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Topic: A very long mystery finally solved (Read 5 times) previous topic - next topic
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A very long mystery finally solved
Yahoo Message Number: 118350
Some of you may remember an electrical problem I began having several months ago: the electric step could not be turned off by the door switch, and, additionally, the Big Foot levelers would intermittently not work. Various people here made helpful suggestions based on the observation that the one commonality seemed to be the electrical Ground. I couldn't find the solution, so I had one tech look at it, and he couldn't find what the problem was either. We had long conversations with Roy Trevino at Big Foot to see if the levelers could be the source of the trouble. Roy helpfully sent us multiple parts to try switching out one-by-one. Nada.
 Eventually I took it to LD as Vince was going to be fixing some paint bubbling problems. He checked out everything in the electrical system and assured me the mysterious problem had nothing to do with my recent radio switch-out. That was comforting to know. But Vince also was unable to find the source of the problem, and, convinced it was a Ford issue, referred me to the Ford Truck shop on the 605.
 They had it for several days, called & said it was fixed. I got there to pick it up, and it *wasn't* fixed. Same problems. So I left it for them to try again.
 Eventually, after extensive system tests, the tech tracked the problem to a solenoid LD had installed under the hood. It was malfunctioning and needed to be replaced. LD sent them one, the Ford tech replaced it, and... voila... everything is finally working at last.

Gremlins are gone, gone, gone. No exorcism necessary!
Re: A very long mystery finally solved
Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 118351
"Eventually, after extensive system tests, the tech tracked the problem to a solenoid LD had installed under the hood"

David

What solenoid under the hood? I have never seen an LD with a Factory installed solenoid under the hood.
Normally, LD installs an isolator and maybe a fused circuit for the CB .
I do not see how a failed isolator could cause your problem.

Puzzled.

Larry
2001 MB
* Not to be confused with Larry W (3000 of my posts are actually from expert Larry W due to Yahoo transition mis-step)
Re: A very long mystery finally solved
Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 118352
"voila... everything is finally working at last"

David,
 Glad you are all set now.  I have used solenoids years back instead of the fancy isolators of today for battery separaiton.  I thought maybe you had an older rig but I see you have a 2010!  I hope this was all under warranty?
 We need to know what type and why that solenoid is there.  Maybe is has to do with some sort of disconnect system?  Were the Jacks installed by LD? If so, maybe they added the solenoid to work in conjunction with the jacks?

Ramon
Re: A very long mystery finally solved
Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 118354
Ramon & Larry,
 The info I posted was given to me by Ford. "Solenoid" was definitely the word they used. It was installed by LD prior to my taking very late delivery in April 2010. The levelers were post-delivery. To further answer your question, tomorrow I'll try to get the info on the part.

David
Re: A very long mystery finally solved
Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 118359
Quote
Ramon & Larry,
 The info I posted was given to me by Ford. "Solenoid" was definitely the word they used. It was installed by LD prior to my taking very late delivery in April 2010. The levelers were post-delivery. To further answer your question, tomorrow I'll try to get the info on the part.
I seem to recall someone posting recently that LD had changed from a diode isolator to an ignition controlled solenoid for charging of the house batteries.

Art
Art and Barbara
Settled in Atterdag Village of Solvang
2015-2022 fulltime in a 2016 Tiffin Allegro Bus 37AP
2002-2015 2002 LD MB
Art's blog
Re: A very long mystery finally solved
Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 118360
" 'Solenoid' was definitely the word they used."
 In the auto industry, "solenoid" is often used where an electrical engineer would say "relay"... just as auto mechanics used to refer to capacitors as "condensers." These antiquated usages persist in mechanics' shop talk, although those in the electronics field abandoned them long ago.
 The question remains: just what relay did Lazy Daze install? I'm familiar with the old relay-based isolators, but like Larry, have trouble imagining how an isolator fault of any find could have caused the symptoms you describe. Inquiring minds want to know more... :-)

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: A very long mystery finally solved
Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 118361
"I seem to recall someone posting recently that LD had changed from a diode isolator to an ignition controlled solenoid for charging of the house batteries."
 Could be. Although I've always distrusted relays somewhat (moving parts = more failure modes), they do have one advantage: they let through 0.6V more juice than a diode isolator.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: A very long mystery finally solved
Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 118362
Quote
Could be. Although I've always distrusted relays somewhat (moving parts = more failure modes), they do have one advantage: they let through 0.6V more juice than a diode isolator.
Not always true... Since the sensing for alternator output is usually at the battery (chassis), the alternator will generally put out about that 0.6V more before dropping it across the isolator. This means 0.6V X current output = lost power from the alternator - not generally a concern.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: A very long mystery finally solved
Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 118363
From: Andy Baird
 Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 8:41 AM
 To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [LD] Re: A very long mystery finally solved

" 'Solenoid' was definitely the word they used."
 In the auto industry, "solenoid" is often used where an electrical engineer would say "relay"... just as auto mechanics used to refer to capacitors as "condensers." These antiquated usages persist in mechanics' shop talk, although those in the electronics field abandoned them long ago.
 The question remains: just what relay did Lazy Daze install? I'm familiar with the old relay-based isolators, but like Larry, have trouble imagining how an isolator fault of any find could have caused the symptoms you describe. Inquiring minds want to know more... :-)

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/

That's pretty much the case, though there are some exceptions. A heavy duty relay, even outside the auto industry, will still often be referred to as a solenoid or contactor. Linear actuators that are powered  by electromagnets (i.e. an electromagnet pulls or pushes a plunder) will also be called a solenoid. These might be used for mechanical movement of another device or might control a built in valve to control the flow of a liquid or gas, in which case they'd be called a solenoid valve.

bumper
bumper
"Yonder" '05 MB
"WLDBLU" glider trailer
Re: A very long mystery finally solved
Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 118381
Thanks for the clarification, Bumper. My post made it sound as I was saying that the word "solenoid" is archaic, which of course it's not. As you pointed out, any electromechanical device with a linear action is a solenoid. We all have solenoid valves controlling the propane flow in our refrigerators, water heaters, and furnaces. What most people nowadays call a relay is a solenoid-operated switch... that's why auto mechanics got into the habit of calling them "solenoids." :-)

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: A very long mystery finally solved
Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 118386
From: Andy Baird
 Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 3:36 PM
 To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [LD] Re: A very long mystery finally solved

As you pointed out, any electromechanical device with a linear action is a solenoid. Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/

True, a solenoid usually converts energy into linear mechanical motion (there are rotary solenoids just to confuse things!). And when more power or range is needed, than would be available from most electric solenoids, there are linear actuators, often powered by an electric motor with gear reduction turning a ball screw to get linear motion. All this stuff was important before computers!

bumper

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bumper
"Yonder" '05 MB
"WLDBLU" glider trailer
Re: A very long mystery finally solved
Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 118388
"Eventually, after extensive system tests, the tech tracked the problem to a solenoid LD had installed under the hood. It was malfunctioning and needed to be replaced. LD sent them one, the Ford tech replaced it, and... voila...everything is finally working at last."
 We now know what a solenoid is, isn't, does and doesn't, but somewhere in this thread (and I may have missed it) was there an explanation WHY this particular caused the problems with the electric steps and the levelers?

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: A very long mystery finally solved
Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 118449
Quote
And I don't know the answer.
Thanks David,
 That would be the type I am used to seeing and have used to isolate coach batteries from starting batteries years back.  LD should be able to tell you what they use it for.  Obviously it is to let power through to something while the engine is on and cut that power when the engine is off.
 Now, is it for coach batteries, steps, power lead to supply 12 volts to a towed vehicle?  Seems to be pretty beefy wire, like battery cables. Also looks like quite a few things hook up to one side of it.  Maybe LD went back to the mechanical isolator for what ever reason?

Thanks, Ramon