Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 118465
"Can you give me an example of "an occasional problem on a generator" which a surge suppressor would protect against, and which, if it happened in an unprotected coach"

Tom
 If the generator's speed control goes wacko and it runs too fast or too slow, various 120-VAC electrical devices will be exposed to out of range voltage and high or low frequency. The surge protector would disconnect if any of its preset perimeters are exceeded, protecting the devices.
 Generators have very large coils that can produce high surge voltages if the right connection becomes lose or intermittent.
How common are these problems...who knows. That's why I got a surge protector. The way yours is wired should be fine 99.9% of the time.
Wired through the transfer switch, it would be protected 100% of the time.

Larry
2001 MB
* Not to be confused with Larry W (3000 of my posts are actually from expert Larry W due to Yahoo transition mis-step)
Re: Progressive Industries Surge Protection - what current consensu
Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 118466
"Can you give me an example of  'an occasional problem on a generator'... "
 The original quotation was Larry's, but I can certainly think of things that could go wrong. For example, if the generator's voltage regulator fails, voltage could go too high. If its speed regulator malfunctions, the line frequency could go too high or too low. Worn brushes or slip rings could lead to spikes or dropouts.
 When I run my generator and open the microwave oven's door, I can see the oven's AC-powered light flickering. I asked a Cummins-Onan technician about it, and he said that was normal. "If you put an oscilloscope on that [AC] line and looked at the waveform, you'd be shocked. It's dirty power."
 Now, I don't personally know anybody whose coach has been damaged by a faulty generator. (Maybe Larry does.) It's all a matter of probabilities. But I'll say again: if you're going to the trouble and expense of protecting your household power, why not do it completely? It just seems like the sensible thing to do, to me at least.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Progressive Industries Surge Protection - what current consensu
Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 118467
Less that two days after picking up our new RB this spring at the factory, the generator voltage spiked to 150VAC then shut off. Traced the problem to a crack in the sealed circuit board that regulates the voltage. Water got in the crack and the board failed. It was an Onan defect and they replaced the board under warranty. No more problems.
If you have a generator, the output SHOULD go through a surge suppressor. The extra effort to accomplish this is well worth it! Mike

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2010 RB "Monty"  & currently: 2021 RB "Villa Verde"
2004 Born Free 26'
1998 Beaver Patriot 33'
1992 Barth Breakaway 28'
1982 Fleetwood Jamboree 23'
1982 Dolphin/Toyota 22'
Re: Progressive Industries Surge Protection - what current consensu
Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 118473
From: Larry
 Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 2:18 PM
 To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [LD] Re: Progressive Industries Surge Protection - what current
 consensus?

"Can you give me an example of "an occasional problem on a generator" which a surge suppressor would protect against, and which, if it happened in an unprotected coach"

Tom
 If the generator's speed control goes wacko and it runs too fast or too slow, various 120-VAC electrical devices will be exposed to out of range voltage and high or low frequency. The surge protector would disconnect if any of its preset perimeters are exceeded, protecting the devices.
 Generators have very large coils that can produce high surge voltages if the right connection becomes lose or intermittent.
How common are these problems...who knows. That's why I got a surge protector. The way yours is wired should be fine 99.9% of the time.
Wired through the transfer switch, it would be protected 100% of the time.

Larry
 For some, a surge protector is unnecessary. I have a Prosine 2000 that monitors incoming AC, whether from shore power or generator. If the inverter is enabled, it will shut off incoming AC if it goes out of voltage or frequency spec (programmable set points) and revert to the inverter. A surge protector might be useful if I regularly used questionable RV park shore power, but since I almost never do that, I don't see the point. The biggest risk to sensitive electronics is from a direct lightning strike, or a nearby one that enters the coach via the shore power AC connector. If there's an electrical storm, it's wise not to be hooked up to shore power in any case - - but I sure wouldn't recommend messing with that plug *during* a nearby storm - - could be an enlightening experience.

bumper
bumper
"Yonder" '05 MB
"WLDBLU" glider trailer